Bots...


Pathfinder Online

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Goblin Squad Member

One of the biggest probleams having EVE onlne and its economy are bots ... (markets, mining ...), it seems that ccp does not eradicate the problem because they do not want to or because they can not do it ....

You thought you have to fight bots in online pathfinder.

PD: Sorry for my bad english.

Goblin Squad Member

I think botting goes against the ideas of PFO.
I'm sure they will come up with ways to defeat them.

Goblin Squad Member

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...or supplant bots with PFO's own versions built-in in a manner appropriate to the game. Make Bots useless since, for example, crafters already get NPC hirelings to craft for them while their characters are not active.

Goblin Squad Member

CCP didn't bothered much with bots - last expansion actually invited miners to afk mining and bot mining. There is mechanics for rooting out bots in EVE, but not effective enough. EVE world is dystopia - so this inefficiency is latgely in tune with the world.
PFO, afaik, will be fantasy, with morality rules and consequences. Bots are not only exploits making unfair advantage, but also immersion-breaking soulless mute slaves, which is against River Freedoms! :)
Programs, monitoring same actions repeated again and again in the same tempo or "ping" requests from server can alleviate some problems. But new ideas are in demand now.

Goblin Squad Member

Well, I think, in a way, there are already some built in defenses. I thought I read somewhere where resource gathering sometimes spawns monsters. I could be wrong, but usually bots aren't that good in combat.

CTO, Goblinworks

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We don't want bots, and we'll do what we can to avoid them. Very sophisticated bots can be hard to detect though, and they've been getting more and more advanced.

Our first strategy will making the game systems interesting/complicated enough that it isn't very easy to bot. This should cut down on the number of simple bots to deal with. After that, we'll work on detecting them wherever we can. It will probably always be a battle though.

Goblin Squad Member

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If/when you detect them, don't kick or ban them, put recurring bounties on their head. Bots die, profit is to be made, everyone wins.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

Marlagram wrote:
CCP didn't bothered much with bots - last expansion actually invited miners to afk mining and bot mining.

EVE's design for mining has ALWAYS invited botting. Expansions haven't really changed it that much.

Goblin Squad Member

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There will always be bots and people trying to hack the game in some way. You simply cannot eliminate it. What you can do is:

1) Reduce incentive for your character being awake and active 24/7.
2) Make gathering, crafting and fighting dynamic enough that a simple script can't be as effective as a thinking human being.
3) Less static elements: mobs don't respawn in the exact same spot, trees don't grow back instantly in place of a previous tree, etc.

And if someone still manages to code a bot that acts just like a human and can deal with all of this... it won't be nearly as jarring as the naked people running back and forth in other games. Imagine if there are bots but they are almost undetectable to you unless you try to talk to them. I think that would make it seamless enough that it wouldn't matter if they are there.

Also, please don't buy anything in-game from a third-party site. Many bots are simply run to make a profit. Don't give them money and the problem goes away.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Ironically bots often appear as a "counter" to players who are online 24/7, often but not always, because they are bedridden, home-bound or in some cases even institutionalized. Such players a can be hard to compete with.

User built Bots are of course a very bad thing as they are not controlled as part of the game mechanic and give the bot user unfair advantage.

One option is to limit the time an account can be actively logged in over a 48 hour period. Say a maximum of 20 or 30 hours out of 48.

This would have several effects.

1. reduce the effectiveness/need-for having the bots
2. reduce the risk of game induced necrosis
3. improve the general quality of in-game behavior as people that are logged in 24/7 eventually get very irritable, obsessive and unpleasant to deal with.

Of course 2 and 3 can be easily bypassed by logging in as another character (I wonder how many "guilds" will turn out to be multiple instances of one or two real players?) however every little bit helps.

Goblin Squad Member

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I'd really rather not see the game limit how much time I can spend online. I'm an adult, if I get a long weekend and want to have a gaming marathon, let me. It is not the job of the game, or of Goblinworks to monitor my health.

Scarab Sages Goblin Squad Member

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Dario wrote:
I'd really rather not see the game limit how much time I can spend online. I'm an adult, if I get a long weekend and want to have a gaming marathon, let me. It is not the job of the game, or of Goblinworks to monitor my health.

