Succubus in a grapple.


Rules Questions

251 to 300 of 1,858 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | next > last >>

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PatientWolf wrote:
Alzrius wrote:

While the RAW is unclear, I'd rule that a succubus that was pinned couldn't use her energy drain attack.

I have to disagree. I find that IRL I am often drained after successfully grappling with a succubus. Maybe you're doing it wrong.

Grappling yes. Pinned no. :-p

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I could find pictures of this scene, but doubt I could link to them without violating forum rules.


8 people marked this as a favorite.

If anyone’s still reading this thread for rule insights rather than naughty innuendo, you’ll be interested to know that the PC druid wildshaped into a bear, or any other combatant with the Grab ability, could grapple a succubus without giving her a free shot at an energy drain attack:

Quote:
Grab: If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity...The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.

I envision this option as the bear-form druid holding the struggling succubus by her paws at arm’s length, eyes (and lips!] prudishly averted.

In this case, the succubus would have to make a combat maneuver check to take control of the grapple before she could drain levels. I envision this as...well, that’s private.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A good catch, Emmit. That's a pretty rough minus, though, to be able to grapple without gaining the condition oneself.

Oh, and I love you guys.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Emmit Svenson wrote:

If anyone’s still reading this thread for rule insights rather than naughty innuendo, you’ll be interested to know that the PC druid wildshaped into a bear, or any other combatant with the Grab ability, could grapple a succubus without giving her a free shot at an energy drain attack:

Quote:
Grab: If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity...The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.

I envision this option as the bear-form druid holding the struggling succubus by her paws at arm’s length, eyes (and lips!] prudishly averted.

In this case, the succubus would have to make a combat maneuver check to take control of the grapple before she could drain levels. I envision this as...well, that’s private.

Bear in mind (see what I did there?) that this would only work if the druid was at least 6th level, as that's when her wild shape functions like beast shape II, which is the first version of the spell that grants the grab ability (if the base creature has it, which the bear does). If she's trying to do that at 4th or 5th level, she's out of luck, and the succubus is getting lucky.

EDIT: Not that she could become a bear at 4th or 5th level anyway, since bears are large and at those levels she can only wild shape into a small or medium creature.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Starfinder Superscriber

And heavens help you if those claws get near that succubus' mouth....


Ssalarn wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Nearly five hours ago several people on this thread suggested that pictures would help them adjudicate the action. I've got an Internet, so I wondered if they had any pictures of succubi/grapples....

....sorry I've been so long. What was the question again?

Go ahead and Google "Succubus grapple" and let us know what comes of it.

Or don't.

Google recently made changes to their algorithms that make porn more difficult to find. Bing however yields good results.


Alzrius wrote:
Emmit Svenson wrote:

If anyone’s still reading this thread for rule insights rather than naughty innuendo, you’ll be interested to know that the PC druid wildshaped into a bear, or any other combatant with the Grab ability, could grapple a succubus without giving her a free shot at an energy drain attack:

Quote:
Grab: If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity...The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.

I envision this option as the bear-form druid holding the struggling succubus by her paws at arm’s length, eyes (and lips!] prudishly averted.

In this case, the succubus would have to make a combat maneuver check to take control of the grapple before she could drain levels. I envision this as...well, that’s private.

Bear in mind (see what I did there?) that this would only work if the druid was at least 6th level, as that's when her wild shape functions like beast shape II, which is the first version of the spell that grants the grab ability (if the base creature has it, which the bear does). If she's trying to do that at 4th or 5th level, she's out of luck, and the succubus is getting lucky.

EDIT: Not that she could become a bear at 4th or 5th level anyway, since bears are large and at those levels she can only wild shape into a small or medium creature.

That's actually rather interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind for any Succubi related grappling; since otherwise it looks like you're screwed by RAW.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Heh, RAW, RAI or Rule 34, I think the best advice to give players is to avoid grappling with succubi in the first place.

