Succubus in a grapple.


Rules Questions

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Nixitur wrote:
Halek wrote:
I think we don't summon actual living outsiders. To get that we have to call them.

The exact flavor of what summoning does isn't made all that clear, but I'm reasonably certain that we're not just creating entities that look and work like outsiders out of thin air. That would be a creation spell, not summoning.

The rules state:
Core Rulebook wrote:
Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

Everything about this clearly says that you are bringing individual outsiders into this world which simply have a special clause about being sent back when their hit points are depleted. Especially the line about outsiders needing to reform after getting killed while summoned implies that it is an actual, living, individual outsider.

I know James Jacobs once said something different (that the creature is created by the spell), but that's simply not supported by the rules.

My understanding here is that a summoning spell makes a new body for an existing creature, thus when you kill it, it still has it's original body on it's home plane.

Thus a calling spell is differentiated by the fact that it brings the creature's original and true body to the caster's plane.

Dark Archive

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So, to continue this thread, as I started it, and I'll gosh darn take it where I want it to go.

Spoilers below

I was running Emerald Spire, and there is a bath-house with fully intact tub and two ladies willing to help give a wash n scrub. I had a Cleric that cast Deathward, fearing the worse before entering the bathhouse.

The only thing that made the Cleric even somewhat suspicious was how long one of those ladies could hold her breath underwater.

To his immense surprise, nothing terrible happened to him. (That he remembers) The two ladies gave him a scrub down as it were, becoming quite vexxed over the course of several minutes, until the cleric finally failing the will save mentioned he had Death ward up.

A friendly suggestion to dismiss it for the best of times was mentioned, and the willful cleric went along with it, and enjoyed another minute of bathing bliss before giving up the ghost.

The ladies being the kind sort that they are, put him to bed, and invited the next PC inside.

The moral of the story is, well, no moral - just beware washing wenches! (That's a Renaissance Faire shot there!)


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Sin of Asmodeus wrote:


The moral of the story is, well, no moral - just beware washing wenches!

This being d&d and all that, I bet that advice is given to every newby in adventuring 101.


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And of course, since my campaign is barely balancing on the rails at the moment. One of my players has decided that since there may be a long time before he can rescue his wife, and he may not be able to redeem her, he's gonna hook up with the succubus they captured and bargained with. Just a platonic 'scratching mutual itches'.

The question is, is a Succubus' Energy Drain an at-will, reflexive, or automatic thing? They are both willing, so grapples are not needed.


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CrimsonVixen wrote:


The question is, is a Succubus' Energy Drain an at-will, reflexive, or automatic thing? They are both willing, so grapples are not needed.

In Wrath of the Righteous it was any act of passion, that would trigger it. And it was automatic, that caused problems if Arueshalae was with someone. Our fighter had to visit the cleric quite a bit, before the problem was solved


Though death ward will negate it, and it's been noted that Arueshalae was in a state of flux, probably unable to control things as well as normal. Also, a simple Change Shape should remove that ability.

Lantern Lodge

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Tacticslion wrote:
...Also, a simple Change Shape should remove that ability.

Bard: "It would have been a good night, if it wasn't for the wizard's little... quirk.

Listener: "Wozzat, you say?"

Bard: "He can dispel magic with a sneeze."

Listener: "'zat a pro'lem?"

Bard: "...It was spring."


Fortuitously for everyone, Change Shape, being a Supernatural ability, shouldn't be subject to dispel magic. That is a really weird mythic ability for the wizard, though!

EDIT: coding! My nemesis I! Especially on a phone!

-


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I love this thread so much. <3


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LOL. The thread that will...not...die!


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Pretty ideal circumstance, really...


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Given succubi are immortal, it'd be pretty sad if their thread did die. Now, all the other stuff going on here is at most a momentary inconvenience...and not likely to be that, given our participants and audience....


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Felt I should post in this thread seen as its been going on for so long...


