Commonly Overlooked Tactics


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The Exchange 5/5

Ready an action to run if the guy you are talking to charges you...

"Free action or Move action to offer to parley -
standard action to ready a move back behind our tank if he charges me"

The Exchange 5/5

exile wrote:
Natertot wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Natertot wrote:


Three things.

Focus fire, focus fire, focus fire.

Is that a specific game term that I'm not aware of, or are you just pointing out that it's better for the entire group to focus on one enemy at a time when fighting a group, rather than spreading the damage across all the enemies?

Just pointing out that it is good to focus damage on one enemy at a time as opposed to just spreading it out. If you have the choice of hitting a wounded enemy as opposed to fresh, you should go after the wounded.

Nate
NYC Player/GM

I think this is even more true in 4E (gods rest its soul) than in Pathfinder. In Pathfinder, there are still enough long-term status effects that an enemy can be taken out of a fight temporarily, but longer than 1-2 rounds, and efforts directed against other enemies.

I guess I'm mostly thinking about spells like create pit. I'd rather attack a fresh enemy than an injured one that my enemy just put in a pit.

In groups I play in this is refered to as "Russian Tank Doctrine", and we use it in most any game we play (PFS, BattleTech, etc.)

Translation: "Everyone shot at the same guy till he falls."

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

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Whether or not you have Darkvision, carry an Ioun Torch at all times, as soon as you have 75gp to spare and a couple of points of fame, even if you almost never use it.

Because it has a CL 12 Continual Flame on it *and* it's an Ioun stone, it:

- Gives you a hands-free light source (normal light 20ft, increased 40ft)
- Will overcome Darkness
- Will mitigate the effect of Deeper Darkness (same level spell from the Cleric list as Deeper Darkness is)
- Can be stored in a pouch if you want to sneak around without it always-on.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

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General tactics that are never in bad taste:
1. Checking suspicious doors for traps, even if you can't detect magical ones.

2. Moving at half speed through dungeons and making stealth checks every now and then. A lot of BBEG fights have tactics written in that only trigger if the enemies hear the PCs tromping down the hallway towards them.

3. Making the most of minute/level buffs. If my cleric slaps me with a bull's strength in a 1-5 game -- I know I'm not getting many more of those. So rather than dink around looting for faction missions, how about we stove in some more heads before my 'roid rage ends. Loot can be gathered after everything is dead.

4. Always do something. Even if the harpies are out of range and you don't have a ranged weapon (why?), find something useful to do. Actions win fights, more actions = more winning, so don't let your team down by sitting rounds on the bench.

Overused tactics that irritate me to hear/see:
1. Casting guidance on everyone every minute. If my character had to adventure with a cleric that was saying, "praise to Sarenrae," five times every minute over the four hour trek into gods know where, he'd probably kill himself.

2. The scenario takes place in a rural place - a bar or mansion - but the PCs open every door with five readied actions. Imagine a team of Delta 6 operatives going to get drinks at a pub by flanking the door, setting up a sniper, then breaking it in while throwing in a flashbang. The crowd screams, people are blinded, I faceplam myself. This is the real world equivalent.

Some epic high level tactics that I have seen:
1. In response to an enemy sorcerer casting, a level 10+ bard identified the spell (an empowered cone of cold), then ended his performance as an immediate action with heroic finale to grant himself an additional standard action. He used this action to shoot the caster, dealing enough damage to cause the caster to fail at casting the spell. The bolt was also poisoned, so the result of the sorcerer moving up to blast the party was: take 40+ damage, spell fizzle, take 3 str damage, end turn. He died before taking his second turn from the rest of the party.

2. In a vicious encounter against a glabrezu, this transpired. The group got nailed with a reverse gravity, causing a section of the battlefield to be a 70 ft drop in the air - vertically. The party fighter steps forward to engage the demon, and gets hit with a power word stun. The glabrezu takes full attacks on the stunned fighter -- dropping him to 2 health after the damage was split by shield other. In an inspired moment of quick thinking, the bard shoots the poor fighter with a grappling arrow (Adventurer's Armory. The GM allows it, seeing as how the fighter isn't really a moving target. With the fighter hooked, the bard runs, rope in hand, into the reverse gravity. Both PCs plummet skyward, out of reach of the glabrezu - the bard finishing his turn by tossing a feather fall on them to prevent any fall damage.

