Succubus in a grapple.

[The Forum Police]

This thread has reached the Maximum Silliness Limit. Return to serious discussion immediately, citizens.

[wraithstrike]

With context to grappling both creatures have the "grappled" condition, but generally speaking the person that is not controlling the grapple is the one that is considered to be grappled, otherwise he would not have the option to just let the other creature go. In short, one creature is definitely in control of the grapple.

[Jhidurievdrioshka]

This does sort of bring up the same type of important point going on in a few other posts like when a paladin falls and does my character drown on the sinking ship even after the gm has warned him ad nauseum to get off the ship... (in that thread there were many warnings but none explicit enough to say 'look. if you dont go now you're fish food, period')

The question is do you warn a character before they do something stupid, and do you spell out clearly what the stupid is that's going to happen before hand.

If you're planning to drain him when he grapples the succubus, do you mention to him that going in for a grapple is going to be making him vulnerable to a drain... Do you have the discussion beforehand and give them a chance to change their mind? Or are you the kind of gm that just says 'go right ahead'

and after its too late saying 'so.... hows that working out for you'...

[wraithstrike]

If the PC(character) has no knowledge of the succubus's drain ability then I would say no, but if the PC does, but then I would let the player know.

[Nicos]

Evil surprises are part of the fun.

[aeglos]

dot

[PatientWolf]

What have you all done to the grappling succubus thread :( I can't believe it has devolved into a discussion of actual rules!!!

[Lamontius]

I think you clearly warn a newer player of them about to do something completely terrible, especially if that terrible thing has a high chance of getting them killed for negligible to no potential gain.

In this case, however, the action is both terrible and hilarious so I would make a *snrk* sound, cover my mouth and tell the player to make his CMB check.

[Adamantine Dragon]

I still think this thread deserves an illustrated centerfold in the messageboard hall of fame.

[Lamontius]

I would read it for the articles.

[Malachi Silverclaw]

My friend visited my over Christmas to role-play. He asked if he could bring several scantily-clad Thai women. I asked him if they had pre-rolled their characters.

[Cthulhudrew]

Adamantine Dragon wrote:

Hmm... I suppose that means it matters how passionate the monk is about holding the succubus down.

Must... resist... Mel Gibson "Passion" joke... must!!!

[Cthulhudrew]

It just occurred to me: if this thread dies and someone later reopens it, would that be Necrophilia?

[Robert Young]

It seems that the free action to release the grapple could come into play here. There are some free actions allowed when it isn't your turn, but the gm may have to decide. Remember, even an immediate action "represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action".

Also, I'm pretty sure that bear was shaved.

[Malachi Silverclaw]

Cthulhudrew wrote:

It just occurred to me: if this thread dies and someone later reopens it, would that be Necrophilia?

Given that the hot druid was a bear, it could also be bestiality. With all the bondage going on as well, I could make a joke here, but that would be like flogging a dead horse.

[thunderspirit]

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Cthulhudrew wrote:

It just occurred to me: if this thread dies and someone later reopens it, would that be Necrophilia?

Given that the hot druid was a bear, it could also be bestiality. With all the bondage going on as well, I could make a joke here, but that would be like flogging a dead horse.

Regardless of the relative hotness, a dead horse would turn this into necrobestiality.

[ProximaC]

So... did Mikaze ever finish that short story?

[TOZ]

I think he got...distracted.

[Sin of Asmodeus]

I have no idea where my thread is going. But there seems to be a hot winged chick, in a hand basket, that's been oiled down and looks ready to erm wrestle / grapple?
This should so be a WWE storyline.
Overall the consensus, would be to deliberate more on this issues as they grapple together... right?
Drain away?

[Dark_Mistress]

Lathiira wrote:

Wow, no posts in two days. I guess the succubus finally ran out of steam...or is she finally satisfied? Come to think of it, I'd love to hear what DarkMistress has to say :)

RL has been a issue, have not been around much of all for a couple of months.

With that said, it is a pointless discussion. No one is ever unwilling, so the grapple issue is a moot point. So topic closed.

[Pendin Fust]

Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

I have no idea where my thread is going. But there seems to be a hot winged chick, in a hand basket, that's been oiled down and looks ready to erm wrestle / grapple?

This should so be a WWE storyline.
Overall the consensus, would be to deliberate more on this issues as they grapple together... right?
Drain away?

Ture Resurrecting!!!

