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ok so Ive got a sizable group of 8 players playing through carrion crown, the group is led by and Inquisitor who is (For lack of a better word) and extreme zealot who would prefer to burn first and ask questions never, so far ive managed to keep it in check, but his reaction to the townsfolk of illsmarsh led to him getting kicked out of the town before finding out anything
now the other PC's are still in town and are essentialy working for him to dig up what they can, what im worried about is whats he finds out whats going on in the church, hes basicly gonna burn the town down, and kill everyone, and i mean schorced earth, kill their leads and everything, now i can allow him to carry it out, but i wanna avoid that if i can, so any advice i can do to prevent needless slaughter or advice how to work it into the story after he's burnt all the leads to help the story continue?
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What is his alignment? Is he dedicated to a particular deity? Cause if so that deity could send him a fairly strong message that he is being a fart-noodle.
Maybe his spells and special abilities stop working when he does something dumb but come back when he is more calculated and fair in his actions?
Any other PCs in your group who could keep him under control? Paladins & clerics of good gods can be threatened with loss of powers if they don't intervene.
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Sounds about right for an Inquisitor to pull.
(in the Warhammer 40K universe.)
Perhaps take the player aside and voice your concerns? After all, the majority of the "civilians" here have been corrupted in some way or another, and if he's looking for an excuse to go "Exterminatus" on them, there's not much to defend them in the books.
You can still have a creepy/cool mystery in Illmarsh even if you do kill them all. Go for it.
But have them keep this in mind: their goal is to stop the Whispering Way from ushering in an apocalypse. The way they do that is to find the Dark Rider. Therefore, if they take any act that prevents them from finding the Dark Rider, they have committed an evil act, or at least, a shortsighted act.
They (and their deity, presumably) would know this.
Let him. They're hosed if this happens at the wrong time, celebrating if at the right time. I'd suggest a "voice from on high" at his next daily prayers saying "patience first, burn after".
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What is his alignment? Is he dedicated to a particular deity? Cause if so that deity could send him a fairly strong message that he is being a fart-noodle.
Maybe his spells and special abilities stop working when he does something dumb but come back when he is more calculated and fair in his actions?
he's a LG Inquisitor of Iomedae, any suggestions?
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he's a LG Inquisitor of Iomedae, any suggestions?What is his alignment? Is he dedicated to a particular deity? Cause if so that deity could send him a fairly strong message that he is being a fart-noodle.
Maybe his spells and special abilities stop working when he does something dumb but come back when he is more calculated and fair in his actions?
Inform him that he is playing the exact opposite of what Iomedae expects of her Inquisitors.
She doesn't grant powers to the Burners of Mendev for a reason. In fact, evil done in the name of justice, especially when it's done in her name, is one of the top things that pisses her off.
Fanatics that get all Witchfinder General on people and act like Warhammer 40k extras are the exact sort of people Inquisitors of Iomedae are meant to root out of their church.
And that's even before getting into his questionable status as a LG character.
One who casts judgment with no compassion and without any effort to find the truth of things beforehand is no servant of the Inheritor.
The SRD on good alignments: "Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others." I think massacring villages probably doesn't fit that, without some serious lawyering. It sounds like he's gone beyond lawful stupid into lawful sociopath, and Iomedae would immediately strip him of his spells and judgements, and probably send some real inquisitors to set him straight.
That's ok, though. He still gets his 3/4 BAB and his bonus to intimidate.
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Have him arrested for murder by the Ustalavic authorities and executed. End of problem.
Actions have consequences after all.
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The SRD on good alignments: "Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others." I think massacring villages probably doesn't fit that, without some serious lawyering. It sounds like he's gone beyond lawful stupid into lawful sociopath, and Iomedae would immediately strip him of his spells and judgements, and probably send some real inquisitors to set him straight.
That's ok, though. He still gets his 3/4 BAB and his bonus to intimidate.
I previously tried advising this when he was actin up before, but he was quick to point out to me that only paladins lose their powers if they break their tenants. inquisitors, since they can bend the rules, cannot be striped of their powers, is this true? ive looked at the guides and havent found anything that would say they do or do not
and if not, what do i do then?
