It is not Open Content, which is why it is not on the third-party d20pfsrd.com site. I've also removed it from the post above.
It is not Open Content, which is why it is not on the third-party d20pfsrd.com site. I've also removed it from the post above.
Hi Liz,
As a third party publisher I would like to seek clarification on this. According to the Second Darkness: Children of the Void it defines Product Identity and Open Game Content as follows:
Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, language, incidents, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.
Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the contents of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a
Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may be reproduced in any form without written permission. To learn more about the Open Game License and the d20
System License, please visit wizards.com/d20.
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The mechanics of a skymetal like Noqual are open game content because they are based on existing game mechanics and if you develop something from existing mechanics you can't take something that is open and make it closed.
Does Paizo consider the word "noqual" to be a proper name as defined by product identity? Other materials like "adamantine" are not considered proper names? Nor would "cold iron" or "alchemical silver".
In order to publish in support of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game system I need to make sure I understand the rules and I missed what was removed.
The material in the Second Darkness volume does not contain any mechanical information—only world flavor information (which would not be open content). I'll double check with the Powers That Be regarding the information as presented in the Shattered Star volumes.
The material in the Second Darkness volume does not contain any mechanical information—only world flavor information (which would not be open content). I'll double check with the Powers That Be regarding the information as presented in the Shattered Star volumes.
Noqoal has its mechanics in the second darkness because players can find it and get stuff made with it.
Thanks for checking.
Probably would be better to have said, "The article in which I briefly looked over before running out the door didn't have mechanics on my lookover." :P
Hmmmm, it appears to me Noqual is similar to Mithral in mechanics. I would have figured the data regarding Noqual on page 19 of Children of the Void would be open content as it is one more piece of equipment (special material equipment). Not the Golarion fluff surrounding it, just the mechanics.
Of course, I dont know much about IP.
- Gauss
The mechanics are *almost certainly* Open Game Content, unless Paizo changed their policy uniquely for just that one book (unlikely.)
My expectation is that either Noqoal is considered a Proper Name like an Npc name and its Closed Content. Or Naqoal is a common name like adamantine and its mechancis, which would make it open content.
Hmmmm, it appears to me Noqual is similar to Mithral in mechanics. I would have figured the data regarding Noqual on page 19 of Children of the Void would be open content as it is one more piece of equipment (special material equipment). Not the Golarion fluff surrounding it, just the mechanics.
Of course, I dont know much about IP.
- Gauss
What I'm really surprised about is how much non-mechanical stuff from the Classic X Revisited line is actually open game content, including the part about those monsters in Golarion. I was shocked to see all that on d20pfsrd, since it seems like something that would ordinarily be flavor information and closed.
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Rogue Eidolon: The kind of content you're referring to actually is NOT Open Game Content. It remains the product identity of Paizo. We were only able to use it because we were operating under the terms of the Community Use Policy. Now that Paizo considers d20pfsrd.com a commercial entity since the opening of the estore we are no longer allowed to use that content and is why we are working as fast as we can to remove it now. Not to fear however, one of the other collaborators on d20pfsrd.com has volunteered to host the removed content on a separate site that I, John Reyst, am not an owner of, and which would therefore allow it to operate under the terms of Community Use Policy as d20pfsrd.com had done before now.
What other skymetal mechanics are out there? Source and page numbers only please. (Just in case).
- Gauss
If the mechanics are declared as Open Content, then yes, they can be used elsewhere—it's whether or not that they are Open is what's in question.
Gah. Unless Paizo changed their policy recently every book they've ever released has had the same OGL policy: All mechanics are Open Game Content, all fluff (proper nouns/names etc.) are not. The question here is the classic one of "What if the name of the item is a proper noun/name/made-up word?" By normal assumptions it is Product Identity and therefore NOT OPEN GAME CONTENT, however, by appearing in the NAME area of the item, my understanding is that the word then becomes Open Game Content BUT ONLY WHEN USED IN THAT SAME LOCATION, i.e. referring to the name of the <thing> For example, if something was called "The Mask of Alakabooboo" and Alakabooboo was a known NPC in the world of Golarion, and therefore Product Identity owned by Paizo, then the word "Alakabooboo" can be used to refer to that item, but you can't then go on using that name to reference the NPC or his family or other such unrelated matters.
I could be mistaken but I doubt it.
I don't know. On a tangent, what use would it be to have mechanics that you can't refer to by a name?
blackbloodtroll, any potential licensing/usability issues don't affect your home game. Licensing issues only become relevant if you're trying to use them for commercial or community projects. The final word on what portions of the skymetal texts are available as Open Game Content is not within my power to give a final word on, but I have alerted the folks that could give that determination.
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The PRD IS Open Game Content- that's why d20pfsrd.com can repost it. Anything that exists in the PRD can legally also be on d20pfsrd.com.
The difference now is that content that we could post before, such as the words "Golarion" and other such words, we are no longer allowed to use. However, Paizo doesn't include those words in their main RPG line of hardcovers or in the PRD.
On a tangent, what use would it be to have mechanics that you can't refer to by a name?
