I have a concept for a character who could have been a powerful sorcerer, but she didn't want to limit herself. She chose to be a wizard instead.
Therefore, I wanted to design a archetype for her that would allow her to have the bloodline arcana (not powers) from a bloodline (in her case, Elemental Fire) as a wizard. So, she had that potential, but she isn't really using it to it's FULL extent.
I was thinking of having it replace the Scribe Scroll bonus feat, although I'm not sure if that's a fair enough trade. The only other thing to give up though is Arcane Bond, but her familiar is important to her concept too.
Any opinions?
EDIT: And yes, I know you can level dip as a sorcerer, but I despise level dipping, espeically when it means she'll be one level behind the entire campaign when it comes to her wizard spells, not to mention if the campaign goes to 20 but doesn't go past 20 (level wise) she'll lose out on her level 20 stuff.
A one level dip in sorcerer will grant the bloodline arcana. Its effects may apply to spells cast from wizard as well.
A one level dip in sorcerer will grant the bloodline arcana. Its effects may apply to spells cast from wizard as well.
Yeah, but like many players I don't want to give up that level of wizard. The annoying thing is, the ability I want her to have is available to her as a feat, but not quite... I want her to be able to turn any spell into a fire spell, but not have to up the spell a level to do it.
This is kiiiinda why I think actually losing Scribe Scroll might not be too bad, since she's essentially losing a feat to gain a feat... just a slightly better version?
Eldritch heritage? lol.
If you're going a odd custom archetype, if you look at the arcane bloodline, substitute that for all wizard bonuses, such as specialization or universalist and arcane bond/familiar.
and drop the bonus spells learned.
Nope, Eldritch Heritage gives the Bloodline POWERS... not the ARCANA. Those are two distinctly different elements of the bloodline.
Ok, so I had a further thought on how to do this and make it more balanced.
First, for lack of a better name (suggestions anyone?) let's call it Elemental Blood Archetype.
So, it replaces Arcane Bond (decided I'm ok with that) and it specifically gives you the arcana (only) of the Elemental bloodline of your choice. You are then also required to specialize as a wizard in that same element.
I think by limiting it only to the elemental bloodlines, it keeps it from being too many choices, also somewhat solves the idea of "Just take a level of sorcerer" as reason for the archetype not to even ezist.
What's everyone's opinion on this?
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So did you decide to ignore the rest of the comment?
I gave you one of the few non-house rule options then gave you a good guideline for making a arcana bloodlined wizard.
IE
Arcane
Your family has always been skilled in the eldritch art of magic. While many of your relatives were accomplished wizards, your powers developed without the need for study and practice.Class Skill: Knowledge (any one).
Bonus Spells: identify (3rd), invisibility (5th), dispel magic (7th), dimension door (9th), overland flight (11th), true seeing (13th), greater teleport (15th), power word stun (17th), wish (19th).
Bonus Feats: Combat Casting, Improved Counterspell, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]), Spell Focus, Still Spell.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.
Bloodline Powers: Magic comes naturally to you, but as you gain levels you must take care to prevent the power from overwhelming you.
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item. Once per day, your bond item allows you to cast any one of our spells known (unlike a wizard's bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook).
Metamagic Adept (Ex): At 3rd level, you can apply any one metamagic feat you know to a spell you are about to cast without increasing the casting time. You must still expend a higher-level spell slot to cast this spell. You can use this ability once per day at 3rd level and one additional time per day for every four sorcerer levels you possess beyond 3rd, up to five times per day at 19th level. At 20th level, this ability is replaced by arcane apotheosis.
New Arcana (Ex): At 9th level, you can add any one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to your list of spells known. This spell must be of a level that you are capable of casting. You can also add one additional spell at 13th level and 17th level.
School Power (Ex): At 15th level, pick one school of magic. The DC for any spells you cast from that school increases by +2. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Spell Focus.
Arcane Apotheosis (Ex): At 20th level, your body surges with arcane power. You can add any metamagic feats that you know to your spells without increasing their casting time, although you must still expend higher-level spell slots. Whenever you use magic items that require charges, you can instead expend spell slots to power the item. For every three levels of spell slots that you expend, you consume one less charge when using a magic item that expends charges.
To replace the Wizard abilities bonus feats, arcane bond and school specalizations.
You'd lose three special wizard abilities, lose arcane bond (but gain it back) and lose the 5 bonus feats. But you'd gain the different powers of a sorcerer (4 total) and gain the bonus feats (3) and not gain any bonus spells (although you could I suppose)
So net change is 1 less "free feats" and one more power than a wizard and a different spell progression/versatility.
So did you decide to ignore the rest of the comment?
I gave you one of the few non-house rule options then gave you a good guideline for making a arcana bloodlined wizard.
IE
...Arcane
Your family has always been skilled in the eldritch art of magic. While many of your relatives were accomplished wizards, your powers developed without the need for study and practice.Class Skill: Knowledge (any one).
Bonus Spells: identify (3rd), invisibility (5th), dispel magic (7th), dimension door (9th), overland flight (11th), true seeing (13th), greater teleport (15th), power word stun (17th), wish (19th).
Bonus Feats: Combat Casting, Improved Counterspell, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]), Spell Focus, Still Spell.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.
Bloodline Powers: Magic comes naturally to you, but as you gain levels you must take care to prevent the power from overwhelming you.
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item. Once per day, your bond item allows you to cast any one of our spells known (unlike a wizard's bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook).
