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Three key premises for this question.
1. A Barbarian's rage gives morale bonuses to Strength, Constitution, and Will saves.
2. A Courageous weapon increases any morale bonus the wielder receives by half its enhancement bonus.
3. A Furious weapon increases its enhancement bonus by +2 when the wielder is raging.
My question is, do temporary increases to a weapon's enhancement bonus count for Courageous? If a Barbarian wields, for example, a +4 Furious Courageous weapon, does he get +3 Str, Con, and Will over his normal rage, or only +2?
barb gets +4,+4
Courageous makes that +6,+6
The weapon gets and additional +2 to hit and damage while the wielder is raging
so in your example the +4 furious courageous weapon increases his rage bonuses to +6 str and con... and it's a +6 to hit and damage weapon for the duration of the rage.
Not sure how you are getting your interpretation from furious, it doesnt effect the rage, it's triggered BY rage.
+3. The enhancement bonus increased to +6. Half of that is 3.
Ok wait, I think I get it now, that is confusing in a reciprocal way.
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oh man I totally mistook what you were asking for here.
And again the answer is in the reading, I'll bold the part that will give the answer
Furious: This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon. A furious weapon serves as a focus for its wielder's anger. When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal. If the wielder has a rage power that gives a skill bonus while raging (such as raging climber, raging leaper, or raging swimmer), the wielder gains an enhancement bonus to that skill whenever the weapon is wielded or held in hand, even when not raging; this bonus is equal to the enhancement bonus of the weapon (including the +2 when the wielder is raging).
so apply furious first then courageous.... this shouldnt be a weapon for barbarians...to confusing , they cant even read.
so apply furious first then courageous.... this shouldnt be a weapon for barbarians...to confusing , they cant even read.
Technically Illiteracy was removed.
unless you're playing the archetype that can't read =D
Isn't that a Human Druid Archetype
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True Primitive (Archetype)
Isolated and xenophobic tribes that dwell in areas untouched by civilization often see anything from cities and organized settlements as strange, dangerous, and decadent. They gain power from their truly primitive nature; their bodies and spirits are hardened by the wild and untainted existence far from the pathetic softness of so-called civilization. Even when forced to mingle with civilization, the true primitive stays apart in both traditions and trappings.Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A true primitive is proficient with hide armor and armors made from bone. A true primitive is also proficient with bone shields and the following weapons: battleaxe, blowgun, club, greatclub, handaxe, longspear, shortspear, sling, and spear.
Illiteracy: A true primitive cannot read or write, and her superstition about such things leads her to refuse to ever learn to read or write, even if she multiclasses into other classes.
Three key premises for this question.
1. A Barbarian's rage gives morale bonuses to Strength, Constitution, and Will saves.
2. A Courageous weapon increases any morale bonus the wielder receives by half its enhancement bonus.
3. A Furious weapon increases its enhancement bonus by +2 when the wielder is raging.My question is, do temporary increases to a weapon's enhancement bonus count for Courageous? If a Barbarian wields, for example, a +4 Furious Courageous weapon, does he get +3 Str, Con, and Will over his normal rage, or only +2?
The Furious enchantment increases the actual enhancement bonus of the weapon, so Courageous, which is based on the enhancement bonus, takes it into account.
In your example, the morale bonuses would increase by 3, not 2.
so apply furious first then courageous.... this shouldnt be a weapon for barbarians...to confusing , they cant even read.Technically Illiteracy was removed.
no never, I refuse... that was the fun part.
Thanks for the responses, everyone. That's how I was reading it, but my DM was wanting an official ruling from the designers.
But I thought you could not have an enhancement bonus above +5? Does the Furious overrule that?
no never, I refuse... that was the fun part.so apply furious first then courageous.... this shouldnt be a weapon for barbarians...to confusing , they cant even read.Technically Illiteracy was removed.
I can see you role-playing an Illiterate Savage but it locked the Barbarian into a specific type of role.
I like the Barbarian as a Emotion Fueled Wrecking Machine. Not the Illiterate Savage. Especially given that most tribes have some form of writen word even if it was simple runes like the Nords or flowing script like a Franco-Gaul tribe (can't find their name...).
The Effective Enhancement and Actual Enhancement are different things.
But I thought you could not have an enhancement bonus above +5? Does the Furious overrule that?
a bane weapon could give a you s situation where you were +6 or +7 to hit vs. a certain monster, as that feature raises the bonus for that creature.
You can't have a BASE above +5. and no total over +10. Bane, furious whatever ore modifiers, not bases.... it doesnt limit you to having only +3 Bane weapon for example, because a +4 Bane weapon would put you at +6 vs... whatever
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it doesn't over rule it
A magic weapon is enhanced to strike more truly and deliver more damage. Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat.
2 A weapon can't have an enhancement bonus higher than +5. Use these lines to determine price when special abilities are added in.
Furious: This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon. A furious weapon serves as a focus for its wielder's anger. When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal.
you can in theory craft a +5 weapon, then put furious on it (+1) to get a +7 weapon while raging for the cost of a +6.
I personally view the can't have a enhancement bonus higher than +5 as relating to what you can purchase, so that people wouldn't get confused and buy straight up +10 weapons.
It's not perfectly clear that the "can't have an enhancement bonus higher than +5 is only referencing the price table. it's a foot note about pricing of weapons though and not in the actual creation rules.
Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10
This doesn't preclude the possibility of the weapon enhancement going higher due to the special abilities, only in purchasing it higher than +%.
Interesting....I had always assumed that once you hit that +5 threshold that was it.
I think it is mainly do to the Ability only applying in a specific case. Same with Bane.
a class feature is different than a weapon enhancement tho.
IIRC: An Inquisitor with the Anger Inquisition can do the same thing.
Either way it is still not that bad. They will only be getting it a little bit of the day.