Bending the rules, I think they can do.
Mass murder is a little beyond bending the rules of Lawful Good, imho.
If you don't want to strip him of his powers, just have word get out. When everyone treats him like a ravening monster and either flees or attacks on sight, he may start wondering why. When parties of adventurers come looking to kill the monster, he'll probably try to explain to you that he's lawful good, and that people should like him.
Don't listen.
Let him figure out a way to rehabilitate himself in the public eye.
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Seriously, nothing you have described of this guy sounds LG. I suggest making it clear that if he keeps down this path he will loose his abilities. In game a dream from his patron could be a good hint along with telling him he finds that he has to pray twice as long to regain spells and abilities. Possibly have a demon approach him with an offer of more power to smite infidels.
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I honestly sounds like the guy is trying to find a loophole to play a character that breaks the rules. He wants to be the shinny good guy yet act like the villain. As others have said while a Inquisitor has a lot more leeway than a paladin or cleric, their powers still come from their god. If they do something their god does not approve of, then no more powers.
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Just hang the PC!!!
No messing around with Iomedae sending lil' warnings, she's too busy with that...just have the legit authorities catch up with him with a rope and a rickety chair.
Or send an Inquisitor of Iomedae at him :D
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Let him burn the village but switch his alignement to whatever you want,but make him a heretic.
Since he is now a heretic, have Lastwall dispatch a group of inquisitor to hunt him. Have a fair and just trial, if he can justify his actions, good. If he can't, I'm sure that the Knight of Ozem will finish this corrupted soul.
Or have the ghost of the burned villagers haunt him.
Or have the ghost of the burned villagers haunt him.
This works. It leaves all the clues intact and forces him to account for his actions to his victims.
Though it seems less creative, a Fall might be one of your better options here. It sends a blatantly clear message to both character and player, reinforces the pecking order of man and god that promotes humility, and leads to atonement storytelling...or a deliberate, prideful, and villainous plunge into a faithless inquisition of all that offends the character's sensibilities.
ok so Ive got a sizable group of 8 players playing through carrion crown, the group is led by and Inquisitor who is (For lack of a better word) and extreme zealot who would prefer to burn first and ask questions never, so far ive managed to keep it in check, but his reaction to the townsfolk of illsmarsh led to him getting kicked out of the town before finding out anything
now the other PC's are still in town and are essentialy working for him to dig up what they can, what im worried about is whats he finds out whats going on in the church, hes basicly gonna burn the town down, and kill everyone, and i mean schorced earth, kill their leads and everything, now i can allow him to carry it out, but i wanna avoid that if i can, so any advice i can do to prevent needless slaughter or advice how to work it into the story after he's burnt all the leads to help the story continue?
Wow!!
i want a player like this for sure...i have a lot of time planning something like this!!
if you read the inquisitor class, at APG, you can notice that the tasks for him are very odd, he must inquisit all clerics and paladins from his deity... and advice if theyre commiting wronginess...
it only hapen to us once:
one paladin of iomedae (pc), vs other iomedae paladin (npc), both were defending theyre owns kingdoms, at theyre believes (for each one, the other one was the bad guy... so: how to solve it? there´s option for smite evil works vs the other one?) so, one friend of mine (my first DM) told me "send an inquisitor to them, asking, judging the wrong good, and never will happen that 2 pal from the same deity work against his order"
So, send him another inquisitor from his deity/order, with knights (4), some fighters (2), a cleric (higher level party) and a wizard (the mob is for challenge the party), inquisit him and judge him. make the attitude for this npc party like a nail in the ass for them.
the cleric is the law at the deity eyes, the pal is the soldier of deity and the inquisitor is just the judge.
Please tell us how it goes!!
The SRD on good alignments: "Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others." I think massacring villages probably doesn't fit that, without some serious lawyering. It sounds like he's gone beyond lawful stupid into lawful sociopath, and Iomedae would immediately strip him of his spells and judgements, and probably send some real inquisitors to set him straight.