Drain away...and deliberate indeed. Master deliberation.

Hmm...Pathfinder flavored WWE. The special effects budget would be astronomical!

[Lamontius]

Forget about WWE, I am using Red Goblin's "King of the Ring" supplement to roll up:

Jaustin Jaries, The Greatest Halfing Who Ever Lived.

Being able to scream, "BRRRRRRAAAAAIIIINNNNNBUSSSSSTTTAAAAHHHHHH!" at my GM is priceless.

Also, I love this thread so much.

[chaiboy]

Lamontius wrote:

Can we just pretend that she wasn't shapeshifted into a bear?

Well once the kiss started the druid would loose levels and loose the shape shifting ability...

[chaiboy]

Qunnessaa wrote:

I think I would rule that a pin or a hold - I'm afraid I'm not keen on wrestling, so I'm not sure quite sure what the exact difference is

Definitely need pictures of pinned succubi and held succubi....

Learning can be fun

[chaiboy]

Gaekub wrote:

Ssalarn wrote:

Gaekub wrote:

Lamontius wrote:

Guys, if this isn't a more pressing issue than talking about why people hate paladins, then I don't know what is.

Does a Paladin fall for grappling a Succubus? What about if there's a panda involved?

Yes. But pandas are furry and adorable and come with Atonement bamboo.

If a Paladin pins and ties up a Succubus, does it conflict with his Bonded Mount class feature?

Slow Clap....well played sir, well played

[chaiboy]

PatientWolf wrote:

Lamontius wrote:

No no no no no
The paladin thread is that way.

Well the paladin thread does contain relevant information to this thread in the form of the question of if the paladin can lay hands on the succubus during a grapple. My thought is that he can lay hands all over her in a grapple

Edit: Will he lose his paladin status for laying hands on a succubus and if so will he need to atone by being punished for being a naughty naughty boy.

i think the Paladin would have to atone for just seeing the druid grappling the succubus especially if the wizard hit them with a grease spell to help the druid get free... honest thats the reason he used it...

[chaiboy]

As for rules. I think the whole point is that you come in physical contact with her. it can be a kiss a caress or just bare skin touching. I would allow the succubus to steal a level. If someone went and grabbed a succubus they just gave away a free level. So i think the ruling was correct. I'd rule it the same way and then have them try to escape her grapple once they realized their mistake.

Honestly that was a really bad move on the druids part... well not that bad we would never have gotten such a great thread otherwise.

[Jhidurievdrioshka]

So we've invoked the power of this

to create one of these?

[Malachi Silverclaw]

chaiboy wrote:

Qunnessaa wrote:

I think I would rule that a pin or a hold - I'm afraid I'm not keen on wrestling, so I'm not sure quite sure what the exact difference is

Definitely need pictures of pinned succubi and held succubi....

Learning can be fun

(seconds out....round two...!)

The pursuit of knowledge is it's own reward. : )

[Daynen]

Succubus monk.

Best. Monster. Ever.

That is all.

[Happler]

Daynen wrote:

Succubus monk.

Best. Monster. Ever.

That is all.

Could be a very flexible playstyle.

[Lamontius]

I wanted to come back and post in good threads but I could not find one
so this is happening

[LazarX]

Mikaze wrote:

I don't know....I can see a grappler managing a succubus-proof hold...

Attack from behind, grappler's arms up under the succubus' arms, reaching back and pulling those arms back, reach back under the succubus' wings, push them up, hands on the back of the succubus' head, holding that down, pin to the ground, knee on the back.

Completely non-sexy hold on the monk's part, and nothing the succubus can do on her part.

I'd throw in incubi handling scenarios too for equal time, but they apparently work very differently

edit-Actually, coming up with pinning visuals and strategies for beings with unusual symmetries is kinda fun. That could be a thread all on its own...

Your tactic executes as described if the following conditions are met.

1. You achieve and score a grapple against the succubi's flatfooted CMD.

2. You win inititative in the first round of normal combat and acheive a PIN.

If you don't fulfill condition 2, then all you have is a grapple and you did not achieve the armlock you were hoping for. In which case the succubus is free to make her kiss on you.

Basically what you need is to achieve a pin for the results to match the description above.

[Lathiira]

Me, I'm trying to figure out why anyone would be going through the trouble to resist....

[Alzrius]

Grapple the succubus first, and then show her your "bull rush."