3. In one scenario, a certain cleric with a ring of invisibility used it to great advantage. They had encountered a scarab of death earlier, and the cleric was holding onto it (safely). When they got into a heated fight against a rogue and a sorcerer, things took a turn for the worse. Half the team dead or down, the enemy spellcaster locked into a struggle against the paladin, the cleric stabilizing who he could. The rogue appeared, grievously wounding the paladin, and ending his turn next to the still invisible cleric. With a check, I allowed the crafty cleric to slip the scarab of death into the rogue's pocket. Moments later, with a crit from the paladin, the sorcerer fled, as did the rogue. About a minute later, from an alley a few hundred feet off, the recovering party heard a gruesome scream. It was followed by quiet snickering from some invisible source.

Overall advice:
Be creative. Tell your GM what your thinking of doing and they'll work with you to make it happen. The reason you're playing PFS instead of an MMO is because you like thinking outside the box, right? So do that.

The Exchange 5/5

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Mike Bramnik wrote:

Whether or not you have Darkvision, carry an Ioun Torch at all times, as soon as you have 75gp to spare and a couple of points of fame, even if you almost never use it.

Because it has a CL 12 Continual Flame on it *and* it's an Ioun stone, it:

- Gives you a hands-free light source (normal light 20ft, increased 40ft)
- Will overcome Darkness
- Will mitigate the effect of Deeper Darkness (same level spell from the Cleric list as Deeper Darkness is)
- Can be stored in a pouch if you want to sneak around without it always-on.

actually the continual flame on the Ioun Torch is a 2nd level (Arcane) version. But you can get a 5th level cleric you adventure with to add on another (divine) casting of it - costs' 50 gp and get the Judge to note it on the Chronicle (CL, and spell level) and initial it.

So... it doesn't work on either darkness or DD - being only 2nd level.

Silver Crusade

Can we get a new thread to discuss the casting bluff trick? I'm actually curious as to how this should work, but we need to stop derailing this thread with it.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

DC to spot someone 80 feet away doing something is either none because there is no opposed stealth or slight of hand check, or 10 because you start with a DC of 0 to notice a creature just standing there, -8 for distance and then -2 for an unfavorable condition. That's pretty much the worst case scenario (because anything bigger won't fit on the map)

The Exchange 5/5

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My wife often runs arcane casters, and she's fond of unusual tactics with invisibility
Picture this:
A rogue in the front of the party listening at a door hears somethings, so my wife slides her Sorcerer forward and says "be sure to act surprised!" and casts invisibility on the door. Says to the judge "Our light shines into the room, while we look surpised, what do we see? do we have to make a bluff roll?"

I'm hopeing she does this sometime to a caster who drops a fireball on us... that blows up on the invisible door. She has had a Mook charge us... into the door. Her comment was "that's gonna leave a mark!" we never did find out if she ment on the door or the mook...

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

nosig wrote:


actually the continual flame on the Ioun Torch is a 2nd level (Arcane) version. But you can get a 5th level cleric you adventure with to add on another (divine) casting of it - costs' 50 gp and get the Judge to note it on the Chronicle (CL, and spell level) and initial it.

So... it doesn't work on either darkness or DD - being only 2nd level.

Do you have a source for that being the arcane version?

The Exchange 5/5

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Hat of disguise - used during any interview like a Police Sketch artist.

"so, the nose was bigger and he has more hair..."
"like this?"
"yeah! that's him"

or
"So, Venture Captain - we are to meet a guy named Ardenson? What's he look like? Could you wear this and think of him please? So we'll recognize him when we see him."

