I was perusing the d20pfsrd, when I noticed something odd: several of the prestige classes are now under different, exceedingly generic names.
Just a few examples: the Red Mantis Assassins are now called Crimson Assassins, the "Daggermark Poisoner" is now the Guild Poisoner, and the Prophet of Kalistrade is now the Sanctified Prophet. There are others that had similar but slightly lesser overhauls and others that I know have been changed, but I haven't been able to sort through yet enough to find.
It makes it a substantially more annoying to search through them and tie them to specific campaigns by checking out their associated groups and names and classes. Why was this done? Has Paizo required the name change? Did the site voluntarily change it to make it more "accessible"? What's up? And can it be changed back?
I'm also curious if other, similar changes have occurred, and if there's an easily codified list somewhere I could reference for it.
It was my understanding that Paizo and d20pfsrd had a really good relationship. I hope that hasn't changed somehow.
EDIT: just in case future readers come to this thread and find some of the dialogue slightly confusing and the thread title changed, the original title was "d20pfsrd and Prestige name changes". I kind of hope it changes however to something more like, "d20pfsrd and generic name changes" or something. :)
Red Mantis and Daggermark sound campaign setting specific. Could that have something to do with it?
Here's my understanding of what's happening:
d20pfsrd.com decided to pursue a on-site web store for Pathfinder compatible PDFs. This tripped some of the language in the Community Use license and put them in violation of it, which Paizo notified them of. My guess is that Paizo had to make sure that no precedents were set of companies / groups using Paizo IP and making money. After a discussion, it was decided to undergo the task of Genericizing all proper Golarion names, and switching away from the Community Use license.
The mechanics are still OGL, so the mechanics from Golarion products can still be used.
There are some more details, but I'll let the relevant parties fill those in.
d20pfsrd had been operating under the Community Use Policy, which allowed them to use proper names from Paizo's intellectual propery (such as the Red Mantis, or Desna,) that are not Open Content under the OGL.
However, d20pfsrd recently opened an online store, which makes them a commercial entity and no longer eligible to use the Community Use Policy.
You may be interested in the official Pathfinder Reference Document (PRD), which Paizo maintains directly.
Thanks, everyone. I also just found more of this same discussion in another thread. Sorry for the double threading - I didn't realize the other already held a discussion about it.
Ross: Thank you. I actually do know PRD and use it, however I've just consistently found the d20pfsrd to run much more quickly and be more easily navigable (paizo.com tends to be slow in general*), and, while I like the look of the PRD, sometimes the 'excess' of colors there (strangely enough) wears on my eyes. While the PRD does have several useful elements that d20pfsrd doesn't (such as age tables, which came in handy recently), over-all, I've just enjoyed the latter substantially more because it's just easier to use**; added to that, I highly appreciated d20pfsrd's ability and consistency in having the 3rd Party materials fully integrated, when they were permitted. Please don't misunderstand: I really, really appreciate the existence of the PRD, too, it's just that with this change, unless something changes at the PRD, it's going to be more frustrating to look stuff up rapidly and easily. The d20pfsrd is just typically faster and more convenient. I know that comes off as harsh (harsher than I intend it to sound), and I'm apologize... I'm really just not coming up with a more diplomatic way of saying it at this point. I do appreciate the PRD, though, and I want you to know that!
I'll be looking at it for this project, I suppose.
Anyway, thanks, guys.
By the way, is there any chance that one of the thread titles could be changed to include something about the d20pfsrd name changes in general? That might be a distinct help, here, to cut down on future threads in general. You can change mine, if you like! I don't mind!
* A perfect example: how long it took me to post here. A good thing about this, however is that this is almost certainly because of the amount of traffic the place receives, because the site rocks!
** EDIT: And, you know, in this specific case d20pfsrd has several things that the PRD lacks, such as the classes from Paths of Prestige (and other sources) which I was planning on using to tie the next AP I was running more to Golarion. Also, the layout is more convenient for this kind of thing, as they have stuff grouped by category rather than book. Alas. :/ :)
EDIT 2: And, while I also love the Archives of Nethys too, again, d20pfsrd was a bit easier on the eyes (at least mine), and more easily navigable and more often updated. Still, this basically means I'll be going to all three sites more often than just the one.
Double post because it's so different from the previous.
jreyst (the d20pfsrd guy), if you're going to make it generic, I might suggest making it thematically generic.
"Crimson assassin" has the same color scheme, which is nice, but if someone's looking for "those religious assassins" it might be easily overlooked. "Sacred Assassin" or something might work better. You did a good job with Guild Poisoner, but "Sacred Prophet" might be better as "Coin Prophet" or "Prophet of Wealth" or something that gets the point across better. There are several that, just based off of reading the names, I can't even guess if the class is still there, for example (Sacred Prophet being the first one I discovered, as, when I popped in for my other project, I saw it and I thought, "Hey, that looks cool. Wait... isn't this is a Prophet of Kalistrade?"