In terms of my own ruling as a GM, frankly unless you do the -20 thing Emmit describes, if the Succubus gets a standard action while in grapple with you, you're gonna get targeted for a level drain. If you really want the details of how it happened, I'll happily describe it for you, but there's no way you're gonna be all wrapped up in a sweaty, jiggling, waggling, succubus and somehow avoid her ability to passionately ... er... engage you.

Now, let's put this thing to bed and wrap it all up in shiny red... uh leather straps... and ... um... probably gonna need the sorcerer to cast grease... yeah, to help... escape... that's right...

Hey! How'd the sorcerer get in here too? Now that's just not right...


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, you should avoid grappling the succubus...

...if you hate fun.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Hey! How'd the sorcerer get in here too? Now that's just not right...

Seoni has joined the grapple! Wait, now she's reaching down to...

...whip out her lizard!

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Adamantine Dragon wrote:

Heh, RAW, RAI or Rule 34, I think the best advice to give players is to avoid grappling with succubi in the first place.

In terms of my own ruling as a GM, frankly unless you do the -20 thing Emmit describes, if the Succubus gets a standard action while in grapple with you, you're gonna get targeted for a level drain. If you really want the details of how it happened, I'll happily describe it for you, but there's no way you're gonna be all wrapped up in a sweaty, jiggling, waggling, succubus and somehow avoid her ability to passionately ... er... engage you.

Now, let's put this thing to bed and wrap it all up in shiny red... uh leather straps... and ... um... probably gonna need the sorcerer to cast grease... yeah, to help... escape... that's right...

Hey! How'd the sorcerer get in here too? Now that's just not right...

Just so we are clear, you should avoid grappling a succubus but it is ok to watch a bare flexible druidess engage in a passionate grapple with a sweaty, jiggly, bouncy, lustful succubus?

Ummm..if you all need me I'll be in my bunk.

Scarab Sages

4 people marked this as a favorite.
PatientWolf wrote:


Just so we are clear, you should avoid grappling a succubus but it is ok to watch a bare flexible druidess engage in a passionate grapple with a sweaty, jiggly, bouncy, lustful succubus?

Are you asking if the succubus minds voyeurism?

She is passionatly opposed to people watching without participating.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
PatientWolf wrote:
Nether Saxon wrote:
So, to come back to the topic of a hot female paladin alongside the bare bear-shifted flexible druid and her suckubus... succubus grappling toy, would it be safe for the paladin to Lay her bare Hands on the druid to let her feel some of her manyfold mercies?

So now we have the hot female paladin laying hands on the druid as she grapples the succubus as the succubus sucks her levels.

Can the hot female paladin use aid another to assist the flexible bare druid? What if they are flanking the grappled succubus?

Wait, I'm getting a visual. Ooh, it's a succubi sandwich!

Digital Products Assistant

Removed two posts. Please keep this on topic and about the rules question that was asked.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

This thread deserves a sticky.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grimmy wrote:
This thread deserves a sticky.

A sticky what?

And as it occurs to me that I haven't actually made a reference to the original question, I'd let a succubus level drain when grappled for the reasons mentioned above. It fits both the flavor and the rules, so go for it.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

johnlocke90 wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Nearly five hours ago several people on this thread suggested that pictures would help them adjudicate the action. I've got an Internet, so I wondered if they had any pictures of succubi/grapples....

....sorry I've been so long. What was the question again?

Go ahead and Google "Succubus grapple" and let us know what comes of it.

Or don't.
Google recently made changes to their algorithms that make porn more difficult to find. Bing however yields good results.

Yet another reason to take the "Bing Challenge".

Anyone got an ETA on those pictures of the subject matter we were supposed to be getting? I believe we were also promised a story about a monk grappling a succubus earlier in the thread, whatever happened to that?


Emmit Svenson wrote:

If anyone’s still reading this thread for rule insights rather than naughty innuendo, you’ll be interested to know that the PC druid wildshaped into a bear, or any other combatant with the Grab ability, could grapple a succubus without giving her a free shot at an energy drain attack:

Quote:
Grab: If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity...The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.