I think longer online times can be monitored with unobtrusive pop-ups that confirm you are a human, like those captcha things or "which animal is this a picture of?" If the pop-up is not answered, the account is auto-logged off and the very first thing that pops up when you re-log-in with that account, 15 minutes after that log-in is another one. That way, the owner of the bot will have to at least spend some time dealing with it.

Goblin Squad Member

Vandarr Wormwood wrote:
Dario wrote:
I'd really rather not see the game limit how much time I can spend online. I'm an adult, if I get a long weekend and want to have a gaming marathon, let me. It is not the job of the game, or of Goblinworks to monitor my health.
I think longer online times can be monitored with unobtrusive pop-ups that confirm you are a human, like those captcha things or "which animal is this a picture of?" If the pop-up is not answered, the account is auto-logged off and the very first thing that pops up when you re-log-in with that account, 15 minutes after that log-in is another one. That way, the owner of the bot will have to at least spend some time dealing with it.

I also agree id rather the game not limit my time online, I work heavily for 5 days and tend to game heavily for 2. Also I welcome bots, They will feel the sweet sweet sting of my arrow, or my partners blade in their guts

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
...or supplant bots with PFO's own versions built-in in a manner appropriate to the game. Make Bots useless since, for example, crafters already get NPC hirelings to craft for them while their characters are not active.

This, exactly.

I actually have np with bots that do not screw another player. Your version of what screws another player will vary, though, and has been a long-time debate amongst the friends in my current gaming chat channels.

Like I said, your mileage may vary and anyone who does not agree with me is obviously wrong. Now I'm going to go look at funny cat videos.

Goblin Squad Member

Vandarr Wormwood wrote:
Dario wrote:
I'd really rather not see the game limit how much time I can spend online. I'm an adult, if I get a long weekend and want to have a gaming marathon, let me. It is not the job of the game, or of Goblinworks to monitor my health.
I think longer online times can be monitored with unobtrusive pop-ups that confirm you are a human, like those captcha things or "which animal is this a picture of?" If the pop-up is not answered, the account is auto-logged off and the very first thing that pops up when you re-log-in with that account, 15 minutes after that log-in is another one. That way, the owner of the bot will have to at least spend some time dealing with it.

Yeah, I'd rather not have it pop up every fifteen minutes asking me "Are you sure you're a human?" That sounds like a good way to get me killed in a fight.

It sounds like Mark's got the right idea. Deal with the bots as best you can, but accept that you won't get them all, and don't ruin the player experience trying.

Goblin Squad Member

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Zaszamonde wrote:
If/when you detect them, don't kick or ban them, put recurring bounties on their head. Bots die, profit is to be made, everyone wins.

This would be a good idea. A bonus to everyone who reports / takes actions against someone who is later discovered to be a bot by GMs.

My other input would be make it hard to effectively bot on a new/unpaid account. If one trial account harvests 1/10th-1/20th what someone who has owned the game few weeks does because effective harvesting requires a subscription and training then it will be hard for bots to become effective resource farmers.

Add authentication keys so they can't hack accounts and your problem is pretty-much solved. I think part of the purchase cost of this game should be an authentication key that you must activate within a month of game purchase.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:
Zaszamonde wrote:
If/when you detect them, don't kick or ban them, put recurring bounties on their head. Bots die, profit is to be made, everyone wins.

This would be a good idea. A bonus to everyone who reports / takes actions against someone who is later discovered to be a bot by GMs.

My other input would be make it hard to effectively bot on a new/unpaid account. If one trial account harvests 1/10th-1/20th what someone who has owned the game few weeks does because effective harvesting requires a subscription and training then it will be hard for bots to become effective resource farmers.

Add authentication keys so they can't hack accounts and your problem is pretty-much solved. I think part of the purchase cost of this game should be an authentication key that you must activate within a month of game purchase.

Seems like they have it in mind already (I Heard It through the Grapevine blog post)

Authenticators wrote:

Right off the bat, we're hearing a lot of reports that GuildWars 2 players are having their accounts hacked. It is unlikely this is due to poor security on ArenaNet's part; it seems a near certainty that these folks have had their usernames and passwords exposed by keyloggers covertly installed on their computers, probably while buying gold for another MMO from a third-party vendor at some point in the past. Many (most?) players use the same username and password on all their MMO accounts, so once a bad guy has information from any one game, that user's accounts on all other games are potentially compromised.

