How are Jaunt Boots (UE) supposed to work?


Rules Questions


16 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 4 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Three times per day, on command for 1 round when the wearer makes a 5-foot step, he can move up to 15 feet. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

So you give up a standard action to enhance a swift to half of what you could have done with the standard action in the first place (withdraw/trade for move action)?

If it was intended to let you blow your swift and standard to move 15 feat without provoking AoOs, there are better ways to write it.

These would be VERY useful as intelligent items but that's GM dependent.

Sczarni

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

why would you think it takes a standard command to do this?


I think that the authors sometimes use the phrase "on command" in different ways. Sometimes it refers to a command word activated item, and other times to a use activated item.

In this case, the item only makes sense as use activated. I would read it as if it said, "Three times per day when taking a 5-foot step, the wearer may instead move up to 15' without provoking attacks of opportunity."

Sczarni

I picture the command being like "Shazzam!" and voila, now you're 5 footing 15 feet!


Yeah, I'm going to agree with "the author didn't realize "command word" (AKA "On Command") is a standard action unless otherwise stated". Blueluck's line of wording is a lot better (Though I would make it an actual boost to 5-foot steps, so it works with a number of feats and other stuff that interacts with 5-foot steps, and ditch "without provoking attack of opportunity" as that is a property inherit to the 5-foot step action)

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

1) a 5' step is a no action, not a swift action.
2) moving 15' without provoking will allow you to leave the threatened area of most enemies, so you would be capable to do action that normally provoke. It can be a good option to leave a zone threatened by multiple opponents with reach.
3) the main limitation is that you can't make a normal move in the same round in which you have made a 5' step, so you can't use them to leave the threatened area and then move further away.

As the item cost only 7.200 gp I have some doubt if they should grant 15' of movement as a free action.

I, as a GM, probably would make that a move action. Essentially the equivalent of successfully using acrobatics though threatened squares.


Bumping this thread since I have the same question... Though I can see Diego Rossi's argument why the boots would not be completely useless if they do require a standard action to activate, it seems to em that 7.2 k is a LOT for only escaping at the cost of your whole turn...

Anyone else would like to hit the FAQ?


Bump.

Adding link and text to facilitate discussion

Jaunt Boots

Quote:
Three times per day, on command for 1 round when the wearer makes a 5-foot step, he can move up to 15 feet. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

If you are reading this and think the wording is unclear, hit the FAQ at the top!


Bump again. I see that now the FAQ is all the way to 10!

See the post above for the problem with the wording. I believe it would be OK for the item to be ruled either way (though I am hoping for the non-standard action activation), but I think it would be better to hear from whoever designed the item, at least to know the RAI.

Hit the FAQ! (Please?)

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

It says "on command."

Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.


Is that command word a free action? Because just above the quoted text it says, "Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise."

Can all command-word activated items be activated with a free action?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
RumpinRufus wrote:

Is that command word a free action? Because just above the quoted text it says, "Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise."

Can all command-word activated items be activated with a free action?

No.

PRD wrote:
Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

As it is a command to activate the boot they use a standard action. that make them way less useful as you are left with a move action and a swift action after using them. They can be still useful as a escape system in some situation but that make them a weak item.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:

It says "on command."

Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.

Thanks! I appreciate you taking the time for answering the question.

I agree with Diego that this ruling limits the usefulness of the item, but I'd rather have a less useful, consistent item that an unclear one.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

It says "on command."

Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.

Well if that was the way it was intended to work, then it's not a terribly useful item.

Why not save my money and simply withdraw, tumble, defensively cast teleport, or take any number of alternative "get out of Dodge" actions?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

With all due respect to SKR, I can't imagine that the intent is to use a standard action to move 15 feet. It seems clear that the intent is to substitute 15 feet of movement instead of a 5 foot step up to 3 times per day, otherwise it's a completely useless item.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

Well, I didn't write or develop it, but if it says "on command," to me that means "uses a command word." Otherwise it should say "at will." If you include a game term in the description, don't use that game term to mean something else.