I envision this option as the bear-form druid holding the struggling succubus by her paws at arm’s length, eyes (and lips!] prudishly averted.

In this case, the succubus would have to make a combat maneuver check to take control of the grapple before she could drain levels. I envision this as...well, that’s private.

Yeah. The wording on that energy drain ability is super vague. It doesn't specify what kind of action is, which would make it a standard normally, but it specifies you must be grappling. Using a standard action by itself, while grappling, would cause you to stop grappling, so that's out. All that leaves is one of those things you can do for free after making a successful grapple check, so yeah. At some point the succubus needs to beat your CMD to drain you, and can't manage it if pinned. That's how I'd rule it anyway.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Today we are secretly swopping the succubus's regular Feats with Improved Natural Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Greater Grapple. Let’s watch what the party dose!!!


10 people marked this as a favorite.
Zotpox wrote:
Today we are secretly swopping the succubus's regular Feats with Improved Natural Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Greater Grapple. Let’s watch what the party dose!!!

"Well hey there lil' lady, how about you and I go and AGGGGGHHHH MY SPLEEEEN NO NOOOO THAT DOESN'T GO THERE NNOOOOO-*"


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I built a Succubus Tetori Monk because of this thread.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Give us the warm, wiggly, jiggly, excruciatingly detailed play-by-play when you use her....IN A GAME I MEAN!


7 people marked this as a favorite.
Mikaze wrote:
(damn thing keeps growing too)

I just bet it does, replied the succubus wrestler, eyebrows waggling knowingly.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I built a shrine to this thread because of this thread.

I think for the first time ever I actually wanted to understand the grapple rules because of it instead of getting halfway down that weird chart and going oh my god this is so hard I'm just going to buy a greatsword instead.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lamontius wrote:

I built a shrine to this thread because of this thread.

I think for the first time ever I actually wanted to understand the grapple rules because of it instead of getting halfway down that weird chart and going oh my god this is so hard I'm just going to buy a greatsword instead.

Heh.

For what it's worth, if I were the GM I'd rule that the Succubus gets to drain levels even as the "victim" of a grapple. An "act of passion" is so vague that anyone with an imagination can envision a use for every body part that isn't held down. The Pinned condition does a fair shake at holding things down (BDSM aside ~_^), so I'd rule the poor Succubus is in an unfavorable position to level drain here, unless the pinner feels extra naughty.

So yeah, in my opinion, Grappled = Drained, Pinned = Not drained, but still sexy.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think this is my favorite thread of all time. She just keeps going and going and going....

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
VikingIrishman wrote:

For what it's worth, if I were the GM I'd rule that the Succubus gets to drain levels even as the "victim" of a grapple. An "act of passion" is so vague that anyone with an imagination can envision a use for every body part that isn't held down. The Pinned condition does a fair shake at holding things down (BDSM aside ~_^), so I'd rule the poor Succubus is in an unfavorable position to level drain here, unless the pinner feels extra naughty.

So yeah, in my opinion, Grappled = Drained, Pinned = Not drained, but still sexy.

I see what you did there.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm not comfortable with being grappled there!

Liberty's Edge

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Geistlinger wrote:
I'm not comfortable with being grappled there!

Show me on the doll where the succubus grappled you...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Guys all I wanted to do was see this hit 100 posts. I feel like a proud papa, if that papa's progeny were a thread that was this good.

But...what if the succubus grappled the doll?

Can the doll take 10, since it really isn't alive?

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Lamontius wrote:

Guys all I wanted to do was see this hit 100 posts. I feel like a proud papa, if that papa's progeny were a thread that was this good.

But...what if the succubus grappled the doll?

Can the doll take 10, since it really isn't alive?

The doll, being an inanimate object, cannot resist the grapple. What happens next is dependent on the size, shape, and composition of the doll.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Surely this deserves to hit 300 posts before the end of the world...