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

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Another one I see some parties use and others never use:

When you're not in combat or being rushed during a scenario and are worried about a door being trapped - Take 20 on your Perception check.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

My next character will be a sorcerer with heighten spell, to pass out 4th level continual flames to everyone he meets.

The Exchange 5/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:
nosig wrote:


actually the continual flame on the Ioun Torch is a 2nd level (Arcane) version. But you can get a 5th level cleric you adventure with to add on another (divine) casting of it - costs' 50 gp and get the Judge to note it on the Chronicle (CL, and spell level) and initial it.

So... it doesn't work on either darkness or DD - being only 2nd level.

Do you have a source for that being the arcane version?

I will need to find the posts, but I also beleave it is in the campaign documentation. I'm sure other people will be happy to point out exactly where... it has come up many times. I'll try my search fu... but I'm not all that good, so this may take a while.

The Exchange 5/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:

Another one I see some parties use and others never use:

When you're not in combat or being rushed during a scenario and are worried about a door being trapped - Take 20 on your Perception check.

I run a lot of Trapsmith characters... and while this is SOP for them, there are some judges who will rule that this sets off traps. So be sure to ask first - just to see if the judge feels that you can set off traps with a Perception check.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

nosig wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:

Another one I see some parties use and others never use:

When you're not in combat or being rushed during a scenario and are worried about a door being trapped - Take 20 on your Perception check.

I run a lot of Trapsmith characters... and while this is SOP for them, there are some judges who will rule that this sets off traps. So be sure to ask first - just to see if the judge feels that you can set off traps with a Perception check.

I hope no judges do that...

PRD wrote:
Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).

The Exchange 5/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:
nosig wrote:


actually the continual flame on the Ioun Torch is a 2nd level (Arcane) version. But you can get a 5th level cleric you adventure with to add on another (divine) casting of it - costs' 50 gp and get the Judge to note it on the Chronicle (CL, and spell level) and initial it.

So... it doesn't work on either darkness or DD - being only 2nd level.

Do you have a source for that being the arcane version?

Unless I am mistaken - this thread also addresses it

other thread

But you appear on this thread too... so??? I'm confused now. What was your question?

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

nosig wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:
nosig wrote:


actually the continual flame on the Ioun Torch is a 2nd level (Arcane) version. But you can get a 5th level cleric you adventure with to add on another (divine) casting of it - costs' 50 gp and get the Judge to note it on the Chronicle (CL, and spell level) and initial it.

So... it doesn't work on either darkness or DD - being only 2nd level.

Do you have a source for that being the arcane version?

Unless I am mistaken - this thread also addresses it

other thread

But you appear on this thread too... so??? I'm confused now. What was your question?

Apparently in that thread I didn't think to ask for what the source for the "Ioun Torch is the level 2 version" is. If it's level 2, than yes, you'd need to pay for a NPC cleric or PC cleric to cast it on a dull gray ioun stone for you (or make friends with an Aasimar of a certain bloodline).


Mike Bramnik wrote:

Whether or not you have Darkvision, carry an Ioun Torch at all times, as soon as you have 75gp to spare and a couple of points of fame, even if you almost never use it.

Because it has a CL 12 Continual Flame on it *and* it's an Ioun stone, it:

- Gives you a hands-free light source (normal light 20ft, increased 40ft)
- Will overcome Darkness
- Will mitigate the effect of Deeper Darkness (same level spell from the Cleric list as Deeper Darkness is)
- Can be stored in a pouch if you want to sneak around without it always-on.

It will not mitigate deeper darkness. Deeper darkness is a 3rd level spell and continual flame is a 2nd level spell. You cannot specify a cleric made it any more than you can specify a paladin made the lessor pesto wand.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Furious Kender wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:

Whether or not you have Darkvision, carry an Ioun Torch at all times, as soon as you have 75gp to spare and a couple of points of fame, even if you almost never use it.

