Help with tattoo magic for flavor and functionality!


Homebrew and House Rules


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The cost to CREATE tattoo magic is effectively x2 since it is "slotted"
RAW:

But tattoo scroll goes out of its way to mention:
RAW: "A spell tattoo has a MARKET PRICE four times as much as an equivalent scroll."

I just wanted to be sure this is true before going further.
1) If I buy a level one tattoo scroll it's 25X4 = 100
2) If I create that same tattoo it's 12.5X2 = 25

It's nice to not have to pull out a scroll, but...
RAW:
That tattoo magic has to be seen and touched in order to be used.

Tattoo magic has the following slots
RAW: "Tattoos may be inscribed on the following slots: belt, body, chest, feet, hands, head, neck, shoulder, ring (up to two), or wrist."

If we compare tattoo magic with a slotless wondrous item;
The cost is the same.
Tattoo's have conditions to use them, touch and sight vs. usable from backpack with out hands.
Tattoo's have the slotless cost yet have a slot limitation :(
Tattoo's can't be easily unequipped from your character. (only advantage)
Tattoo's can't be shared. (realistically can't be sold either)

WHAT I NEED
I need to be able to make probably 50 tattoo scrolls, but I have only 4 maybe 6 slots. hands, wrist, ringx2

(A nice GM might rule the "up to two" ring exception was only to prevent 5 per hand, rather then imply it's the only slot you get two of.)

I need help breaking this a little so that I can be a normal scroll carrying caster (20+ scrolls), but hopefully use something cool like tattoo's

My problem with tattoo magic is it takes a feat to do what wondrous magic item creation can already do... and aside from the condition of using a non spellcraft skill to craft, it's worse or redundant.

I am close to opening up a grease storm on my GM and showing up with 50 slotless enema scrolls castable strait from my **** :(

Game is Monday for those who can help me quickly :D

Thanks for reading,
Juke


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well is a GM i have made a rule that if something uses a slot but the person wants it not to us a slot he must pay twice the cost. so lets say a ring of pro +1 it cost 2k but if he wants it to not take a ring slot he would have to pay 4k. the best thing for you to do is ask your gm if he will do something close to what I said.

Dark Archive

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RAW, getting more magic tattoos of any kind than you have slots for them isn't going to happen. So if you must stick with RAW, the most you can have is 11, and you'll need a mirror to use the ones on your head and neck. 50 is never going to happen.

If your GM is okay with a few house rules, propose some or ask how he'd do it. The items are already effectively slotless, but have a restriction on total number mainly (I assume) to keep people from overloading their body with magic items (although there is also a finite space to put tattoos). That's technically not what you are doing here, since you are aiming at spell tattoos specifically and not any other kind. Opening up a general rule allowing you to ignore the slot restrictions should apply ONLY to the use of spell tattoos and not any other type of tattoo to maintain this balance.

All that said, I'd go with Heaggles suggestion to simply double the cost of the Spell Tattoos to make them effectively slotless.


Yeah spell tattoos already are x2 cost slotless wondrous items though.

I am attempting to use existing rules, but If I changed it from "Tattoos" to "Elemental body runes", VOILA! All I need is wondrous item creation feat, and gold to pay x2 for slotless and I could basically have no limit, and no use restriction.

Obviously with this method the GM is more entitled to step in on your magic item creation parade and start laying down guidelines since no specific cases exist, but RAW you can use as many slotless items as you can afford/have time to make.

Am I being unreasonable in assuming the x2 cost is enough of a restriction to stop magic item stacking?
(It is for example even LESS expensive to just stack a slotted item with additional abilities at x1.5!)

You could have gloves of a,b,c,d,e,f,g,run out of letters,zzz and it would be a lot cheaper then making a slotless item for each of these glove qualities. I think I am gonna go with heaggles and use wondrous item feat RAW, as Dust Raven said I am not being overly abusive with paying extra for my scrolls to be cool.

Any strong intelligent opinions are welcome to change my mind on this matter.


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It think Inscribe Magical Tattoo work fairly well.

In your comparison of Tattoos and Slotless Wondrous items, I belive you forgot a couple of benefits the tattoos got:
- Inscribe Magical Tattoos can also create scroll's thus doubling up for another feat.
- Unlike what you wrote, Magical tattoo's don't need to be touched or seen. This limit affects only Spell Tattoos, which are comparable to scrolls
- While Spell Tattoos need a hand to touch them, compared to a normal scroll you don't have to spend an action to find it first.
- The standard tattoos also allow some metamagic abilities (still and silent) which are unavailiable for wondrous items.

All in all, I can see a few improvement compared to slotless wondrous items (cannot be removed, and is 'on' even at night). Additionally, while more expensive, the Spell Tattoos is better than ordinary scrolls.

Stacking with the normal items slots, the tattoos are almost effectively slotless. I've never seen anyone carrying around more even close to 11 slotless items, so the amount of slots should be efficient, unless you are trying some thing extreme :-)

I am not getting your Elemental Body Runes idea... Do you suggest to make spell completion items with Craft Wondrous Items? If that is the case, Inscribe Scroll seems like a wasted feat in your games.

A possible solution for you, is to ask your GM to allow: Wand Tattoos. Instead of having scrolls on your body, infusing more uses per spell into your tattoo.

Dark Archive

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Juke wrote:

Am I being unreasonable in assuming the x2 cost is enough of a restriction to stop magic item stacking?