Can someone clarify for me how a bear with no opposable thumbs can effectively grapple... I mean a hug, sure... But hugging a succubus seems like exactly the kind of thing we're trying to avoid. Ok. Maybe not we...


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Seeing as claws are B and S, i'd say if she used her Grab ability, then she grabbed the succubus by sinking her claws into the demoness. which in some circles itself is considered an act of passion...
... although I doubt most people like getting scratched quite that much, she is a succubus, it prolly just got her going

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

The issue here is that Pathfinder discriminates between two characters engaging in a grapple.

Basically, to borrow some terminology from an article about grappling, there is a primary and secondary grappler in every grapple.

If you are the primary grappler, whenever you confirm a grapple, you can take a grapple action, such as moving the secondary grappler, damaging the secondary grappler, pinning the secondary grappler, or tieing them up. In addition, confirming a grapple often allows you to use secondary abilities such as constrict and rake.

Reading the succubus entry, it seems apparent from the rules that the succubus needs to be the primary grappler in this situation. So if someone grapples the succubus, the succubus cannot just start energy draining them, she must instead reverse the grapple first.

However, where I see a problem is that the ability does not clarify what type of action the ability is. The reading that makes the most sense is to say that the energy drain happens automatically when the succubus confirms the grapple, but that's not spelled out in the rule.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah. The question really amounts to:

Does the grappling druid have enough time to pull off a pin in the amount of time it takes for a succubus to think "A bear... different... kinky... whatever..." *drain*...

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Elamdri wrote:

Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

The issue here is that Pathfinder discriminates between two characters engaging in a grapple.

Basically, to borrow some terminology from an article about grappling, there is a primary and secondary grappler in every grapple.

If you are the primary grappler, whenever you confirm a grapple, you can take a grapple action, such as moving the secondary grappler, damaging the secondary grappler, pinning the secondary grappler, or tieing them up. In addition, confirming a grapple often allows you to use secondary abilities such as constrict and rake.

Reading the succubus entry, it seems apparent from the rules that the succubus needs to be the primary grappler in this situation. So if someone grapples the succubus, the succubus cannot just start energy draining them, she must instead reverse the grapple first.

However, where I see a problem is that the ability does not clarify what type of action the ability is. The reading that makes the most sense is to say that the energy drain happens automatically when the succubus confirms the grapple, but that's not spelled out in the rule.

You sir, are taking this thread way more seriously than the majority. From now on we expect to see some serious innuendo in your posts! :)

Quote:
Does the grappling druid have enough time to pull off a pin in the amount of time it takes for a succubus to think "A bear... different... kinky... whatever..." *drain*...

Well that is a good question since the hot female paladin is busy smiting her behind...er...I mean from behind.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Elamdri wrote:

Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

The issue here is that Pathfinder discriminates between two characters engaging in a grapple.

Basically, to borrow some terminology from an article about grappling, there is a primary and secondary grappler in every grapple.

If you are the primary grappler, whenever you confirm a grapple, you can take a grapple action, such as moving the secondary grappler, damaging the secondary grappler, pinning the secondary grappler, or tieing them up. In addition, confirming a grapple often allows you to use secondary abilities such as constrict and rake.

Reading the succubus entry, it seems apparent from the rules that the succubus needs to be the primary grappler in this situation. So if someone grapples the succubus, the succubus cannot just start energy draining them, she must instead reverse the grapple first.

However, where I see a problem is that the ability does not clarify what type of action the ability is. The reading that makes the most sense is to say that the energy drain happens automatically when the succubus confirms the grapple, but that's not spelled out in the rule.

In RAW, a creature either has the 'grappled' condition or it doesn't. Both grappler and grapplee are 'grappled', therefore that Energy Drain condition is met, even when the succubus is pinned!

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:


In RAW, a creature either has the 'grappled' condition or it doesn't. Both grappler and grapplee are 'grappled', therefore that Energy Drain condition is met, even when the succubus is pinned!