Because it has a CL 12 Continual Flame on it *and* it's an Ioun stone, it:

- Gives you a hands-free light source (normal light 20ft, increased 40ft)
- Will overcome Darkness
- Will mitigate the effect of Deeper Darkness (same level spell from the Cleric list as Deeper Darkness is)
- Can be stored in a pouch if you want to sneak around without it always-on.

It will not mitigate deeper darkness. Deeper darkness is a 3rd level spell and continual flame is a 2nd level spell. You cannot specify a cleric made it any more than you can specify a paladin made the lessor pesto wand.

What the heck is a lessor pesto wand? Something you make pasta salad with?

And, no, both Wizard and Cleric are both legal sources for magic scrolls, so you should be able to specify who made that Ioun Torch/Everburning Torch you have.

5/5

kinevon wrote:
Furious Kender wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:

Whether or not you have Darkvision, carry an Ioun Torch at all times, as soon as you have 75gp to spare and a couple of points of fame, even if you almost never use it.

Because it has a CL 12 Continual Flame on it *and* it's an Ioun stone, it:

- Gives you a hands-free light source (normal light 20ft, increased 40ft)
- Will overcome Darkness
- Will mitigate the effect of Deeper Darkness (same level spell from the Cleric list as Deeper Darkness is)
- Can be stored in a pouch if you want to sneak around without it always-on.

It will not mitigate deeper darkness. Deeper darkness is a 3rd level spell and continual flame is a 2nd level spell. You cannot specify a cleric made it any more than you can specify a paladin made the lessor pesto wand.

What the heck is a lessor pesto wand? Something you make pasta salad with?

And, no, both Wizard and Cleric are both legal sources for magic scrolls, so you should be able to specify who made that Ioun Torch/Everburning Torch you have.

You're not quite right about scrolls (it uses the lowest cost version out of clerics, wizards, and druids as per the Guide), but it's ambiguous for spellcasting services. Coincidentally, I just created a thread on the question of who you can hire for spellcasting services here.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

If you do a strict reading of the Light/Darkness effects, it appears that a lower level darkness or light spell can still negate one of higher level.

This is because they 'counter and dispel' one another, not simply 'dispel'.

And when spells counter one another, they are consumed.

Thus, toss a low level darkness spell at a Continual Flame, it will Counter it and be consumed at the same time.

Now, I believe the INTENT of the language was "counter Darkness spells of equal level, and dispel darkness spells of lower level", but that's not what it actually says.

Unless you use the latter interpretation, a Heightened Continual Flame is actually worthless.

==Aelryinth

5/5

Aelryinth wrote:

If you do a strict reading of the Light/Darkness effects, it appears that a lower level darkness or light spell can still negate one of higher level.

This is because they 'counter and dispel' one another, not simply 'dispel'.

And when spells counter one another, they are consumed.

Thus, toss a low level darkness spell at a Continual Flame, it will Counter it and be consumed at the same time.

Now, I believe the INTENT of the language was "counter Darkness spells of equal level, and dispel darkness spells of lower level", but that's not what it actually says.

Unless you use the latter interpretation, a Heightened Continual Flame is actually worthless.

==Aelryinth

the spell is range touch, so you have to touch if you want to dispel. Throwing two affected objects at each other is not the same as casting the spells both on the same object.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

They counter and dispel one another if brought into contact, which generally means their area of effect, not center of effect.

Oh, and what you're calling the "Russian Tank Doctrine" is called the "Star Wars rule" on the WoTC boards. As in -

"Concentrate all firepower on that Super Star Destroyer!"

that's Admiral Ackbar for you.

although it more specifically references killing off the boss at all costs before mopping up the small fry...

==Aelryinth

5/5

Aelryinth wrote:

They counter and dispel one another if brought into contact, which generally means their area of effect, not center of effect.

Oh, and what you're calling the "Russian Tank Doctrine" is called the "Star Wars rule" on the WoTC boards. As in -

"Concentrate all firepower on that Super Star Destroyer!"

that's Admiral Ackbar for you.

although it more specifically references killing off the boss at all costs before mopping up the small fry...