Withraw? It's a FRA, which prevents you from doing anything else (like reloading, or opening a door). And it only makes the first square safe, which isn't so useful if you're surrounded or have other enemies.

Tumble? Maybe these are for a heavily armored fighter, or a clumsy wizard.

Defensively cast teleport? That's a luxury you don't have if you don't have access to 5th-level spells.

Silver Crusade

D'arandriel wrote:
With all due respect to SKR, I can't imagine that the intent is to use a standard action to move 15 feet. It seems clear that the intent is to substitute 15 feet of movement instead of a 5 foot step up to 3 times per day, otherwise it's a completely useless item.

It's even worse!

You 'use a standard action to move 15-feet', and then all you're left with is a move action that you cannot use to move, in a situation where you obviously are desperate to move!


Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Well, I didn't write or develop it, but if it says "on command," to me that means "uses a command word." Otherwise it should say "at will." If you include a game term in the description, don't use that game term to mean something else.

Withraw? It's a FRA, which prevents you from doing anything else (like reloading, or opening a door). And it only makes the first square safe, which isn't so useful if you're surrounded or have other enemies.

Tumble? Maybe these are for a heavily armored fighter, or a clumsy wizard.

Defensively cast teleport? That's a luxury you don't have if you don't have access to 5th-level spells.

Could also be used to move INTO range of an enemy with reach without making a tumble check, or used to enter into a flank on an adjacent enemy without provoking.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
D'arandriel wrote:
With all due respect to SKR, I can't imagine that the intent is to use a standard action to move 15 feet. It seems clear that the intent is to substitute 15 feet of movement instead of a 5 foot step up to 3 times per day, otherwise it's a completely useless item.

It's even worse!

You 'use a standard action to move 15-feet', and then all you're left with is a move action that you cannot use to move, in a situation where you obviously are desperate to move!

Yeah, if it's a standard they go from a decent option, to something that's not worth taking of striding & springing (cheaper boots). In my game I'll call them on-use if it comes up. 3x per day is hardly game changing.


I think the answer is:

The boots suck, and apparently that's ok.


It looks strange to see people talk about SKR while you're here, Sean. Mr. Reynolds. Whomever. Thanks for participating.

**** Thread topic houseruled.****

Silver Crusade

Personally, I would have thought the boots a little overpowered had it been doing what people assumed they did at the price they are. People complain about power creep, but when faced with obvious power creep they want it. *Rolls eyes*


Dan Luckett wrote:
Personally, I would have thought the boots a little overpowered had it been doing what people assumed they did at the price they are. People complain about power creep, but when faced with obvious power creep they want it. *Rolls eyes*

It is easier to believe power creep than that someone would knowingly make a nigh useless item. And I kind of don't think the boots are overpowered the way people thought they worked--it might let you get a full attack three times per day if you can get one from moving 10-15'. That doesn't strike me as amazing.


Dan Luckett wrote:
Personally, I would have thought the boots a little overpowered had it been doing what people assumed they did at the price they are. People complain about power creep, but when faced with obvious power creep they want it. *Rolls eyes*

Obvious power creep? Over 7k for boots that give you a bit of movement 3 times a day, versus 5k for boots that give you an extra 10' of move all day long. Seems reverse power creep to me.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Seems clear that the intent was for the boots not to require a separate standard action to activate, but the item description was ambiguously worded. As ruled, these aren't worth 1k (compare quick runner's shirt), let alone 7k. Good candidate for an errata fix.

Sovereign Court

Well it's a good thing that in most games you don't get to cherry pick your items and aren't always in a metropolis to buy them either.

Situationally useful is the classification I'd give them. 15' of no attack of opportunity movement has it's place in the useful tactics territory. Especially if your fighting larger creatures with reach where your usual 5' step does nothing.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Morgen wrote:

Well it's a good thing that in most games you don't get to cherry pick your items and aren't always in a metropolis to buy them either.

