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you could also invest in Wild armor, as it functions like beast shape (polymorph effect), you can tack that on to some armor and boost your AC at some point.
its cute. definitely worth taking dodge/mobility to help the AC vs the AoOs for moving into people's squares though. possibly the underfoot feats if you can qualify for them somehow.
fizzgig
I am pretty sure claws would stack with fox shape. May I suggest looking at savage barbarian archetype too? An urban savage barbarian may sound silly, but without it you won't have any sort of AC while in fox form once you get to mid-levels.
They would. As per the polymorph rules, effects that add onto a creature's form specifically stack with polymorph effects.
So, for example, having the 1st-level bloodrager bloodline power from the Draconic bloodline would allow your Fox Form to grow claws while polymorphed because its an add-on to whatever your current form happens to be. But if you were a ranger with the Aspect of the Beast feat, the claws that you gain from Aspect of the Beast don't stack with your polymorph effect because even though those claws are a class option, they're not use activated.
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Soft foxy, warm foxy, little ball of fur.
Fuzzy foxy, angry foxy, grr, grr, grr.
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Kitsune - Fox Form & Rage - Tiny Ball of Fur
Shouldn't that be Tiny ball of Furry?
If the 5' rule were the general for tiny creatures they would never provoke from movement unless they entered someone's square. This is not the case.
In general if a tiny or smaller creature enters another's square it provokes. The exact text from 5' step however is that it "never provokes." This is an application of the specific overriding the general.
Further if tiny creatures specifically could not negate AoOs by 5' stepping there would be specific text saying "this AoO is not negated by a 5' step." That would equally be a case of the specific overriding the general. This is however, not the case.
A 5' step does not "negate" any AoO. It is a specific action that itself never provokes an AoO. It has no effect on other AoOs that are otherwise provoked.
The rules for small creatures say:
Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can't reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent's square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent.
5' stepping to enter an opponents square does not provoke. Entering the square does. If the tiny creature were to use a normal move to enter the square it would provoke twice, once for moving out of a threatened square and once for entering an opponent's square.
To answer your question: Yes, barbarian totem claws will stack with the fox effect. The claws aren't polymorph effects. The polymorph rules explicitly say that class features that modify your form carry over to the polymorphed form, citing sorcerers growing claws as an example.
The unchained barbarian is very Dex friendly. Ask your GM if he will let you take Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred Press's Path of War. The most balanced Dex-to-damage solution I've seen. A dip in mouser swashbuckler would be a great thematic choice and give you Weapon Finesse for free (though might have to ask your GM to let you apply it to all your natural attacks). Ask if options from Kitsune Compendium are available.
I started an FAQ here for the 5 foot step provoking and why for precisely this reason: I have a similar character i just started.
I'm going to stick urban barbarian, mouser swashbuckler and unchained rogue with the vexing dodger archetype in a blender and see what happens. He moves into your space, gives you a -4 to hit anyone else, and eventually a -6 to hit anyone else and -6+ to hit him.
You can definitely grow the claws. (Polymorph section, magic chapter)
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function
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I started an FAQ here for the 5 foot step provoking and why for precisely this reason: I have a similar character i just started.
I'm going to stick urban barbarian, mouser swashbuckler and unchained rogue with the vexing dodger archetype in a blender and see what happens. He moves into your space, gives you a -4 to hit anyone else, and eventually a -6 to hit anyone else and -6+ to hit him.
Make sure to take monkey style too.
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Most of these builds tend to converge, despite differences in class levels.
One key challenge is ensuring the foe doesn't simply ignore you. Most intelligent creatures will learn to simply move away from you and attack someone else.
With Mouser or Monkey Shine, they will provoke when they leave the square. They really won't want to provoke from this little ball of furry death.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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5' stepping to enter an opponents square does not provoke. Entering the square does.
Call it table variance, because while your interpretation is RAW, so is the other.
Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity.
... Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.
Never isn't tied to movement out of a threatened square. Never includes leaving a threatened square and entering an opponent square.
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Here's the Foxy Songbird build I am currently working on (up to level 3). Note that this requires a trait - Adopted, plus the Aasimar one that lets you make a TN/NG Monk, required to be a Monkbarian. Also, it doesn't take Fox Shape until 5, since you're unlikely to have the necessary Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists until this point and you get more mileage out of the other feats. For my other trait, I'm using Dangerously Curious, since you can get a lot of mileage out of wands of things like Mage Armor.
1. Barbarian (Unchained) [Weapon Finesse]
2. Fighter (Unarmed Fighter) [Bonus: Monkey Style]
3. Monk (Master of Many Styles/Kata Master) [Snake Style, Bonus: Snake Fang]
4. Barbarian (Unchained) [Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem]
5. Monk (MoMS/Kata Master) [Fox Shape, Bonus: Monkey Shine]
6. Swashbuckler (Mouser)
You've got all the core necessities at this point. I'm planning on taking most of the rest of the levels as Barbarian just to get more rounds of Rage, since you need it for your claws (but you are still quite effective even without it making Unarmed Strikes and Bite). Probably another level of Fighter for the level 2 bonus feat. You'll need Combat Reflexes at 7 to fully capitalize on Snake Fang (possibly even push back Monkey Shine and Mouser to get this sooner), and probably Piranha Strike at 9.
This also gets around the AOO issue because you *want* them to be making AOOs, you'll get to counter-attack most of them :)
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Hence the vexing dodger.
"I move away...
"It comes with you... he's REALLY stuck on your leg...
Nice, I like that.