==Aelryinth

Overlapping areas do suppress both effects temporarily within the overlap, but considering we had a long thread on the PFS forums a while ago about this (I was trying to make sure we didn't have GMs doing exactly what you describe to the PCs with enemies who have deeper darkness at will, so a few others and I made an effort to determine precisely what happens between light and darkness spells), I'd be surprised if you can show me where it says you can touch the items together to counter both spells. I'm always open to being wrong, though, if you have a quote.


Walter Sheppard wrote:

Some epic high level tactics that I have seen:

1. In response to an enemy sorcerer casting, a level 10+ bard identified the spell (an empowered cone of cold), then ended his performance as an immediate action with heroic finale to grant himself an additional standard action. He used this action to shoot the caster, dealing enough damage...

Uh... How does that work?

I take it you were confused by the mention of 'immediately' in the spell description, but that doesn't change the actual action economy of the spell itself. The spell is a Level 4 STANDARD ACTION casting time spell. It's not even Swift, much less IMMEDIATE to interrupt another character's turn. If the Bard was readying this spell, then he could have readied any other spell just as well. (that was already somebody's advice: ready to cast a damaging spell, not counterspell)

The Exchange 5/5

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Aelryinth wrote:

They counter and dispel one another if brought into contact, which generally means their area of effect, not center of effect.

Oh, and what you're calling the "Russian Tank Doctrine" is called the "Star Wars rule" on the WoTC boards. As in -

"Concentrate all firepower on that Super Star Destroyer!"

that's Admiral Ackbar for you.

although it more specifically references killing off the boss at all costs before mopping up the small fry...

==Aelryinth

Actually, "Russian Tank Doctrine" comes from WW II, just before the battle of Kursk I think - so the early 1940's. Kind of before both Star Wars and WotC.

It comes from the fact that only one tank in a Russian WWII tank platoon had a radio and he chose the target, so the rest of the platoon were under orders to wait till the leader fired, and then shot at the same target. (he was getting he orders via the radio). In Battletech we will normally use it to take out the lightest enemy first - remove the small fry, as they are easiest to kill. Reduce the enemy numbers as fast as possible.

Guess Admiral Ackbar must have read one of those old Russian field manuals...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

They counter and dispel one another if brought into contact, which generally means their area of effect, not center of effect.

Oh, and what you're calling the "Russian Tank Doctrine" is called the "Star Wars rule" on the WoTC boards. As in -

"Concentrate all firepower on that Super Star Destroyer!"

that's Admiral Ackbar for you.

although it more specifically references killing off the boss at all costs before mopping up the small fry...

==Aelryinth

Overlapping areas do suppress both effects temporarily within the overlap, but considering we had a long thread on the PFS forums a while ago about this (I was trying to make sure we didn't have GMs doing exactly what you describe to the PCs with enemies who have deeper darkness at will, so a few others and I made an effort to determine precisely what happens between light and darkness spells), I'd be surprised if you can show me where it says you can touch the items together to counter both spells. I'm always open to being wrong, though, if you have a quote.

the problem is the 'counter and dispels' wording. If it was an 'or', we'd be okay...we'd use whatever worked best.

If it counters the spell, it's used up. It does this at the same time it's dispelling the spell, because of the 'and' function. Thus, it can do it before a rival spell manifests and after it manifests.

I would personally love it if it worked the other way. I always thought it did, until I got into a row with Ashiel about it and really looked at all the language (the argument there was more about what happens when their areas overlap).

In effect, I truly believe they used the wrong language, as the "equal or lower level" language is basically worthless. Either your spell is used up countering a lower level spell, or the enemy's spell is used up countering and dispelling your lower level spell.

Meh!

==Aelryinth

The Exchange 5/5

Aelryinth wrote:

They counter and dispel one another if brought into contact, which generally means their area of effect, not center of effect.

snipping other stuff
==Aelryinth

I haven't seen anyone playing it this way in a long time. Most people have corrected this, realizing that the spells are cast on an object and radiate light out from there. The area of light is NOT an Area Of Effect (AOE). Realize that Elves see a lighted area with a radius 2X as large as a human... so if it was an AOE, it would be two different AOEs from the same spell, one for humans, one for elves....