Situationally useful is the classification I'd give them. 15' of no attack of opportunity movement has it's place in the useful tactics territory. Especially if your fighting larger creatures with reach where your usual 5' step does nothing.

Agreed.

As I did say, in my games I would change them so that they require a movement action to activate. Not too powerful, not extremely situational. But an houserule.

But as Sean said the RAW of the text is clear.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

The "Use Activated" section of the magic item rules mentions that items requiring "command" do not always require actions.

Quote:

Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.

Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item's activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use, activation is not an action at all.

Use activation doesn't mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such as from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.

The relevant paragraphs are the second and the third. A very viable argument can be made that "Three times per day, on command for 1 round when the wearer makes a 5-foot step..." is a clear example of use activation.

You are activating the item by taking the 5 foot step and willing it. Much like swinging a use activated sword which is an example in the first paragraph.

One way or another official errata should be posted clarifying this. SKR said he didn't write/develop the item so perhaps someone should talk the the fellow that did and learn what was intended.


Ah-hah! Very nice catch Dirk!

"When the wearer takes a 5-step" is not a standard action. It can't be. A 5ft step can't be done as part of a standard action.

Granted, this could be construed as a grammar problem with comma placement, but at least there is some wiggle room in RAW to make these boots worth having.

Hmmm, 3 quickrunner shirts and a pair of Jaunter Boots for a hair over 10,000 gold... that's not too shabby by 6th level when full BAB classes get their extra attack, Haste is online, and the Jaunter Boots become worth less than one-half of WBL...

I like it. Going to show this to a Fighter in my campaign.


The comma placement is terrible :(.


These boots are way too good at 7,200 cost giving 3x 5 foot steps a day turned into 15 foot steps. However, with requiring a standard action to activate they are pretty much worthless.

To work as a free action the cost needs to be bumped up to 20k or more, IMO. Increasing the distance of your 5 foot step is a hugely powerful effect and shouldn't be given away cheap unless you just don't want attacks of opportunity to exist in your game anymore.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm not sure what you're going for, Solusek. You think they're useless as written, but you also think that if they work like most folks want them to, they're way too powerful? Do you feel that there should be a middle ground, or do you just want them to work on the free action but be more expensive?

Personally, I agree with you that upping the distance on a five foot step can be very powerful, especially for spellcasters, but I think the three times a day limit makes the price about right for the free action thing. Maybe just slightly under cost, but not enough for me to feel like messing with it.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hmm it says Answered in FAQ but i cant find it...


Solusek wrote:
These boots are way too good at 7,200 cost giving 3x 5 foot steps a day turned into 15 foot steps. However, with requiring a standard action to activate they are pretty much worthless.

No offense to Paizo, but that usually is the goal with new stuff.

I think with this you pretty much get a free in or out of reach of something very big or a cluster of enemies with out provoking.

If something is that big, yeah this could come in handy.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
DarkPhoenixx wrote:
Hmm it says Answered in FAQ but i cant find it...

Sometimes it takes a while for it to actually get into the faq document after they say that. I'm checking every day as getting an answer to this is at the top of my list for my grappler.


The last post was in August - granted it takes a little while at times but three months seems a bit on the long side. Maybe this FAQ request slipped through a crack somewhere?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Gosh, I check this one way to often to check to see if it has been faqed yet


Guys, "Answered in FAQ" doesn't always mean they actually released a FAQ on it.

It also means they're not GOING to make a FAQ on it. SKR most likely slapped that tag on there immediately after his first post in this thread. No point in following it in the hopes of a FAQ, or FAQing it more times. This thread is no longer in the queue. If you think it needs a FAQ or Errata, you'll need to make a new thread.

This thread was made before the "No Answer Required" tag was a thing, they used to use "Answered in the FAQ" for that purpose as well.

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