That's ok, though. He still gets his 3/4 BAB and his bonus to intimidate.
I previously tried advising this when he was actin up before, but he was quick to point out to me that only paladins lose their powers if they break their tenants. inquisitors, since they can bend the rules, cannot be striped of their powers, is this true? ive looked at the guides and havent found anything that would say they do or do not
and if not, what do i do then?
Ok let's comment on this because it's most relevant.... he CAN bend the rules. So the I'm an inquisitor I can do what I think is best, the ends justify the means IS correct.
However, he can ONLY be ONE alignment spot removed from his god/goddess.
So if he gets too far away in alignment, poof he still looses spells and divine powers (domain/inquisition...judgements etc)
So for example....Iomede is LG. He starts as LG. He can bend the rules of the church IF it furthers the OVERall good and goals of her church.
So.... ARE all the people in this town evil? would the world be better off without them?
If the answer is yes? You have to leave the inquisitor alone. His methods are questionable, but his results, in the end are desired.
But his alignment COULD shift still.... so maybe he isn't LG....perhaps LN. He does this enough, shift him his new alignment.
He doesn't HAVE to agree.
He could shift again depending on how he behaves, if he goes true neutral... losing the law aspect... he loses his powers.
If he goes LE, he loses his powers.
In fact if it were me, and he is just running amok. I would shift him to LE eventually and then have him "Find out" when he's at the business end of a SMITE that actually works on him, via the business end of a paladin that's making him stop.....
However.... it's POSSBILE this character can totally do all he is doing AND be fine.... with a LN alignment AND as a inquisitor of Iomedae, as long as the end DOES justify the means.
And that's NOT left up to interpetation, as long as the result was acceptable (evil people gone etc) the inquisitor can do it.... that's the nature of the class.
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I think my own party debating razing Illmarsh to the ground (starting when they found the shrine to Dagon, and especially after they learned of the Pact). They instead made arrangements for missionaries of Desna and Pharasma to be sent to replace the church.
Legally, I don't think there'd be much repercussion - Illmarsh isn't paying its expected share of taxes, and the NE count of Versex county would dismiss the destruction of Illmarsh as a bandit attack and wash his hands of the place. He's too busy researching forbidden lore to investigate why a bunch of foul-smelling hillbillies got burnt to the ground.
It's doesn't help that about 1/5th of the male townsfolk are going mutate into skum once they "die" of old age. Without the PAct in place, the town's pretty doomed anyways.
But, actually murdering every living soul in the town in clearly an evil act. A significant chunk of the townsfolk aren't actually bad people. Extremely misinformed and misguided (I had my party figure out pretty quickly that most of the townsfolk had no understanding of what Dagon really was), but still neutral.
Inquisitors may get to be more nice/ruthless/orderly/chaotic than their patron diety, but there are still standards.
If he genocides the town (especially to the point of killing, say, Horace Croon or the neutral half-elf alchemist who moved there a few years ago), I'd shift his alignment to lawful evil, have him lose his powers from Iomadae, and give him a dream where Asmodeus offers him a job. After all, your inquisitor is a man who burns with purpose and a terrible fire of justice, so brightly that Iomadae looked upon his terrible visage and flinched. The goddess is soft. But the Lord of the Nine Hells can gladly offer a position to such a determined, thorough, and just individual....
I dunno. murder is bad for business. Im not sure how LAWFUL wholesale murder and arson is.
Asmodeus is first and foremost order through pacification. Not wholesale destruction, he has actually fought against demons, demons do stuff like that.
so there could be an argument for chaotic AND evil... although it's not common to shift to the full on opposite alignment immediately, the slaying of a whole town that doesn't deserve it (if they really ARE innocent) could go in that direction rather quickly.
If there was some kind of rebellion, and mass chaos going on, LE/LN Hell knights would come in to kill a bunch of people to make it stop.
But is that going on here? Or is it "hey they are in a pact/worshipping an evil god, SLAY"
Inquisitors can detect evil, and good and law and chaos.... so.... ummm has he done that.