One solution to this problem is the use of authenticators. An authenticator generates a randomized code that must be input to log into an account along with a password. Without the authenticator code, the account is inaccessible. (In security circles this is called "two-factor security.") The first generation of this technology was a little gizmo that consisted of an LCD screen and a button. Push the button, and the gizmo displays the generated code on the LCD.

Blizzard has been offering these for a while as an add-on to account security. But one downside is that always need your little gizmo when you want to play—if you leave it at a friend's house, you can't log in. And the gizmos aren't free; either the publisher pays for it or you do, but someone has to pay.

Better news is that there's a whole new level of tech coming out now for doing authenticator-style security over your cell phone. Blizzard itself has produced an authenticator app for the iPhone so that you can stop using the gizmo and just use your iPhone instead. There are a couple of other techniques available, too, such as having an email sent to a predefined address, or having an SMS text message sent to a predefined mobile device. Google offers their own authenticator service for Android, iOS and Blackberry; if we decide not to make our own, we could leverage Google's technology. Either way, the cost should be close to zero.

Since we expect authenticators to be in widespread use by our launch, and since most people playing a game online have access to a place to receive an authenticator token, we think that two-factor security is a good way to quickly and easily solve a lot of account security concerns. Therefore, our current plan is to require authenticator use for every Pathfinder Online account from the day we launch the game.

I'm just hoping that the listed methods aren't the only options. Would be neat to have options for email-based, or calling. (Although on rereading and a "spelling error," I noticed SMS text message was there, and I'm good... Until my phone dies.)

Goblin Squad Member

PFO seems already more resistant to botting than all MMOs that I know.

The fact that you don't do the chores yourself but instead let NPCs do it means that you are effectively already "botting".

For example if you want to mine you need to setup a mining camp and the mining will be done by bots. You need to defend the camp, which can be quite hard for a real bot to do.

The only bots that are likely still be useful are the market bots (automatic buying and selling).

Goblin Squad Member

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It's already addressed 24/7 PvP... You see a bot kill them and take thier sheeeet!

Goblin Squad Member

The bounty system should include some sort of human sensing mechanic, think captcha or maybe something with the same sort of effect. That way, people can kill bots without hesitating and they won't get a bounty placed on them. Of course, the person could come back and manually do it.

Things like botting will typically get you a reputation in the game. Since this is such a social game, being ostracized will severely inhibit your ability to play. Perhaps a BOTTER flag could be placed on someone allowing them to be killed and looted without penalty. Of course, only a GM would be able to place this flag manually, otherwise there would be mistakes that would be unfortunate.

Goblin Squad Member

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If a GM catches a bot they should delete their account not give them flags.

Goblin Squad Member

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Deleting accounts may not be reversible, whereas flags can be removed easily. I am 100% for solid and harsh crackdown on bots, but I'm against innocent people having their accounts deleted without warning. For example, if you get into combat and turn on auto attack and run to the bathroom and a GM happens to stop by and ask you if you're a bot and you don't respond, it would be bad if you came back to find your account deleted. If there's no auto attack, think of harvesting a node and that taking time. Or not anything in particular, but if it looks like you're doing something and just before the GM asks you a question you go AFK for whatever reason, it could lead to a misunderstanding. Add to that some people not speaking English very well or possibly being too young to understand that they should respond to a GM, or even someone who is drunk or otherwise under the influence of something and you open up lots of room for unfortunate account deletions to occur. At that point it would become more of a chore for GMs to verify bots because they would have to be 110% sure it was a bot and not something else. If it's something simple as a flag then if there's a mistake it's a simple thing to correct it. Maybe start with a flag and continue monitoring for possible account deletion later.

Goblin Squad Member

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I wish that dealing with bots in tabletop play was as simple as a ping test or a challenge... I wonder sometimes if some of my players are really with me. :)

Sorry for the derail...