This is not the first time this has happend as all of the White Wolf Scarred Lands monsters from the Creature Collection (and many other aspects) did this in the 3.0/3.5 days.
The solution is simply to reprint the mechanics and give the mechanic a new name. For example in the 3.0 days there was a great monsters called the Blood Hag from the Creature Collection series by White Wolf, when Expeditious Retreat press did their awesome Monster Geographica series they renamed the creature Bloodshackle Hag (it was a hag, that used your blood to bind you to its service).
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One of the primary reasons I use the d20pfsrd is as a quick-reference for finding stuff after which I go check the books. It is unfortunate this will no longer be possible.
- Gauss
Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games
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One of the primary reasons I use the d20pfsrd is as a quick-reference for finding stuff after which I go check the books. It is unfortunate this will no longer be possible.
- Gauss
It may well still be possible, since any and all OGC material must have its section 15 reference, which generally tells you where the material came from.
Also, certain books can be mentioned by name, including most of the crunchy hardcover books.
Owen: it was the non-hardbooks I used the d20pfsrd for. Trying to keep track of where every little item is can be a pain. I have most of the books so I dont need it for that. But I do need it for a master list.
- Gauss
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Be interested to see what Paizo decides. As presented , I'm not sure the names of the sky metals are "proper nouns", though Paizo is generous enough with its intellectual property that I would certainly follow their wishes if they didn't want it used. "Gotcha" may be legally acceptable, but in such a small industry courtesy counts for a lot.
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Gauss: We'll still have the same content, and we'll still have the same Section 15 information indicating where the content came from so there should be little to no reduction in functionality. In addition, the content that is too involved to "scrub" is being moved to another site I (Jreyst) do not own in its original wording which we'll link to. Ultimately its basically 1 extra click if you want the original unedited wording, or stay right on d20pfsrd.com for a somewhat genericized version. If you're running a campaign not set in Golarion this might actually be easier for you since the Golarion-focused "fluff" will be removed ahead of time.
d20pfsrd.com: sounds good. :)
- Gauss
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Yes, I have, well, basically all the books, and certainly all the PDFs.
I use d20pfsrd.com as a quick look up, and something to point out to players when not in person.
It is easier to send a link to a friend, than to send a PDF, and my disability prevents me from driving, going over to their house and delivering the book is not possible between sessions.
Is it all right to post the information on our campaign website, like Obsidian Portal?
Is it all right to post the information on our campaign website, like Obsidian Portal?
I believe in the past we've stated that's it's okay to share pasted text and images as long as it is a *private* website and not accessible to the public.
Chief Technical Officer
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The question here is the classic one of "What if the name of the item is a proper noun/name/made-up word?" By normal assumptions it is Product Identity and therefore NOT OPEN GAME CONTENT, however, by appearing in the NAME area of the item, my understanding is that the word then becomes Open Game Content BUT ONLY WHEN USED IN THAT SAME LOCATION, i.e. referring to the name of the <thing> For example, if something was called "The Mask of Alakabooboo" and Alakabooboo was a known NPC in the world of Golarion, and therefore Product Identity owned by Paizo, then the word "Alakabooboo" can be used to refer to that item, but you can't then go on using that name to reference the NPC or his family or other such unrelated matters.
I could be mistaken but I doubt it.
The presence of Product Identity in the title of an item does not make that PI context-specific Open Game Content. In the case of your "Mask of Alakabooboo" example, you'd need to change the name (presumably to "The Mask of [Something Else]").
It's just like Wizards' Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion—the name "Mordenkainen" is not OGC, but everything else is; that's why the Pathfinder RPG has Mage's Magnificent Mansion instead.
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Vic: So the mechanics can be stated but the names have to be changed to protect the innocent? :D
- Gauss
So the question then becomes: How do we reference such metals so people know what we are talking about? LOL
To use a metal we all know lets use Mithral and pretend the name is Product Identity.
<Insert replacement name here>
<Insert Mithral stats here>
Ok, so we now have the stats with a replacement name. But how can we draw a line from that to the source so people know what we are actually discussing?
Note: I am just curious, other than my being a moderator on another discussion board I doubt this will ever be a problem for me.
- Gauss
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Chief Technical Officer
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You can't easily and definitively connect your renamed mechanic to our IP... but that's the whole point; we don't really want publishers to do that, any more than we want them to make a town that substitutes for Absalom, an organization that substitutes for the Pathfinder Society, or an NPC that substitutes for Mayor Kendra Devarin.
(By the way, this is all talking about people using only the OGL—our Community Use Policy lets non-commercial users directly use most names, places, characters, etc.)
Ahhh ok, so if you are not a commercial entity you can reference stuff.
Why then was the post at the beginning of this thread partially deleted? Note: I didn't see what was posted before it was deleted, but I figure it was the skymetal information. If the names are ok for us (non-commercial types) to post and use and the mechanics are ok for anyone to post why would it have been deleted?
BTW, I am not trying to be contradictory, only to understand the line.
- Gauss
The post was partially deleted because it copied and pasted a not-insignificant chunk of non-mechanical details from the source text.
Ahhh, thanks Liz.
- Gauss