I don't think the Giant Hunter's Handbook was out when I was designing my fox. I'll have to see if I can squeeze a level of rogue in.
Hmmn... it doesn't say the Vexing Dodger moves with the climbed creature, however. While this is a reasonable assumption to make, if allowed, it does create some bizarre rules situations which may be hard to adjudicate.
Well, leaving that way won't trigger the mouser ability (because he doesn't leave your square) otherwise its pretty straitforward.
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5 foot step away would be covered by a 5 foot step following (and you get your AOO from Underfoot Assault). For other movement, would Stand Still help? Spend your AOO on a Combat Maneuver to stop their movement before they escape rather than damage (then pummel them with Snake Fang for actual damage). Since you're near full BAB and have +4 from Monkey Shine, you should have a very good chance to succeed.
I guess the question would be if you could use your Underfoot Assault AOO on Stand Still. If they made normal movement, they'd provoke from moving out, but with a Withdraw action, they would get out of your square (you'd ping them for damage but not stop them), then you have no reach. Then again, Withdraw is full round and you can charge back into their square the next round, meaning they don't accomplish anything but moving around while you chip away.
I guess the question would be if you could use your Underfoot Assault AOO on Stand Still. If they made normal movement, they'd provoke from moving out, but with a Withdraw action, they would get out of your square (you'd ping them for damage but not stop them), then you have no reach. Then again, Withdraw is full round and you can charge back into their square the next round, meaning they don't accomplish anything but moving around while you chip away.
Yes, and that wording looks deliberate.
but if the foe attempts to move to a position where the mouser is no longer in its space, the movement provokes an attack of opportunity from the mouser
emphasis mine. You don't need to succeed on moving you just need to try. It seems to be written specifically for movement stopping attacks to trigger.
Opponent attempts to 5 foot step
AOO goes off
AOO hits
Movement blocker kicks in.
Movement doesn't occur.
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Yes, I got into that debate about the definition of Adjacent regarding using Step Up for a similar fuzzy foxy purpose. My personal interpretation has always included my own square, but I understand that causes problems for other things. Yet another item in the long list of "we could have used an FAQ on this 4 years ago".
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Aha, found another trick to stack on this. If you're taking Unchained Barbarian levels anyway, you can use the No Escape rage power to chase down the target as an immediate action and end up adjacent to them. This will put you in range to 5 Foot Step into their square when it gets back to your turn.
That said, I'm actually thinking it might be better to stop after Barbarian 2. Take those levels as either Fighter or Swashbuckler, using the bonus feats to make room to get Extra Rage to cover your rounds of rage per day.
Berzerker of the society will net you 2 rounds of rage. You only need to rage when you full attack, that will cut a little bit off of what most barbarians need.
More table variation: Since you don't have hands, you can't climb
Thats beyond ridiculous. As in go home, find the cover of my core rule book, re tape the cover to the core rule book, and then whap them on the head with it levels of ridiculous. I realize that people may not realize that gray foxes are almost arboreal and even red foxes can climb trees, but surely they've heard of cats before?
I believe that jumping your own height was a 3.5 thing. I don't see it on the srd.
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My fox-form PFS guy has just gotten to lvl 4. I used first level for Swash/Mouser, 2nd level for unarmed fighter with monkey style, 3rd level for iroran paladin (for flurry +) and 4th for MoMS monk with monkey shine. AC is around 22 in fox form, before mage armour from wand. Monkey feats can get an extra +4 against guy I'm in. From there, fill up with paladin levels for the self healing (lay on paws!) and extra AC from cha bonus. Plus bonuses to saves as well. Waiting for the agile amulet is annoying, but will come together soon.
Per Occultist for agile - how are you getting that for attacks with the fox form? You can't wield the weapons you enhance and I doubt you can enhance your own unarmed attacks in this way (unlocking my fists legacy legendary powers?!).
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Why not go Slayer/Ranger 2 for Aspect of the Beast: (Claws) instead of Barbarian? Or would they disappear when in Fox Shape?
Expect Table variation. I maintain that they would not because the feat is the source of the claws, not your original form. Thus they would be usable while polymorphed just as bloodline claws. Others maintain that the feat adds claws to your original form, and are thus lost while under a polymorph effect.
Check with your GM, and if playing PFS assume the more restrictive ruling.
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Just to let everyone know.
This is a three year old thread.
Dunno why it got bumped, but since 95% of the actual content is current, I don't see the problem here :)
The reason I avoided Ranger is that as mentioned, by strict reading of the Polymorph rules, it only applies to your base form.
Another claw option: either a Sorcerer dip or Eldritch Heritage for Draconic Bloodline. It's a limited number of rounds per day (3 + CHA), but unlike Rage, you can split the rounds up without fatigue when you're moving around and just use it when you need a damage bump instead of getting locked in for a combat. This could also lead you into Dragon Disciple - parts of it are redundant (you don't need the STR boosts, although they will at least help your CMD), but getting decent BAB as well as spellcasting to pre-buff yourself is fairly attractive.
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The reason I avoided Ranger is that as mentioned, by strict reading of the Polymorph rules, it only applies to your base form.
I don't want to derail this, but I really do believe that the claws granted by Aspect of the Beast should apply. I've been through the arguments before, but if you look at the prerequisites of the feat, you need to be a shapeshifter via wild shape or being a lycanthrope to take the feat (ignoring the cheating rangers.) The feat allows you to grow a pair of claws, just as a sorcerer bloodline. There just isn't any limit to the times per day that you can do so.
That said, as I said before, expect table variation.