Goblin Squad Member

We had one guy that was notorious for not paying attention. He was sitting on the couch near the table where we were playing and the DM says, "Theo, you're hit for 9 damage. How many hit points do you have left?" to which the response was to come over to the table, do some calculations and then declare in surprise, "I'm at negative 35. I think I'm dead." The problem was that in addition to not paying attention, he was in the habit of adding up the damage he took rather than subtracting it from his total. At some point he got lazy and just started writing down the damage without adding as he went, and it all fell apart.

Theo is in our current group and he's much better about paying attention, though he does sometimes fall asleep when the sessions get to 1am or later. We all love him and often make light of the night mentioned above. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Botting does seem like it will be less of an issue in this type of game, but in any MMO it will be an issue.

The main cause of botting boils down to the simple fact that time is money. People either bot so that they can enjoy their actual play time, or they bot so that they can sell their gains to other people who want to spend their limited game time doing other things.

I think the easiest way to deal with bots is simply cornering the market on sold goods. Allow players to buy X amount of gold/goods per week/month with real money from Goblin Works. Keep the price low enough that there isn't really a profit in it for 3rd parties, and ban accounts that buy from 3rd parties.The reason for the weekly/monthly limitation is to help keep the economy more stable.

Since training is time based rather than grind based, the economy side of botting is really all we should have to worry about.

As for punishment, bot accounts should definitely be banned, but they need to be thoroughly investigated. There are times when I just hide my chat window, ignore everyone, and set to a task. I most assuredly don't want to get deleted just because someone thinks I'm ignoring them when I don't feel like being sociable.

Goblin Squad Member

Crash_00 wrote:
The main cause of botting boils down to the simple fact that time is money. People either bot so that they can enjoy their actual play time, or they bot so that they can sell their gains to other people who want to spend their limited game time doing other things...

So the main reason for botting is boring and repetitive gameplay.

Goblin Squad Member

Crash_00 wrote:

...

I think the easiest way to deal with bots is simply cornering the market on sold goods. Allow players to buy X amount of gold/goods per week/month with real money from Goblin Works. Keep the price low enough that there isn't really a profit in it for 3rd parties, and ban accounts that buy from 3rd parties.The reason for the weekly/monthly limitation is to help keep the economy more stable.
...

Perhaps I misunderstand you. You wish to completely eliminate economics from the game? No sales of crafted goods by players, since GW sells everything and then only for cash, and bans anyone else selling anything in the game?

Surely I have misinterpreted your intent.

Goblin Squad Member

Quote:
So the main reason for botting is boring and repetitive gameplay.

I wouldn't say boring and repetitive game play so much as less interesting than what that particular person wants to spend their limited time doing. I, for instance, love to run around gathering materials to either use or sell. I find it fun and entertaining and it's what I prefer to spend time doing.

Player X however, prefers to spend his limited time fighting, but needs those materials. Materials cost gold. So, he can either go out and spend time making gold, go out and spend time harvesting materials, or go to Website Y and buy what he needs.

The more limited a player's spare time is, the more likely that player is to bot (or buy from people that bot) in order to make sure they get enough time in doing what they want.

Quote:

Perhaps I misunderstand you. You wish to completely eliminate economics from the game? No sales of crafted goods by players, since GW sells everything and then only for cash, and bans anyone else selling anything in the game?

Surely I have misinterpreted your intent

By sold goods, I meant in game goods being sold for real life money.

There would still be an economy due to the limitations on how much you could purchase with cash per time period. The preferable way to treat the system would be to only sell gold and let the baselines for everything else fall in order from that.

What you have to realize is that Botting/Selling for real money is pretty much inevitable in any popular MMO. If it is profitable, a 3rd party will start doing it. The bulk of the bots that disrupt other players come from these businesses.

So whether or not gold is going to be sold is not the question, the question is going to boil down to who is selling it and what is it worth.

If Goblin Works sells gold cheap, but puts a limitation on it and monitors for 3rd party buying (and punishes those buying from 3rd parties), everyone is on a roughly even playing field. If there is a completely "legal" way to buy the gold, most people won't rush out to a 3rd party and risk losing an account to get ahead a week faster and a cheap price would keep 3rd parties from being able to profit very well.

That in turn cuts down the number of people that are buying from 3rd parties (which hurts the economy much more) and makes monitoring for it much easier.

It isn't a perfect system, but if the system just ignores the fact that gold is being sold (it will be by someone), then the economy is going to be much further off base.