Anyway, I want to be clear that while I really don't like d20pfsrd changing this much, I'm definitely not against you guys making a living! Go for it! I wish you all the best. :)
EDIT: I'm not saying, "you're names are awful", I'm just saying that the names vary in usability. If you want it to be a selling point that they're generic, you might want to pair it down to something more generic, but that still gets the point across of what they do/what they are. As it stands, in some cases they're so generic I can't even find them, while in other cases they're strangely reminiscent of the setting but give no hint as to what they really do. Thus the gist of my suggestions.
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@Tacticslion: I fully agree with your suggestions but have to admit that I've been moving *very* quickly trying to make sure the site is in full compliance with the PCL (compat. license) so as to be 100% kosher etc. The name changes were, in some cases, made to resemble their original names, but in some cases that was rather difficult. For example, the Bellflower Tiller PrC is very uniquely flavored to be what it is in Golarion. However, when you strip away the Golarion-specific flavor text I realized that the class is actually much more broad in function beyond what the flavor text implies. To be perfectly frank, previously when I read the name "Bellflower Tiller" and looked at the names of some of the class abilities I passed it over because it looked like "some kind of farmer" or something. With the abilities renamed I looked at it a little more closely and realized its not at all what I thought it was when going by the flavor text.
Long story short, I'm open to suggestions on better names. Anyone who likes to can always email me ideas (jreyst@d20pfsrd.com) or join the fans of d20pfsrd.com FB group, or follow the d20pfsrd.com fb page, or twitter or G+ etc. I'm pretty easy to reach and not opposed to making adjustments as I go so long as its reasonable etc.
Edit Oh and thanks for being so understanding. Yes, I've flaked out between wanting to leave the names reminiscent of their "official" form and making them more indicative of what the class really is (when its advantageous to do so/meaning, when that helps better describe the classes actual functions etc.)
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Yes, while the PRD is an amazing resource, and is a true gift to the players of Pathfinder, my hope is that even with the names of some things changed that d20pfsrd.com will continue to prove useful to its users. Some things change, some for the better, some for the worse. Some will find some of the changes to d20pfsrd welcome and embrace the change with open arms, others perhaps not so much. I'm just hoping there are more of the former than the latter since we'll continue to try to provide the same level of utility for your Pathfinder games we always have.
... While the PRD does have several useful elements that d20pfsrd doesn't (such as age tables, which came in handy recently)...Just because I had to look these up today, it turns out that d20pfsrd.com does have the age tables. They are listed under the Description page:
True, but what I meant was the non-Core races. d20 doesn't have that... yet.
Long story short, I'm open to suggestions on better names. Anyone who likes to can always email me ideas (jreyst@d20pfsrd.com) or join the fans of d20pfsrd.com FB group, or follow the d20pfsrd.com fb page, or twitter or G+ etc. I'm pretty easy to reach and not opposed to making adjustments as I go so long as its reasonable etc.
EDIT: Oh and thanks for being so understanding. Yes, I've flaked out between wanting to leave the names reminiscent of their "official" form and making them more indicative of what the class really is (when its advantageous to do so/meaning, when that helps better describe the classes actual functions etc.)
I'm glad to be understanding! I really do understand what you're doing, and I hope it works out for the best! While I personally don't like the changes (hey, I tend to be very conservative in all sorts of things), I understand them, and can definitely see their ultimate utility (and necessity).
I also really appreciate how open you are to feedback! Again, I don't want to come off as "arg, I hate your ideas", but rather giving (hopefully) constructive critique; often enough naming things is a weakness for me, so I know what it's like, especially under time-pressure. :)
EDIT: and, yeah, the Bellflower Tiller is kind of an obfuscating name. :)
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Yeah, I do get a lot of "ZOMG YOU ARE THE WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD FOR DOING THIS BLAH BLAH BLAH" so the occasional "Hey, do what you gotta do, I get it, and will keep using the site. Maybe not ideal for me but its still cool to have" etc. makes me feel at least a little better lol So, in short, thanks :D
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You keep it up good sir.
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Thanks Dale :D
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For anyone ever curious about the official names of things, don't forget that all of Paizo's published mechanics (though no 3rd party material) can be found on the Archives of Nethys, using the community use policy.
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Right. And all of the mechanics of such things will still appear on d20pfsrd.com, and should still theoretically come up in search results and/or autocompletes in searches, leading you to the pathfindercommunity.net sister site, which has all of the community use content plus all of the iconics from the NPC codex, many statted out at all levels, not just the ones provided in the book. The complete builds of the other levels done much like we did for all of the dragons, building out all age categories etc.
That said, yeah, archivesofnethys is great, most especially if you're trying to focus on what's legal for pfs play etc.