Appropriate? to the River Kingdoms.


RPG Superstar™ General Discussion

Lantern Lodge

I noticed the rules said the archtype has to be appropriate to the River Kingdoms but the examples of ineligble entries are all archtypes tied to something specific that's not in or about the River Kingdoms.

Does this mean that an archtype doesn't actually have to be intwined with the River Kingdoms lore? Merely it has to be something that could, or would likely be found there?

I ask because my better idea would the with the location but isn't built on any lore. Though I imagine being tied lore-wise would be a boon, but if it's not required I think I'd rather send in a more inspired idea then some piece of junk because I couldn't tie anything really cool to the lore.

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I think you have it. They mean that it fits the region but doesn't necessarily preclude being found elsewhere. As an example, a desert nomad would not be appropriate for obvious reasons. A river reed weaver would be appropriate but wouldn't be tied to just the rivers of the area. That would be my understanding.

An archetype that restricts or limits where it can be played to a single area is sad in just the same way as limiting other character choices are sad.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Phloid

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Anthony Adam wrote:
They mean that it fits the region but doesn't necessarily preclude being found elsewhere. As an example, a desert nomad would not be appropriate for obvious reasons. A river reed weaver would be appropriate but wouldn't be tied to just the rivers of the area. That would be my understanding.

I'm still unsure about this and am wondering if the judges could give some sort of clarification.

Round 2 Rules wrote:
The archetype must be suitable for the River Kingdoms of Paizo's Golarion setting.

This line seems to support your thoughts that it just "could be found there."

Round 2 Rules wrote:
RIVER KINGDOMS: The archetype must be something appropriate to the River Kingdoms region of Paizo’s Pathfinder campaign setting. The River Kingdoms is a collection of small city-states and independent towns bound together by a code of justice called the Six River Freedoms. More information on the River Kingdoms can be found in The Inner Sea World Guide and Guide to the River Kingdoms. An archetype that is not appropriate to the River Kingdoms (specifically, one designed for another country such as Cheliax or Osirion) will be disqualified.

But this paragraph implies to me, with the details about the the River Freedoms, and the mention of archetypes for other countries, that the archetypes could be more specifically tied to cities and adventure sites of the River Kingdoms. Or at least in the description. These archetypes would be similar to the way the Winter Witch is tied to Irrisen. Sure, a gaming group could easily transplant it in another arctic region as the abilities don't have anything hard tied to Irrisen or Baba Yaga, but it IS written into the description. This is what I'm assuming the judges will want to see.

But to be sure: Judges, would you like to see the description specifically mention places and organizations of the River Kingdoms, or would you rather the descriptions were generic, allowing the reader to figure out how the archetype fits into the Kingdoms? Is it optional? And if so, is one preferred over the other?

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Public perception and comments should play a big impact.

Does the archetype feel like a natural fit for the River Kingdoms?

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Notice too that the Rustic Druid example mentions the River Kingdoms in its description.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

I replied to a similar question in this post and there is related information in some of the replies to it.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6 aka Core

I think y'all are over-thinking it.

River-snipe Freedom Scoundrel = good

Lawmaster Slavetrader = bad

In other words, ask yourself if it makes sense to originate from the River Kingdoms.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Phloid

Samuel Kisko wrote:

I think y'all are over-thinking it.

River-snipe Freedom Scoundrel = good

Lawmaster Slavetrader = bad

In other words, ask yourself if it makes sense to originate from the River Kingdoms.

No, I don't think it is that simple. I had read Sean's posts on this subject, but the one I missed. is the one that I think makes it more clear. They would prefer that the descriptive text call directly to something in the River Kingdoms. The game mechanics and maybe the name, not so much, so that it can be placed in other settings that have similar organizations and locations.

The descriptive text should place the archetype firmly in the River Kingdoms, but the mechanics could be generic enough to be transplanted in other worlds. Like the Winter Witch I mentioned.

Though not a disqualifying offense, I think it would be a big negative if the entry did not specifically mention a tie to the River Kingdoms.

Your River-snipe Freedom Scoundrel could have a description like this: "The River-snipe Freedom Scoundrel lives on the rivers of the land and is beholden to no ruler. Just as confident on the banks, in the water, or the barge he calls home, he takes what he needs and flows on down stream."

Or it could have a description like this: "Often escaping slavery, the River-snipe Freedom Scoundrel makes his home on the great Sellen and the other waterways of the River Kingdoms. Beholden to no one, he lives and dies by the word of the River Freedoms, taking what he can, but always keeping his word."

I believe they are looking more for the latter.

Note: I wrote these quickly and they are not very good, I know.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6 aka Core

Phloid wrote:
I believe they are looking more for the latter.

I agree.

I look at it like I would writing a resume. You can write a general resume, change the job title, and mass send them out. Or you can write a resume from scratch specifically for a certain job. The later is almost always preferred.

For the original poster, my two cents would be to re-write it a couple times with the River Kingdoms specifically in mind and see what you come up with. You will likely come up with some better than you already have, and perhaps much better.

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O.K. Sean, you are my boss, and I ask you. Do you want something with elements that tie it to the River Kingdoms and it's surrounding regions or not?

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I don't think I need to repeat myself more that I already have. :p

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I have one question. Does flavor text have to explain how the class is unique to the River Kingdoms? Is detailing on that topic necessary with flavor?

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Orcus Of Undeath wrote:
I have one question. Does flavor text have to explain how the class is unique to the River Kingdoms? Is detailing on that topic necessary with flavor?

I think SKR used a better word than "unique": "native". It is best if an archetype is native to the River Kingdoms and I suppose the introductory paragraph is where people are going to be looking for that River Kingdom tie-in. However, if you can imbue River Kingdoms flavor into other parts of the submission as well (such as in an ability name) with minimal distraction, then that would be a good way of producing a cohesive flavorful River Kingdoms Archetype submission.

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Herremann the Wise

Scarab Sages Contributor , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Every year(and maybe usually round two) there's a round that throws people off in the weirdest, most paranoid ways. I contend that how "River Kingdoms" appropriate you are will be judges on a scale like everything else. Have a boring archetype that doesn't follow the normal presentation of archetypes? Doesn't matter how intrinsically River Kingdoms your entry is. Have a fantastic archetypes that excites players and GMs but could be found in any disorganized feudal society? Maybe some won't vote for you and maybe some will. I'll support a great archetype that fits naturally into the RK every time if it's up against a sad archetype that can only originate from the RK. I'm willing to bet most judges have a similar continuum instead of a pass/fail on this issue.

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