Goblin Squad Member

MicMan wrote:
So the main reason for botting is boring and repetitive gameplay.

Boring and repetitive gameplay just makes coding bots much easier, as it might be enough to simply just run a macro that presses keys in a certain order.

The main reason for botting is that you are rewarded for playing the game while you are in fact not doing it.

The reason for creating bots may not be the same though, it could simply be for the technical challenge, so no matter what you do there will be people trying to find ways to create bots.

Goblin Squad Member

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Just playing Devil's Advocate...

Why is it bad to have a bot that follows you around and heals you, but okay to make your kid do it?

Answers that appeal to tautology (that is, saying a kid is better than a bot because a kid is better than a bot) don't count.

Goblin Squad Member

Crash_00 wrote:

...

By sold goods, I meant in game goods being sold for real life money.
...

Ah! My understanding is that GW intends to be the sole provider for in-game goods for real-world money.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

To expand on Nihimon's question: Why is it bad to have a bot, but okay to provide a subscription to another player in exchange for their service/time/coin? (PLEX-equivalents being one of the few things that have been confirmed to be included as MTX)

Goblin Squad Member

considering PVP will be unrestricted, it doesn't seem like bots will be much of an issue. To be clear, i'm assuming players who identify a bot will kill it, same with cash for coin advertisements and the like.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
Crash_00 wrote:

...

By sold goods, I meant in game goods being sold for real life money.
...
Ah! My understanding is that GW intends to be the sole provider for in-game goods for real-world money.

\

That is the most likely reason

Goblin Squad Member

Perhaps...when it is not possible to eliminate something considered negative, it seems logical to design the system so it is no longer a negative. Maybe we should be asking what actions a PC could do while "unattended" and how those actions can be made to benefit the PC and the community/game as a whole; without of course removing the incentive to actually play the game.

Just simplify things by institutionalizing botting in a way that benefits the game...and maybe even creating tools for setting AI behaviours for your "unattended" characters.

Goblin Squad Member

KitNyx wrote:
Maybe we should be asking what actions a PC could do while "unattended" and how those actions can be made to benefit the PC and the community/game as a whole...

This is one of the things at the root of my old request to keep PCs in the game world at all times, even when the player is logged off.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
KitNyx wrote:
Maybe we should be asking what actions a PC could do while "unattended" and how those actions can be made to benefit the PC and the community/game as a whole...
This is one of the things at the root of my old request to keep PCs in the game world at all times, even when the player is logged off.

That is exactly what I had in mind when I made the past. An idea that I think was already poo-pooed, but does not mean we cannot think of new ideas.

Goblin Squad Member

what about if you could obtain a spell to use once a day or so to take a killed player and make a giest bot which could mine and stuff for you but it would be killable and such but you could tell it what you want sorta like a pet and would proceed until it is killed

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
KitNyx wrote:
Maybe we should be asking what actions a PC could do while "unattended" and how those actions can be made to benefit the PC and the community/game as a whole...
This is one of the things at the root of my old request to keep PCs in the game world at all times, even when the player is logged off.

Interesting idea. We could provide scripts by triggering a macro record button, perform the action then macro off. Name the script. Then do something else and record the script. Key to specific times and our character goes to the Inn for a meal and then at dusk goes to his room (ala EQ2: thousands of rooms has this Inn)to sleep the game night through.

String them together for your default logged out routine.

If your avatar is attacked, trigger a recorded defensive script.

Interesting way to keep an empty world populated.

Goblin Squad Member

Interesting indeed, but hardly possible. This game will have thousands upon thousands of characters as time goes by, many of them no longer played regularily (by being alts).

Providing precious resources to thes unplayed characters seems wasteful for the benefit this would provide.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

Just playing Devil's Advocate...

Why is it bad to have a bot that follows you around and heals you, but okay to make your kid do it?

Answers that appeal to tautology (that is, saying a kid is better than a bot because a kid is better than a bot) don't count.

One of those has a chance of meaningfull human interaction, the other doesn't.. and if you have a kid/wife willing to do this kind of stuff, good for you.

Goblin Squad Member

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
One of those has a chance of meaningfull human interaction, the other doesn't...

