If I recall correctly, Emerald Spire will be available to the general public even after the KS, just like Thornkeep. Citation needed of course.
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...if you take the MMO out of the picture you could still solely back this for the SuperDungeon and get some great value at the same time.You can't take the MMO out of the picture because the whole point of the kickstarter is supposed to be the MMO (and the point isn't even to make the MMO, but to accelerate the schedule). If you did take the MMO out, you're left with a million dollar kickstarter for some PDFs and a project Paizo could pull off without kickstarter if they really wanted to.
-Skeld
Question asked on the paizo blog.
This product is likely to be made either way isn't it?Someone from Paizo please let us know what the whole story is here. I really have zero interest in supporting a video game I will never play.
James Sutter said, "Nope! While it's true that if the Kickstarter succeeds and we make the book, we have the option to publish it as well farther down the road, a book like this is still a HUGE expenditure of time, money, and talent--hence the reason we haven't done it before. If the Kickstarter doesn't succeed, the incentive to do all that extra work on top of our normal product schedule drops through the floor.
If you want a superstar megadungeon, support the Kickstarter. Every person who signs up makes the book bigger, and gets you more bang for your buck! It's also one of the few times when we're letting the fans directly set the product specs. So by donating enough, it would theoretically be possible to get a 300-page hardcover dungeon book for just $100, with the side benefit of knowing that you're also getting every Paizo developer's weekends for several months. :D"
Lisa Stevens aslo replied to that question, "This product will ONLY be made if we reach the $1 million funding goal for this Kickstarter. None of the print products will be made. Could we eventually do a much smaller Fort Inevitable sourcebook? Sure. But it would be something like 32 pages and wouldn't include a Superdungeon with an all-star cast of authors. The ONLY way that is getting made is if we get our funding."
If I recall correctly, Emerald Spire will be available to the general public even after the KS, just like Thornkeep. Citation needed of course.
I dont have a citation, but I'm sure that's correct. However, it's likely that (if you're looking to buy everything in the $100 print pack add-on) it will cost you considerably more if you wait. This is the cheapest option you're likely to see, even if you have zero (or negative) interest in the MMO.
FWIW, I can fully understand those who dont care about the computer game feeling put out by this being appended to the MMORPG kickstarter - I'm not trying to argue the point, just to make it clear that it is a really good deal (and becomes even better if you want the PDF superpack and/or the minis).
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...if you take the MMO out of the picture you could still solely back this for the SuperDungeon and get some great value at the same time.You can't take the MMO out of the picture because the whole point of the kickstarter is supposed to be the MMO (and the point isn't even to make the MMO, but to accelerate the schedule). If you did take the MMO out, you're left with a million dollar kickstarter for some PDFs and a project Paizo could pull off without kickstarter if they really wanted to.
-Skeld
I like how you ignored the whole rest of the post. I should have phrased that part better to read:
...if you want to ignore the MMO you could still solely back this for the SuperDungeon and get some great value at the same time.
I didn't ignore the rest of your post, I just quoted the relevant portion. Changing the wording to "ignore" doesn't change the point I was trying to make: it doesn't make sense to try and motivate people to invest in a kickstarter by telling them to ignore the point of the kickstarter.
-Skeld
it doesn't make sense to try and motivate people to invest in a kickstarter by telling them to ignore the point of the kickstarter.
-Skeld
I dont really follow. I figured the point was that there's a sensational deal being offered for TTRPGers: $200 nets you a whole bunch of PDFs, nine repainted minis from wizkids, two unpainted lead minis from reaper, a 144+page hardcopy + PDF, half a dozen flipmats, a novel and a deck of cards. (You'll also get a bunch of MMORPG stuff to ignore).
It makes sense to point that out doesnt it?
I dont agree with suggestions that a TTRPGer who decides not to support it is "wrong", spiteful or anything else. Nonetheless - there may well be enough goodies there for it to be worth supporting, no matter what one's views on the computer game (there is for me).
If I recall correctly, Emerald Spire will be available to the general public even after the KS, just like Thornkeep. Citation needed of course.
*IF* the Kickstarter makes its goal.
If the Kickstarter fails, there will be no book or flipmats, etc., to sell to anyone at any time.Lisa Stevens has been quoted stating this already.
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it doesn't make sense to try and motivate people to invest in a kickstarter by telling them to ignore the point of the kickstarter.