Worshipping Dagon doesn't mean anything if he you go to mass, say amen, and do it all over again next week. PRACTICING is something else.... are we sacrificing babies at the altar? Or are we just humbly excepting the rule of a twisted god, in a "I didn't know any better way"
How many people there are actually EVIL?
The impression I get is that the town's folk are generally going to be N aligned. They just accept what is going on because they know no better. Redemption would be the key.
Inquisitors root out the bad apples of their faith. Killing because they are (assumed) evil isn't part of the Inquisitor's remit and certainly not LG.
I still maintain murder is murder and "just" laws of the land should apply.
I'm away from my books at the moment, but if the inquisitor is a worshipper of Iomedae, is he even allowed by his class' rules to "inquisite" a town which doesn't worship her in the first place? Isn't his main job to keep an eye on the activities of professed Iomedae worshippers - as opposed to active/in-your-face evangelising?
The impression I get is that the town's folk are generally going to be N aligned. They just accept what is going on because they know no better. Redemption would be the key.
Inquisitors root out the bad apples of their faith. Killing because they are (assumed) evil isn't part of the Inquisitor's remit and certainly not LG.
I still maintain murder is murder and "just" laws of the land should apply.
Ah, but the "just" laws of the land are very relative in Ustlav, and can change radically based on where you are. Some of the regions are practically run by evil cults, while in Barstoi damn near everything, up to and including being a spellcaster who isn't part of Pharasma's church, is punishable by death. I suspect Count Neska of Barstoi would also make being a practicing Pharasmin punishable by death, if he felt he'd win the resulting civil war.
Also, Illmarsh is an entire town of demon worshippers (even if most of them don't actually know what a demon is) who trade their daughters to immortal evil fishmen (even if most didn't actually know it was fishmen) in exchange for wealth and protection.
If Illmarsh was located in Caliphas county, Kavapesta County, the Palatinates or other regions that actually have standards and its true nature was known, the lawful rulership (Palatine Council, Count Galdana, Prince Ordranti, etc.) would destroy the place themselves. I don't think they'd kill every man, woman, and child, but they wouldn't let the town keep existing. Hence, I don't feel destroying Illmarsh in of itself to be an evil act. It's the "leave no survivors" bit that's more worrisome.
However, Illmarsh is in Versex, and in Versex the law is pretty much whatever the most influential person in a town says it is. Count Lowls does not care what's actually going on in the county as he continues his studies into forbidden lore. The magistrate of Thrushmoor might care that Illmarsh burned to the ground and perhaps send some people from the Sleepless Agency to investigate it, but he's more concerned with trying to overthrow Count Lowls.
Illmarsh is an out of the way shithole in an entire region that's a shithole. The other towns in Versex aren't going to have much more to say to Illmarsh's loss than "good riddance, and by the gods did those people smell bad."
Whatever mortal law the inquisitor would answer to in Versex would be laughable, and probably not a match for a L11 inquisitor.
The inquistor's ticked-off goddess, however, represents an authority he really, really needs to be listening to. Being an inquisitor might give him some leeway, but it doesn't not give him a license to indiscriminately slaughter the relatively innocent. Yet...
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/i nquisitor.html#heretic-%28archetype%29
Apparently, a fallen inquisitor can actually shift to the Heretic archetype and continue getting spells. I find that hilarious - your genocidal inquisitor could actually keep his powers and nominally still be an inquisitor of Iomadae, apparently keeping and drawing his powers through his own utter obsession. The heretic swapping out Monster Lore for Lore of Escape is clearly a downgrade but hey. He can continue being an inquisitor of Iomadae, sort of like those fans who send celebrities dead animals. The devotion's there; but something has gone terribly, terribly wrong.
People seem to be trying ti limit the scope of an inquisitor the Real life meanings.
the Inquisitor is a monster hunter and adventurer, there are plenty of NPC's to police their faith. the PC doesn't have to get bogged down with "those are goblins not of my faith, and as such i must leave them be" not such thing exists.
This tread gave me a real nightmare of my own.