The Exchange 5/5

There are so many other threads that cover the darkness/light issues, can we just take them off this one? just step over to the rules board and search for "darkness light", there's days of reading there.

5/5

Aelryinth wrote:


the problem is the 'counter and dispels' wording. If it was an 'or', we'd be okay...we'd use whatever worked best.

Sometimes an 'and' in a sentence can mean a logical 'or'. For instance, to use a silly Warcraft 3 quote as an example "This blade can cut through armor and still cut a tomato" implies that the blade is strong enough to cut through armor but precise enough to cut a tomato, not that the blade must cut through armor and a tomato at the same time. You also see it a lot in advertisements and occasionally in spell descriptions like the aforementioned.

EDIT: Also what nosig said.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Tactic for getting information from captives. Everyone always does the Intimadate/torture/threat-of-death thing. (Sigh!) Try this instead.

Diplomacy or Detect Thoughts:

My "Face" character is the PC in the party usually tasked with getting information from captives. She would often use Diplomacy:
"Darlin', things will go so much nicer for you if we could just be friends". She slids into bound individuals lap, "You'd be AMAZED what I can do for my friends... I'll have a few days free after this job, and I'd like to spend it with friends. You'd like to be my friend" wiggle-wiggle "wouldn't you?"

or if you have too...Intimidate:
Captive Uthdan Warrior: "Go ahead and kill me! I do not fear death, I will have died a warrior!"
Katisha: "Honey, I never kill people. No, I think I'll take you home with me, to my little country house just outside of Westgate. I could use another Page Boy..., Perhaps, if you're really 'good', in time you can work up to being a footman... We'll have such fun! My servants have these cute little uniforms!"

Or she just uses Detect Thoughts:
Use Detect Thoughts to get information from prisoners -

Katisha: "Who sent you to kill us?"
Mook: "You'll never make me talk!"
Kat: "Where did you first meet this masked man?"
Mook: "huh?"
Kat: "How much did he pay you? "
Mook "Hay! that's not fair!"
Kat: "and where did you put the money?"
Mook "Now wait, that MY money!"
Kat: "Where were you going to meet him after the job?"
Mook "La-la-la-la, I can't hear you!!"

Shadow Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Quandary wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:

Some epic high level tactics that I have seen:

1. In response to an enemy sorcerer casting, a level 10+ bard identified the spell (an empowered cone of cold), then ended his performance as an immediate action with heroic finale to grant himself an additional standard action. He used this action to shoot the caster, dealing enough damage...

Uh... How does that work?

I take it you were confused by the mention of 'immediately' in the spell description, but that doesn't change the actual action economy of the spell itself. The spell is a Level 4 STANDARD ACTION casting time spell. It's not even Swift, much less IMMEDIATE to interrupt another character's turn. If the Bard was readying this spell, then he could have readied any other spell just as well. (that was already somebody's advice: ready to cast a damaging spell, not counterspell)

He had a readied action to cast the spell in response to the sorcerer casting, not knowing who would benefit most from having said standard action in response to the cast. But yes, it is just a play on "ready to shoot him when he casts," but with more options.

EDIT: Also, bard's don't have great damaging spells. I think readying to give someone else the option to do the damaging if appropriate is often more beneficial.

For example, if the spell was on his comrade's spell list, then his ally could have easily counterspelled, or it it was a spell effect that wasn't terrible, then the fighter could have used the action to move out of range, etc etc.

The Exchange 5/5

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(Ok, I resisted for days. but I have to say it now...)

"Commonly Overlooked Tactics" - Take 10.

(I'll slink away now)

Grand Lodge

nosig wrote:

(Ok, I resisted for days. but I have to say it now...)

"Commonly Overlooked Tactics" - Take 10.