So if they are both in the RAW they both get the grappled condition. What if the succubus is wearing a hot dominatrix outfit?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wow, no posts in two days. I guess the succubus finally ran out of steam...or is she finally satisfied? Come to think of it, I'd love to hear what DarkMistress has to say :)

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

OK, no. This thread will not die. After all the effort I expended just to keep READING this far through all my LAUGHTER, I will NOT tolerate this thread dying out. We are PATHFINDERS! We need ANSWERS!

Succubi contortionist. Escape artist checks in the high 40's. Hilarity ensues?

Plant shape. Vines, tendrils, etc, are they part of the main body? could she drain? Would she CARE?

iron bands of binding. Just throwin' that in there for extra giggles.

Ewan's spiked tentacles of...ehhh, we've been warned by at least one moderator, time to back off I guess.

give me comedy and rules clarifications, now. I DEMAND IT! As do any untold number of other readers/posters who are in tears from all the laughter.

The hardest part of reading this thread was keeping my eyes open and staying in my chair. don't you DARE let me down now. Particular props to Lamontius. There aren't enough spoilers in the world to contain the quotes in one post.

malachi silverclaw wrote:
So if they are both in the RAW they both get the grappled condition. What if the succubus is wearing a hot dominatrix outfit?

Well then, we're just going to have to expend the alignment matrix to include a "kinky" axis somewhere, arent we? Matter of fact, that would make it a three-demensional matrix, being on three axes, so that's what, 27 different alignments now? I'm sure we can fit the succubus, the bear druid, the sorcerer, the paladin, and ALL their familiars/mounts/companions in there SOMEWHERE...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jhidurievdrioshka wrote:

Surely this deserves to hit 300 posts before the end of the world...

Can someone clarify for me how a bear with no opposable thumbs can effectively grapple... I mean a hug, sure... But hugging a succubus seems like exactly the kind of thing we're trying to avoid. Ok. Maybe not we...

Surely a bare hug.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

How much the druidess wanted to grapple the succubus?

Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability.

As the druidess/bear wanted to star the passionate hug I think the conditions to energy drain were not fully fulfilled.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Nicos wrote:

How much the druidess wanted to grapple the succubus?

Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability.

As the druidess/bear wanted to star the passionate hug I think the conditions to energy drain were not fully fulfilled.

LOL, as much as I'd like to jump on this "willing succubus grapple defeats the energy drain" bandwagon, just for the pure hilarity of it, I will point out that the "unwilling victim" is not referring to the grapple, but to the energy drain itself. Being willing to grapple does not imply being willing to accept energy drain.

However, it does beg the question that if the flexible bare, bear druid had roared "I'm willing to be drained" as she dove onto the succubus, would that have protected her?

We seriously need a ruling on that!

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.
PatientWolf wrote:
You sir, are taking this thread way more seriously than the majority. From now on we expect to see some serious innuendo in your posts! :)

*reads the previous pages*

Ah...um...yes...well it appear I have in fact done that doesn't it.

Well...

How about this:

"Succubi are very sexually attractive because they have ideal physical proportions and are scantily clad. Grappling with them is also humorous because grappling is akin to what humans due whenever they engage in coitus. Therefore, grappling with a succubus is visually similar to engaging with coitus with the succubus and since succubi are sexually attractive, this is a desirable outcome. For some reason, this is also a humorous outcome"

how'd I do?


6 people marked this as a favorite.

How is it even possible to grapple a succubus? A healthy one is usually coated in truffle oil. {oglaf reference (oglaf is massively NSFW)}

Dark Archive

mousestalker wrote:
How is it even possible to grapple a succubus? A healthy one is usually coated in truffle oil. {oglaf reference (oglaf is massively NSFW)}

(Good Reference)

Does this mean that they need a bonus to CMD vs Grapple? How big a circumstance bonus should that be?

251 to 300 of 1,858 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Succubus in a grapple. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.