-Skeld
I dont really follow. I figured the point was that there's a sensational deal being offered for TTRPGers: $200 nets you a whole bunch of PDFs, nine repainted minis from wizkids, two unpainted lead minis from reaper, a 144+page hardcopy + PDF, half a dozen flipmats, a novel and a deck of cards. (You'll also get a bunch of MMORPG stuff to ignore).
It makes sense to point that out doesnt it?
I dont agree with suggestions that a TTRPGer who decides not to support it is "wrong", spiteful or anything else. Nonetheless - there may well be enough goodies there for it to be worth supporting, no matter what one's views on the computer game (there is for me).
Exactly!
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i would like the book also, but the truth is theres no way im paying that much to get it when i have no intrest in anything else in the project..if there kickstarter was for a hard copy of emrald spire i would have backed it on day one
If I recall correctly, Emerald Spire will be available to the general public even after the KS, just like Thornkeep. Citation needed of course.*IF* the Kickstarter makes its goal.
If the Kickstarter fails, there will be no book or flipmats, etc., to sell to anyone at any time.Lisa Stevens has been quoted stating this already.
Hate replying to myself, but I thought of this too late.
There *may* be such a book if the Kickstarter doesn't reach its goal. But it would not be as big, or have the lineup of authors on this version.
I am not trying to convince anyone to pledge if they do not want to, or cannot pledge. What I am doing is trying to set realistic expectations for people saying "I can buy it later".
i would like the book also, but the truth is theres no way im paying that much to get it when i have no intrest in anything else in the project..if there kickstarter was for a hard copy of emrald spire i would have backed it on day one
Yeah, it's not such good value if you just want the book. (Obviously the more you ignore in any given pledge or add-on, the less valuable it is).
I'm not suggesting everyone should be involved, I just think they should be aware what the value is of the TTRPG goodies they're passing up. Sometimes it appears people think this book/flipmat/novel/card pack is worth only $60 or something and that they're being forced to put $40 towards an MMORPG. In fact, the total value of all the goodies is much more than $100 (and those who wait until after the kickstarter, presuming it funds, who then try and get all the stuff will end up paying more).
I'm with you though - I'd pledge for a Golarion megadungeon kickstarter in a heartbeat (or for an Absolom boxed set or any number of other special items for that matter)
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The absolom box set is a great idea..i miss the days of the old box sets with alot of goodies in there..i know that cost is the reason for not making many today..but i would pay more for something that gave the value..the beginner box set is a perfect example
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I just figured people interested in the Emerald Spire book, would also be interested in the flip-mats, and the Tales book and the campaign cards, the minis and all the PDF's
This is why I thought more PnP players would be interested in helping get this thing going and pass the goals and make an awesome super dungeon! Even if you aren't backing it for whatever reason I would hope you would spread the word to your fellow tabletop players as they may be interested! The more backing we can get the better the dungeon gets for everyone, both the people getting the book immediately and the people who plan to try and buy the book later at a higher price.
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The price of the Thornkeep book is much lower than the pledge level needed to get it in the last kickstarter. And even if it turns out to be more expensive, I still get 15% off through my AP subscription. I'm not really interested in the novel or the flipmaps.
Maybe this stance will prevent the book from being made. But at this point I'd rather support Razor Coast.
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it doesn't make sense to try and motivate people to invest in a kickstarter by telling them to ignore the point of the kickstarter.
-Skeld
I dont really follow. I figured the point was that there's a sensational deal being offered for TTRPGers: $200 nets you a whole bunch of PDFs, nine repainted minis from wizkids, two unpainted lead minis from reaper, a 144+page hardcopy + PDF, half a dozen flipmats, a novel and a deck of cards. (You'll also get a bunch of MMORPG stuff to ignore).
It makes sense to point that out doesnt it?
There's nothing wrong with pointing that out. I still don't know what's wrong with saying that I'm not interested in the MMO and don't feel the need to support the kickstarter regardless of what TTRPG carrots get dangled in front of me.
I dont agree with suggestions that a TTRPGer who decides not to support it is "wrong", spiteful or anything else. Nonetheless - there may well be enough goodies there for it to be worth supporting, no matter what one's views on the computer game (there is for me).
Thanks. This can be a tough board sometimes when you don't support the majority opinion or are critical of a decision Paizo has made.
