shield and mage armor


Beginner Box


Im sure this has been brought up before. But I'm having a hard time at a door waiting to open it..see if theres a fight. Cast mage armor and shield ..open the door. No one in there and 2 wasted spells. Is there any way to make this swift actions or any feats that would make these such? Just looking for some ideas. Thanks for any help


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You could Quicken the spells. It'll either make them take up slots 4 levels higher or tens of thousands of gold in metamagic rods though.

On the other hand, casting Mage Armor ahead of time isn't usually a big problem, what with it lasting 1 hour/level, but I can see the issue with the Shield.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Armor is long lasting (1 hour/level), so generally it is not a wasted spell even if there aren't enemies after the first door you open.

The Quicken metamagic feat allow you to cast spells as a swift action, but you need to memorize them in a spell slot 4 levels higher, so shield would require a 5th level slot.

Quicken Spell (Metamagic) wrote:

You can cast spells in a fraction of the normal time.

Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 round or 1 full-round action cannot be quickened.

A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.

Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell's casting time.

Another option is a Lesser metamagic rod of quickening:

Rod Metamagic, Quicken wrote:


Aura strong (no school); CL 17th

Slot none; Price 35,000 gp (lesser), 75,500 gp (normal), 170,000 gp (greater); Weight 5 lbs.

Description

The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are quickened as though using the Quicken Spell feat.

Construction

Requirements Craft Rod, Quicken Spell; Cost 17,500 gp (lesser), 37,750 gp (normal), 85,000 gp (greater)

Both options are available only to high level characters as the cost in spell slots or gold is high.


LOL burn 35 K...only lvl 5...that isnt happening...so armor is good..just SOL on shield...just hope you guess right LOL

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Donnovin wrote:
Im sure this has been brought up before. But I'm having a hard time at a door waiting to open it..see if theres a fight. Cast mage armor and shield ..open the door. No one in there and 2 wasted spells. Is there any way to make this swift actions or any feats that would make these such? Just looking for some ideas. Thanks for any help

Get someone else that's more durable to do the door opening schtick.


4,000g gets you a lesser metamagic rod of extend which will make your mage armor last 10 hours, plus a first level pearl of power which will recharge a spell slot.

Ready an action to cast "shield" when a more durable party member opens the door if there are enemies on the other side. That way if the room is clear you won't cast it, but if there are enemies, it will be triggered immediately.

Scout ahead. Listen at doors. Look for gaps you can peer through. Use distractions to see if you can lure them out of the room.

At level 5 your party should have some options to make opening doors a less troublesome event.


Scout!

Grand Lodge

The is no meta magic in the Beginner Box


Have you tried listening at the door to see if anyone is in there before casting?

Sovereign Court

Use the Open/Close or Mage Hand cantrips from a distance on the door. If anything storms out, they still need to clear some distance, giving you time to cast Shield.

Mage Armor has a duration sufficient for the "working day" in the dungeon. Cast one while on the move, and insist that when it runs out (after Level Hours), the party make camp. Have another one prepared in case your camp is attacked.


Ravenbow wrote:
The is no meta magic in the Beginner Box

i don't believe there is a Shield spell, either.

anyways, MPL and Ascaphalus have the main point, that you need to play differently, not just view the game like a videogame where you push buttons linked to specific powers. nobody should be casting shield if they don't have a specific reason to think that they should need to. the game has a whole host of rules and skills that allow you to realistically proceed cautiously thru an environment, seeking to avoid and be aware of threats you may face. with limited spells/day, you shouldn't use them unless necessary.

assuming you are using Shield, given that it lasts 1 minute/level, even 1st level and probably 2nd level wizards should be able to get use out of shield for more than 1 encounter (at least partially into the next encounter), generally speaking (if you are facing a dungeon or sequence of opponents). if there isn't opponents in the first room, or they make a tactical retreat, then you should still get some use out of it even then.

if you are using the shield spell with your BB game for some reason, then you are probably also using the full Core Rules spells... honestly, i don't think that shield is the best way to spend spell slots at very low levels, generally speaking you are better off using sleep or color spray (non-BB). by 2nd or 3rd level, using mage armor + shield can be workable though... that doesn't mean that you use it recklessly without common sense though.


Quandary wrote:
assuming you are using Shield, given that it lasts 1 minute/level, even 1st level and probably 2nd level wizards should be able to get use out of shield for more than 1 encounter (at least partially into the next encounter), generally speaking (if you are facing a dungeon or sequence of opponents). if there isn't opponents in the first room, or they make a tactical retreat, then you should still get some use out of it even then.

1 minute is 10 rounds. Long encounters can take more time than that. Any encounter where you spend any amount of time cleaning up, looting, healing, etc, easily lasts a couple of minutes (I think 10 minutes is a nice standard assumption there). The only way to use Shield for more than one encounter at low level is to basically turn the second encounter into part of the first: don't regroup, don't wait for your pals, run straight through the next door.