(I'll slink away now)

No, it's fine. it is overlooked. :P

I find it to be especially overlooked when trying to use aid someone on their skill check. Dont have a penalty to the skill? Just take 10 and grant it automatically. :P

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Unfortunately, Seth, Aid Another is specifically called out as a situation where you cannot Take 10.

Grand Lodge

Apparently Im going to have to look over the Take 10 section again. :P

Dark Archive

Seth Gipson wrote:
nosig wrote:

(Ok, I resisted for days. but I have to say it now...)

"Commonly Overlooked Tactics" - Take 10.

(I'll slink away now)

No, it's fine. it is overlooked. :P

I find it to be especially overlooked when trying to use aid someone on their skill check. Dont have a penalty to the skill? Just take 10 and grant it automatically. :P

Aiding is one of the areas where you cannot take 10. However, the person being aided may.

The Exchange 5/5

Seth Gipson wrote:
Apparently Im going to have to look over the Take 10 section again. :P

LOL! yeah. a lot of that going around.

;)


Familiars using ranged spells that work over several rounds. Reach calcific touch is one of my favorites. Low level burning gaze is fun.

The Exchange 5/5

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heck, this is a great thread. I keep thinking of things...

This one is for the PLAYER, not the PC.

Have more than one PC available. That means before the adventure starts - once you have the most of the table picked (other players and adventure), pick amoung your PCs by what the party needs. Check with everyone else about what they are playing. Balance the team. Is there 2 barbarians, a bard, and a Magus at the table? seems to me they need a Cleric... or maybe a Rogue. a 5th level cleric at that table (even at tier 6-7) would be better than another Barbarian (even a 7th level barbarian). This esp. works if the other players have more than one PC available too.

So many players have one PC. or maybe only one PC at a selected Tier. That's fine, just means they have no flexibility. Kind of like the Barbarian with only a Cold Iron Greatsword... and no other weapons. Sometimes it helps to have a backup....


nosig wrote:

My wife often runs arcane casters, and she's fond of unusual tactics with invisibility

Picture this:
A rogue in the front of the party listening at a door hears somethings, so my wife slides her Sorcerer forward and says "be sure to act surprised!" and casts invisibility on the door. Says to the judge "Our light shines into the room, while we look surpised, what do we see? do we have to make a bluff roll?"

I'm hopeing she does this sometime to a caster who drops a fireball on us... that blows up on the invisible door. She has had a Mook charge us... into the door. Her comment was "that's gonna leave a mark!" we never did find out if she ment on the door or the mook...

That's bloody brilliant and I'm going to do that.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
nosig wrote:

My wife often runs arcane casters, and she's fond of unusual tactics with invisibility

Picture this:
A rogue in the front of the party listening at a door hears somethings, so my wife slides her Sorcerer forward and says "be sure to act surprised!" and casts invisibility on the door. Says to the judge "Our light shines into the room, while we look surpised, what do we see? do we have to make a bluff roll?"

I'm hopeing she does this sometime to a caster who drops a fireball on us... that blows up on the invisible door. She has had a Mook charge us... into the door. Her comment was "that's gonna leave a mark!" we never did find out if she ment on the door or the mook...

That's bloody brilliant and I'm going to do that.

So what constitutes carrying for invisibility? If I'm holding onto the door and cast invisibility on myself, could I include the door in my casting since I'm holding onto it?(assuming I have a high enough cl for the weight as well for an overly retentive DM)


Shfish wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
nosig wrote:

My wife often runs arcane casters, and she's fond of unusual tactics with invisibility

Picture this:
A rogue in the front of the party listening at a door hears somethings, so my wife slides her Sorcerer forward and says "be sure to act surprised!" and casts invisibility on the door. Says to the judge "Our light shines into the room, while we look surpised, what do we see? do we have to make a bluff roll?"

I'm hopeing she does this sometime to a caster who drops a fireball on us... that blows up on the invisible door. She has had a Mook charge us... into the door. Her comment was "that's gonna leave a mark!" we never did find out if she ment on the door or the mook...