That's actually a very good response. So, how about a kid that doesn't interact with anyone - except a GM when absolutely necessary?

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
One of those has a chance of meaningfull human interaction, the other doesn't...
That's actually a very good response. So, how about a kid that doesn't interact with anyone - except a GM when absolutely necessary?

To me, this is just as bad as a bot, though in a different way. Both of them are having a detrimental effect on human-game interaction. Although in the case of your latest example Nihimon, I think the qualitative difference is that it's this poor kid who either doesn't know how to, or doesn't want to interact and is being made to who's being cheated, at least as much as you could say that other players are cheated by bots.

Goblin Squad Member

The differences are that a kid is a kid, a human being, and not a bot.

The value of a human is not only in their interaction but in who they are, what they experience and remember, and how they will express themselves and interact in the future. A child, so long as their participation is legal and not forbidden, is an asset now and into the future.

Some of my best moments in gaming have been with my kids online.

Goblin Squad Member

To expand on what Being mentioned when he said "interact in the future," I think a big difference is that a kid is processing and learning as he plays, whether it's a task nobody wants to do or not. This game is planned to run for 10+ years and maybe 15+ (EVE is already at the 10+ mark), so that kid will grow up and if he's still playing he'll be able to draw upon those experiences gained when he was "just as bad as a bot." A bot will never be able to do that, so I would have absolutely no problem with someone having their kid harvest or whatever for them.

Goblin Squad Member

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Being wrote:

The differences are that a kid is a kid, a human being, and not a bot.

The value of a human is not only in their interaction but in who they are, what they experience and remember, and how they will express themselves and interact in the future. A child, so long as their participation is legal and not forbidden, is an asset now and into the future.

Some of my best moments in gaming have been with my kids online.

Interesting, so other than the kid is a kid tautology, sounds like you would support bots that you cannot tell are bots. Would you support the legality of "Turing certified bots"? Oh...But, then what about the population of human players that could not pass the Turing test?

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
One of those has a chance of meaningfull human interaction, the other doesn't...
That's actually a very good response. So, how about a kid that doesn't interact with anyone - except a GM when absolutely necessary?

Seems like a pretty silent player to me. Maybe he has fun getting stuff done or doesn't want to RP with others for various reasons. Maybe he is just shy...

Of course, that doesn't mean, that this player doesn't enjoy the game.

I once talked to a WOW player, and he told me that his wife actually enjoys flying arround and collecting herbs for him. To be honest, back when I played way to much (raiding 6 days per week, daily quests, heroics ... about 70 hours each week) that sounded pretty sweet. And of course I sometimes heard of truly demented individuals who actually enjoyed to fish in WOW....

To make our moral problem somewhat more tricky, what if the person your employ/abuse isn't a relative or the kid next door, what if you actually emply someone in, lets say china, to play for you? How is that better than a bot? The interaction will be limited, I once "talked" to one of them ingame.... but I could not read the curly asian writing.

Goblin Squad Member

Bots are scripted and can do whatever they're scripted to do 24x7 without taking a breather. This leads to market imbalances or unfair advantages in some other way.

They can also have 'perfect' combat sense (if scripted as such) which makes then much harder to PK or easier to get PKed by them. That is, they do not make mistakes, use skill synergies perfectly or throw up defenses to skills aimed at them without error and instantly.

Kids on the other hand are dumb* and don't do these things anywhere near as well.

*I'm a parent. I'm allowed to call kids dumb.

Goblin Squad Member

Jiminy wrote:

Bots are scripted and can do whatever they're scripted to do 24x7 without taking a breather. This leads to market imbalances or unfair advantages in some other way.

They can also have 'perfect' combat sense (if scripted as such) which makes then much harder to PK or easier to get PKed by them. That is, they do not make mistakes, use skill synergies perfectly or throw up defenses to skills aimed at them without error and instantly.

Kids on the other hand are dumb* and don't do these things anywhere near as well.

*I'm a parent. I'm allowed to call kids dumb.

You have no idea. I've met kids that can do killer combos and have extremely good reflexes. It's generally true, but there ARE some out there that can embarrass adults.

Goblin Squad Member

I know :)

It was more a 'kids are humans and humans make mistakes' comment. Bots don't.

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