[Mal-Duroth]

Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

So, I recently was running a game, in which I had a succubus to play around with, and one of the characters ran up and grappled her.

On her turn I stated. Okay, we are grappled. We both have the grappled condition, with you being the grappler, so I um. Level drain you.

As it states, a succubus must be in a grapple to perform her Kiss / drain. Am I in the wrong for level draining the grappler who had me held up?

Sounds like that character did 80% of succubus' work for her. Totally legit.

[SmiloDan]

OMG! I just remembered that one of my first 3.0 PCs, a human paladin 2/cleric X, got in a grapple with a succubus at one point.

He made a lot of huge mistakes.

[Cydeth]

Hmm...for one game I built a succubus who specialized in grappling..'tis a disgusting thing. The character is horrible in actual combat, but if she manages to get her claws on the other person...game over.

[Vamptastic]

I think a Succubus' worst enemy would be an all Warforged party.

[Krinn]

At some point I had an enemy wizard who summoned a succubus to fight against the PCs... at one point, the wizard casted black hentacles and dimension door'd away... in a safe spot to scry the area... the tentacles couldn't "harm" the succubus (1d6+4 vs DR 10) but they got the party in a pretty bad situation... all... those... grappe... checks...
the one with freedom of movement also miserably failed the will save to reach the succubus and "save" her from the hentacles :D

[Pendin Fust]

Hentai-cles. Heh.

[Malachi Silverclaw]

I should really go in there and rescue her. From those tentacles. Those...writhing...tentacles...

Yep.

I'll rescue her.

From those...tentacles...

Yep.

Any...minute...now...!

[Chrysanthe Spiros]

Ohohohoo, this is a rather delicious scene...

[Randomknight]

Figured I'd be a late comer and add my two cents since some people may actually read the end of the post and gain some benefit from it now that they are relaxed and near sleeping...
My take on it is, Supernatural ability = standard action because the act of passion was not specified. Even while grappled, you can take an action via light weapon etc instead of trying to reverse or break the grapple, but it is not automatic, you have to roll to succeed. What is needed to succeed? A touch attack with the mouth to perform the kiss or the act of passion. I think they said "such as a kiss" because they couldn't specifically say what else could be done with the mouth in regards to an "act of passion" And since a touch attack should be fairly easy to perform on a person you are grappling with, the succubus is very likely going to get away with it anyway.
As far as being pinned, I would rule no, her head would be controlled by the pinner, and though she may like that, drain could not be done without the pinner's consent.

[TheLoneCleric]

Wow...just wow. I hearby label this thread: The kinkiest way to die.

[Sissyl]

So, I was with you guys as far as greased-down succubus and hot druid wrestling in the area of a black tentacles spell...

[Rerednaw]

SoA wrote:

So, I recently was running a game, in which I had a succubus to play around with, and one of the characters ran up and grappled her.

On her turn I stated. Okay, we are grappled. We both have the grappled condition, with you being the grappler, so I um. Level drain you.

As it states, a succubus must be in a grapple to perform her Kiss / drain. Am I in the wrong for level draining the grappler who had me held up?

TLDR;

To answer, nope.

A succubus can use her ED (Su) attack on a target that has the grapple condition.

PRD wrote:

Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

So by RAW:

1) Succy can ED any target that has the grappled condition, regardless of whether the target is the one who initiated the grappled or the subject of one (or in control as that can change).

2) Succy *cannot* use her ED (Su) against a helpless, unconscious, paralyzed, etc... creature. This I don't understand. Isn't helpless worse than grappled? Though the text is pretty clear. Or is there a separate section in the rules regarding helpless targets?

3) Succy with Freedom (ring, cleric domain, etc...) in a zone of Black Tentacles that is dropped over a group of foes sounds like a interesting strategy.

[Kwauss]

Ssalarn wrote:

Adamantine Dragon wrote:

Again, all joking aside, this seems pretty clear. If you can do a full attack or cast a spell while grappled, it seems pretty obvious that a succubus could lock somewhere on the grappler to accomplish her nefarious level draining goals.

I think the idea of grappling is that there's all kinds of squirming, wriggling, jiggling and waggling going on, which would seem to favor the succubus's favored attack...

This is a mechanically infallible defense. I'm pretty sure "there's all kinds of squirming, wriggling, jiggling and waggling going on" is straight out of the book for a description of grappling.

The book of Marital Arts?

[Salvatoire]

Man that thread is SO hilarious