That's bloody brilliant and I'm going to do that.
So what constitutes carrying for invisibility? If I'm holding onto the door and cast invisibility on myself, could I include the door in my casting since I'm holding onto it?(assuming I have a high enough cl for the weight as well for an overly retentive DM)

In this case the door is an object touched. The caster isn't carrying it and doesn't become invisible.

Further I'd consider "carrying" to mean supporting. They're not supporting the door unless they take it off the hinges and throw it across their back.

3/5

Chris Mortika wrote:

At Rockcon, one of my players was running a wizard, and there were NPC archers holding actions, waiting for im to start casting so they could disrupt his spell. His move action was "Gesture and chant, like I'm casting a spell." Attacks, hits, damage. Then his standard action was "Cast the spell."

I mentioned this to a couple other GMs at the convention. We'd run over 500 tables among us, and we'd never seen anybody do that.

Yes I do this standard, if I have reason to believe someone is holding an action.

Also fun is to use spell with no somatic or material components. (quickened) Without spell casting how you going to know?

Or.. pull out a wand and fire. Since they readied on spellcasting...

The Exchange 5/5

Perfect Tommy wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

At Rockcon, one of my players was running a wizard, and there were NPC archers holding actions, waiting for im to start casting so they could disrupt his spell. His move action was "Gesture and chant, like I'm casting a spell." Attacks, hits, damage. Then his standard action was "Cast the spell."

I mentioned this to a couple other GMs at the convention. We'd run over 500 tables among us, and we'd never seen anybody do that.

Yes I do this standard, if I have reason to believe someone is holding an action.

Also fun is to use spell with no somatic or material components. (quickened) Without spell casting how you going to know?

Or.. pull out a wand and fire. Since they readied on spellcasting...

I don't know... I might give them the attack if the target was using a wand (that would still be spell casting in my opinion). This does cut both ways though... I'd use it on the PCs too. (it might depend on the written tactics for the "monster").

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Perfect Tommy wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

At Rockcon, one of my players was running a wizard, and there were NPC archers holding actions, waiting for im to start casting so they could disrupt his spell. His move action was "Gesture and chant, like I'm casting a spell." Attacks, hits, damage. Then his standard action was "Cast the spell."

I mentioned this to a couple other GMs at the convention. We'd run over 500 tables among us, and we'd never seen anybody do that.

Yes I do this standard, if I have reason to believe someone is holding an action.

Also fun is to use spell with no somatic or material components. (quickened) Without spell casting how you going to know?

Or.. pull out a wand and fire. Since they readied on spellcasting...

I have an arcane trickster/oracle(deaf) that has the secret signs and eshew materials feats. He routinely casts spells that no one knows is happening. It is up to the DM, but many have been gracious to allow that as an option for sneak attack because they "don't see it coming"..though I don't plan that will always work...just nice when it does.

5/5 RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 aka Sir_Wulf

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In my experience, web is an excellent "counterspell". More than 20 feet of web gives full cover, so when the enemy starts casting, your readied caster blocks his line of sight and line of effect...

Liberty's Edge

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To blatantly steal an idea I liked from a certain internet personality's VLog, I present the "bardic knock spell." Got a locked door? Have everyone ready actions and then... knock on it. It helps if you can hear someone on the other side. If you're lucky, they might be dumb enough to open the door for you. Otherwise, you might just be able to bluff them into doing the same. This can come in handy, since bluff tends to be a more common skill than disable device.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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After reading through this thread, I'd have to say the most commonly overlooked tactic (for both players and GMs) is to thoroughly familiarize yourself with the mechanics you intend to employ. ;)

Silver Crusade

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Gnoll Bard wrote:
To blatantly steal an idea I liked from a certain internet personality's VLog, I present the "bardic knock spell." Got a locked door? Have everyone ready actions and then... knock on it. It helps if you can hear someone on the other side. If you're lucky, they might be dumb enough to open the door for you. Otherwise, you might just be able to bluff them into doing the same. This can come in handy, since bluff tends to be a more common skill than disable device.

"Candygram"

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