I did that once: Summoned some Dire Wolves before opening the door. The Dire Wolves tore through the opposition, but one of them fled through a door. The wolves ran straight after him (and eventually the rest of the party caught up with them). The guy who fled had released a demon there, so one fight immediately turned into the next fight. But situations like these are rare.

Quandary wrote:
if you are using the shield spell with your BB game for some reason, then you are probably also using the full Core Rules spells... honestly, i don't think that shield is the best way to spend spell slots at very low levels, generally speaking you are better off using sleep or color spray (non-BB). by 2nd or 3rd level, using mage armor + shield can be workable though... that doesn't mean that you use it recklessly without common sense though.

Mage Armor is practically mandatory for any wizard, and it's a good deal at any level. Shield is only useful in addition to Mage Armor, and to make it worth it, you either need to be desperate for that extra protection, or you need to be high enough level that it lasts a while and you don't need those level 1 spell slots for anything else anymore.


mcv wrote:
Quandary wrote:
assuming you are using Shield, given that it lasts 1 minute/level, even 1st level and probably 2nd level wizards should be able to get use out of shield for more than 1 encounter (at least partially into the next encounter), generally speaking (if you are facing a dungeon or sequence of opponents). if there isn't opponents in the first room, or they make a tactical retreat, then you should still get some use out of it even then.
1 minute is 10 rounds. Long encounters can take more time than that. Any encounter where you spend any amount of time cleaning up, looting, healing, etc, easily lasts a couple of minutes (I think 10 minutes is a nice standard assumption there). The only way to use Shield for more than one encounter at low level is to basically turn the second encounter into part of the first: don't regroup, don't wait for your pals, run straight through the next door.

Some GMs will make listen checks for the goblins in the next room and in this games the chance is high that the goblins in the next room hear the fighting. In this case you will for sure not have minutes before the next encounter starts :)


Quandary wrote:
Ravenbow wrote:
The is no meta magic in the Beginner Box

i don't believe there is a Shield spell, either.

anyways, MPL and Ascaphalus have the main point, that you need to play differently, not just view the game like a videogame where you push buttons linked to specific powers. nobody should be casting shield if they don't have a specific reason to think that they should need to. the game has a whole host of rules and skills that allow you to realistically proceed cautiously thru an environment, seeking to avoid and be aware of threats you may face. with limited spells/day, you shouldn't use them unless necessary.

A big +1 here.

I have been following this thread with interest, and I find it rather sad that so many people seem to missing the point that any dungeon crawl is about resource management and either knowing or lucking into when you should be expending spells.


Breiti wrote:
mcv wrote:
Quandary wrote:
assuming you are using Shield, given that it lasts 1 minute/level, even 1st level and probably 2nd level wizards should be able to get use out of shield for more than 1 encounter (at least partially into the next encounter), generally speaking (if you are facing a dungeon or sequence of opponents). if there isn't opponents in the first room, or they make a tactical retreat, then you should still get some use out of it even then.
1 minute is 10 rounds. Long encounters can take more time than that. Any encounter where you spend any amount of time cleaning up, looting, healing, etc, easily lasts a couple of minutes (I think 10 minutes is a nice standard assumption there). The only way to use Shield for more than one encounter at low level is to basically turn the second encounter into part of the first: don't regroup, don't wait for your pals, run straight through the next door.
Some GMs will make listen checks for the goblins in the next room and in this games the chance is high that the goblins in the next room hear the fighting. In this case you will for sure not have minutes before the next encounter starts :)

Some GMs play goblins as cowards that don't charge blindly into a fight.

But I get your point. When I ran a Caves of Chaos D&D Next playtest, the goblin reinforcements kept showing up every time the party tried to rest after a fight.


Shield is a good spell to get a few scrolls of, then you can just use it prior to a fight that you know is coming (via scouting or some other method of warning/preparation).

I think you could make a version of shield that is a swift/immediate action spell that only lasts 1 round (and doesn't auto-block magic missile) and it would play pretty well.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

If you want to know when to prepare for a fight, you should make sure that you have the best possible Perception and Stealth skills. Don't dump Wisdom too low, take the Skill Focus feat, and buy a masterwork ear trumpet (a masterwork "listening at doors" tool: 50 gp, 1 lb.)

Then stop and listen at every doorway or turn in the hallway. If your character just isn't good at such schemes, adventure with a rogue: They're quite capable!

DC to hear details of a whispered conversation 20 ft. away, behind a door: 22

DC to hear ogres loudly swapping lies about their relatives (still 20 ft. away, behind a door): 7

Possible "Door Listening" skill of a 1st level dwarf rogue: 1 (skill point) + 3 (class skill) + 2 (14 Wis) + 2 (masterwork ear trumpet) + 3 (Skill Focus: Perception)= +11


Don't cast Shield ahead of time, or prepare an offensive spell instead.

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