Metamagic Adept (Ex): At 3rd level, you can apply any one metamagic feat you know to a spell you are about to cast without increasing the casting time. You must still expend a higher-level spell slot to cast this spell. You can use this ability once per day at 3rd level and one additional time per day for every four sorcerer levels you possess beyond 3rd, up to five times per day at
Yeah, but Metamagic Adept is worthless for a wizard. Since they prepare spells they don't have increased casting times. New Arcana is kinda cool, it's free spells she doesn't have to buy. Then School Power is still useful.
As for "ignoring" what you said, no i just didn't understand it
So, I think overall I'll probably end up doing what I said above with the elemental blood thing, lose arcane bond and then pick it up via the Eldritch Heritage feat.
Also, she's a specialist in the fire element, so dropping her specialization isn't an option lol
Honestly, no offense but with all the replacements you did, might as well just be playing a sorcerer. As a human she'd be able to have 20 additional spells via the alternate class bonuses so the lack of spell choices wouldn't be an issue.
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What you've just said doesn't jive at all with the
I have a concept for a character who could have been a powerful sorcerer, but she didn't want to limit herself. She chose to be a wizard instead.
What you're really asking is "how can I make a special class that'll give me max fireballing..."
My idea was that when you look at the bonus spells on the arcane list (and favored class bonus) you could take any of your prepared spells and spontaneously cast them as one of the bonus spells.
And while the lvl 20 spell is useless (unless you're applying them to the spontaneously cast bonus spells) thems the breaks.
What you're looking for are alot of house rules and more power than standard.
What you've just said doesn't jive at all with theI have a concept for a character who could have been a powerful sorcerer, but she didn't want to limit herself. She chose to be a wizard instead.What you're really asking is "how can I make a special class that'll give me max fireballing..."
My idea was that when you look at the bonus spells on the arcane list (and favored class bonus) you could take any of your prepared spells and spontaneously cast them as one of the bonus spells.
And while the lvl 20 spell is useless (unless you're applying them to the spontaneously cast bonus spells) thems the breaks.
What you're looking for are alot of house rules and more power than standard.
Yes, but what you suggested pretty much made it a sorcerer that prepares spells, yet can spontaneously cast some spells.
All I was thinking was switch out Arcane Bond for the Elemental (Fire) bloodline ability. That's not nearly on the level of
"how can I make a special class that'll give me max fireballing..." and
"alot of house rules and more power than standard."
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you also seem to want to give it the ability to cast nearly any spell.
When you say "bloodline powers" and "not a sorcerer" and "became a wizard"
The base chasis must be wizard, so we look at spell progression, then we remove the bonus parts of the class and sub sorcerer stuff.
You could easily throw whatever bloodline, but not arcane bond also.
So your option is which bloodline for your concept. Adding in more brings you closer to getting more than you should for a standard PC.
you also seem to want to give it the ability to cast nearly any spell.
When you say "bloodline powers" and "not a sorcerer" and "became a wizard"
The base chasis must be wizard, so we look at spell progression, then we remove the bonus parts of the class and sub sorcerer stuff.
You could easily throw whatever bloodline, but not arcane bond also.
So your option is which bloodline for your concept. Adding in more brings you closer to getting more than you should for a standard PC.
I never said bloodline powers. I said Bloodline Arcana. Not powers, just arcana.
and where does being able to cast nearly any spell come into play? That's what a wizard can do anyway. I'm just looking here to trade arcane bond for the bloodline arcana (again, NOT powers).
At first I wanted to keep the arcane bond, but then I realized that wasn't quite balanced to do so, so I'm willing to give it up.
Well, lantzkev, I appreciate all of your input, and I think I've decided that I'll just stick with the feat "Elemental Spell" and not bother with trying to do this whole custom archetype thing.
:)
If your party is ok with 3.5 material, Energy Substitution feat from Complete Arcane is all you need.
If your party is ok with 3.5 material, Energy Substitution feat from Complete Arcane is all you need.
Well, even if 3.5 was allowed, Elemental Spell and Energy Substitution are the exact same thing (well, almost... don't remember if Energy Sub was a +1 spell level feat or not)
If your party is ok with 3.5 material, Energy Substitution feat from Complete Arcane is all you need.Well, even if 3.5 was allowed, Elemental Spell and Energy Substitution are the exact same thing (well, almost... don't remember if Energy Sub was a +1 spell level feat or not)
No, they are different. Energy Substitution does exactly the same thing the bloodline arcana from the elemental bloodline does, and has no adjustment to the spell level.
The 3.5 feat Energy Substitution has prerequisites and no adjustment to the spell level.
Energy Substitution [Metamagic]
Prerequisites: Any other metamagic feat, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks.
Benefit:
You choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When employing a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. The altered spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.
The altered spell works normally in all respects except the type of damage dealt.
Special:
You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time the feat applies to a different type of energy.
Elemental Spell has no prerequisites, has a +1 level adjustment, and is more versatile.
Elemental Spell (Metamagic)
Benefit: Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell’s normal damage with that energy type or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type.
Level Increase: +1 (an elemental spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you must choose a different energy type.
Energy Substitution is more useful for a sorcerer. Elemental Spell is more useful for a prepared caster.
Nobody has said it, so here goes.
Fire school. Be a full on wizard, just give up all water/ice based spells. What is your arcane bond for? Can the object be given fire powers and water/cold vulnerabilities?
I find it's better to extend existing rules than try to craft brand new rules.
Nobody has said it, so here goes.
Fire school. Be a full on wizard, just give up all water/ice based spells. What is your arcane bond for? Can the object be given fire powers and water/cold vulnerabilities?
I find it's better to extend existing rules than try to craft brand new rules.
I think nobody said it because it didn't need saying... Character was already stated to be a fire specialist... this is about being able to do energy substitution...
So, your suggestion is... make the character normally and ignore the entire intent of the thread, essentially.
Well, that was my opinion. I'm going to hide this thread now.