-Skeld
There's nothing wrong with pointing that out. I still don't know what's wrong with saying that I'm not interested in the MMO and don't feel the need to support the kickstarter regardless of what TTRPG carrots get dangled in front of me.it doesn't make sense to try and motivate people to invest in a kickstarter by telling them to ignore the point of the kickstarter.
-Skeld
I dont really follow. I figured the point was that there's a sensational deal being offered for TTRPGers: $200 nets you a whole bunch of PDFs, nine repainted minis from wizkids, two unpainted lead minis from reaper, a 144+page hardcopy + PDF, half a dozen flipmats, a novel and a deck of cards. (You'll also get a bunch of MMORPG stuff to ignore).
It makes sense to point that out doesnt it?
Yeah, I agree. It's a tough line to walk between enthusiast and evangelist. Apologies if I inadvertently crossed it. :p
I dont agree with suggestions that a TTRPGer who decides not to support it is "wrong", spiteful or anything else. Nonetheless - there may well be enough goodies there for it to be worth supporting, no matter what one's views on the computer game (there is for me).Thanks. This can be a tough board sometimes when you don't support the majority opinion or are critical of a decision Paizo has made.
-Skeld
no worries. My interest is in telling you about all the cool stuff, not telling you off for not buying it. :)
Questions of preference and opinion don't have a right answer.
The price of the Thornkeep book is much lower than the pledge level needed to get it in the last kickstarter. And even if it turns out to be more expensive, I still get 15% off through my AP subscription. I'm not really interested in the novel or the flipmaps.
I agree it's not a cheap way to get just the hardcover. It's the added goodies that make it a bargain.
The absolom box set is a great idea..i miss the days of the old box sets with alot of goodies in there..i know that cost is the reason for not making many today..but i would pay more for something that gave the value..the beginner box set is a perfect example
I haven't given up hope, but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe one year it'll be their big "special release".
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The price of the Thornkeep book is much lower than the pledge level needed to get it in the last kickstarter. And even if it turns out to be more expensive, I still get 15% off through my AP subscription. I'm not really interested in the novel or the flipmaps.
Maybe this stance will prevent the book from being made. But at this point I'd rather support Razor Coast.
As a asubscriber to the Tales line, I don't need a second copy of the novel.
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[...]i miss the days of the old box sets with alot of goodies in there[...]
Alot of Goodies? Man, I wish I knew Alot of Goodies. I imagine it wearing a Santa hat and sort of a miniature Santa suit. It's times like this that I wish I could draw.
More seriously: I'm not interested in all the stuff listed at the $100 level. The $15 pledge level, giving the Emerald Spire PDF, may be more my speed. I'll have to think on it.
As a asubscriber to the Tales line, I don't need a second copy of the novel.
Just as information for those looking to pledge, rather than in response to you directly:
Those of us who get one via the kickstarter won't be sent one as part of our subscription.
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More seriously: I'm not interested in all the stuff listed at the $100 level. The $15 pledge level, giving the Emerald Spire PDF, may be more my speed. I'll have to think on it.
That's what I backed. Really have no interest in the actual MMO. The RPG superpack or whatever might be tempting if I didn't already own anything of interest to me in it. And the print RPG package seems a little steep for what you are getting.
Assuming it gets funded, and I like the PDF of Emerald Spire enough, I might get a copy of the print version when it's made available to the non-Kickstarter folks.
More seriously: I'm not interested in all the stuff listed at the $100 level. The $15 pledge level, giving the Emerald Spire PDF, may be more my speed. I'll have to think on it.That's what I backed. Really have no interest in the actual MMO. The RPG superpack or whatever might be tempting if I didn't already own anything of interest to me in it. And the print RPG package seems a little steep for what you are getting.
This. I don't order anything but PDFs - I can't have hard copies shipped to my current location at this time.
CEO
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My only issue with raising funds for the MMO is if it takes Paizo's great writers away from writing for the product-lines to which I subscribe.
That won't happen. Very different animals, PnP RPG products and MMOs. Goblinworks will be using folks who have made MMOs in the past to do their writing for the MMO. We will be hoarding greedily the authors who write our PnP products. It isn't like we are overflowing with authors.
-Lisa
I caved. $35 from me, to you Paizo.
Lisa
if your still watching the board..can we please get a box set sometime in the future lol