(It is for example even LESS expensive to just stack a slotted item with additional abilities at x1.5!)

In my opinion, yes you are being unreasonable. First of all, RAW specifically states what you can do with magical tattoos, and a spell tattoo doesn't provide any exceptions. Second, you are still talking about magic items which cannot be taken from you except by extreme circumstances. Other items may be cheaper (slotted or not), but even a poor pickpocket has a chance to rob you of them.

Filling your body with unlimited scrolls should cost a LOT, if it is allowed at all. I personally would not allow it and would suggest you just used scrolls. For flavor you could have the scrolls be filled with strange runes instead of standard magical writing (whatever that may be) but they'd function just like scrolls.


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The spell tattoos might be a bit expensive but the other tattoos have their own slots that can be had in addition to normal slots and can't be stolen so I think pricing them as slotless is ok.

What I would like to know is how tattoos work that duplicate items that have to be taken off to work like the sleeves of many garnemts.
Normally you take them off and put them back on to change the looks of your clothing. Can you make those into a tattoo and turn them on and off instead or are you stuck with looking as if wearing the exact same clothes from the moment on that you get the tattoo?

Dark Archive

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Umbranus wrote:

What I would like to know is how tattoos work that duplicate items that have to be taken off to work like the sleeves of many garnemts.

Normally you take them off and put them back on to change the looks of your clothing. Can you make those into a tattoo and turn them on and off instead or are you stuck with looking as if wearing the exact same clothes from the moment on that you get the tattoo?

What specific item are you referring to? Maybe I've just missed it but I can't think of any items you have to take of then put back on to change their effects. The Hat of Disguise, for example, need not be taken off to alter the appearance it provides.


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I've successfully done this before. Treat it as a seperate crafting feat with the required feat Craft Wondrous Item. Tatoo's prices are as unslotted wondrous items (2X price).

Its simple and elegant and never broke game mechanics.

You could essentially do the same thing with Wondrous items, except that it's a lot harder to remove Tattoos.


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Dust Raven wrote:
Umbranus wrote:

What I would like to know is how tattoos work that duplicate items that have to be taken off to work like the sleeves of many garnemts.

Normally you take them off and put them back on to change the looks of your clothing. Can you make those into a tattoo and turn them on and off instead or are you stuck with looking as if wearing the exact same clothes from the moment on that you get the tattoo?
What specific item are you referring to? Maybe I've just missed it but I can't think of any items you have to take of then put back on to change their effects. The Hat of Disguise, for example, need not be taken off to alter the appearance it provides.
"sleeves of many garments wrote:

These translucent cloth tubes easily fit over their wearer’s arms.

The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other non-magical set of clothing. These new clothes fit her perfectly and are always clean and mended unless she specifically designates otherwise. When she removes the sleeves, her clothes revert to their original form.

They only cost 200g, so 400 as a tattoo. But as you can't remove the tattoo I wonder if you could turn it off instead. Because wearing the exact same garments forever could get boring at some time.


HaraldKlak
"I am not getting your Elemental Body Runes idea... Do you suggest to make spell completion items with Craft Wondrous Items? If that is the case, Inscribe Scroll seems like a wasted feat in your games."

Scrolls, potions, wands, etc do not take up a slot, so effectively they cost half as much as a slotless wondrous item that does the same.

RAW:
CRB page 553
"Refer to Table 15-29 ... "
Nowhere does it say that you cant create a glove that acts just like a wand, potion or ring etc.

So wondrous item wins except against craft staff.
And maybe brew potion because potions specifically allow you to use it on other people even when unconscious. A glove could not cast a spell of range personal on someone else, but a potion effectively can (if they are unconscious/ AKA helpless). Not sure when you would need to use a range personal spell on an unconscious person, but it's a potion only ability.

Other craft feats allow you to repair magic items of that type.
There are a few examples of items that have no cost rules. Items that give you a feat, like meta magic rods for example, can't be duplicated with out the GM stepping in for a cost rule.

Examples of wondrous items owning other magic creation feats.
Ring of protection +1 craft cost 1Kgp
Glove of protection +1 craft cost 1Kgp
Gem of protection +1 craft cost 2Kgp

Potion of cure light wounds CL1 craft cost 25gp
Glove of healing(use activated) craft cost 25gp
Gem of healing(use activated) craft cost 50gp

+1 Armour enhancement on base material armors craft cost 500gp.
Gloves of Armour enhancement craft cost 500gp
Gem of Armour enhancement craft cost 1000gp

Scroll of magic missile CL1 craft cost 12.5
Missile glove CL1 craft cost 12.5 (glove is consumed)
Missile gem CL1 craft cost 25 (gem is consumed)

You get the idea, perhaps this needs fixing, but it is just meant to be governed by your GM. RAW give him a GUIDE to price things out, and most GMs, if allowing the CRB RAW, will just tell you to use the table given on page 550.

I can agree that because wondrous items must be items, I can't use that feat to create body runes, and thus runes would use the tattoo rules.


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You can put additional tattoos on unused body areas at double cost, like your **** cheeks. Do you have to uncover them to use them?
The slot rules apply to how many active items you can wear. Space is a real issue, so since such a complex tattoo would cover the palm or back of the hand you can wear only 2 on a hand.


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if we are saying they are runes that are tattooed on you it depends on the size they have to be, lets say they have to be the size an quarter then how much could you put on your hand, but if they are the size of an CD. If i was you I would talk to my GM and ask how large each tattoo has to be.


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