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There have been a few threads over the years that are based on 'how long have you been on the boards'. I've posted in them. This one should probably be a new rite of passage or something!


So... how have you been, at that?!


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Oh hey thread, haven't seen you in a while.


I had cause to link it recently, so... why not post?! XD


Relevant!


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I wonder how CrimsonVixen is doing, I miss my research partner terribly....


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Nixitur wrote:
Halek wrote:
I think we don't summon actual living outsiders. To get that we have to call them.

The exact flavor of what summoning does isn't made all that clear, but I'm reasonably certain that we're not just creating entities that look and work like outsiders out of thin air. That would be a creation spell, not summoning.

The rules state:
Core Rulebook wrote:
Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

Everything about this clearly says that you are bringing individual outsiders into this world which simply have a special clause about being sent back when their hit points are depleted. Especially the line about outsiders needing to reform after getting killed while summoned implies that it is an actual, living, individual outsider.

I know James Jacobs once said something different (that the creature is created by the spell), but that's simply not supported by the rules.

To quote Paizo Managing Developer Adam Daigle, "nothing's canon until it's in a book (or PDF)."

...though, rather vexingly, that means that his assertion itself is non-canon. That may explain why he put a smiley at the end of that sentence.

Dark Archive

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....till it's in a book.

So when will the "Succubai and the Druids who Grapple them" pre-orders start?


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MeriDoc- wrote:

....till it's in a book.

So when will the "Succubai and the Druids who Grapple them" pre-orders start?

Is there a Kickstarter for this? Put me down for the "Tetori Tease" tier.


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I've skulked these boards for years. I took a year of personal... garbage and have just started to re-emerge the past few weeks.

Succubus in a grapple: hello old friend


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Alzrius wrote:
Nixitur wrote:
Halek wrote:
I think we don't summon actual living outsiders. To get that we have to call them.

The exact flavor of what summoning does isn't made all that clear, but I'm reasonably certain that we're not just creating entities that look and work like outsiders out of thin air. That would be a creation spell, not summoning.

The rules state:
Core Rulebook wrote:
Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

Everything about this clearly says that you are bringing individual outsiders into this world which simply have a special clause about being sent back when their hit points are depleted. Especially the line about outsiders needing to reform after getting killed while summoned implies that it is an actual, living, individual outsider.

I know James Jacobs once said something different (that the creature is created by the spell), but that's simply not supported by the rules.

To quote Paizo Managing Developer Adam Daigle, "nothing's canon until it's in a book (or PDF)."

...though, rather vexingly, that means that his assertion itself is non-canon. That may explain why he put a smiley at the end of that sentence.

Succubi of Golarion... Succubi of the Inner Sea... Succubi Codex... Blood of Succubi...

So many options...


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So!

Anyone want to stat out a few iconic succubus grapplers?

My thoughts:

- simple template: barbarian, bard, cleric^^, druid*, fighter, monk*^, paladin*^^^, rogue, sorcerer^^, wizard^^

- a couple of levels of: alchemist or brawler or inquisitor or magus^^, oracle^^, summoner, vigilante, witch, ninja, or mesmerist

- a couple of levels of: arcane trickster, assassin, duelist, shadow dancer, master spy, or enchanting courtesan

* necessitates an alignment change
^ or tetori levels {alt: do a home brew tetori simple template}
^^ probably focus on touch spells
^^^ yes, it's fine if you remake Eludecia! Just remember to cite the original! XD

Needs: equipment (should be specified, within "budget" of CR; preferably put total value, too in "ooc" text for checking)

Needs: backstory (can be grand or simple)

Needs: description of personality and goals

This could be a fun exercise! ... or not! I'unno! Just thought I'd throw that idea out there to the community!

EDIT: I recommended the simple templates for ease of creation; certainly there are options other than that, though, if you'd rather give actual levels. Also option: corruption templates! (Most especially the lich creature corruption...! Instantly stiffened paralyzed as she "passionate action" and/or grapples you... >.>)


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I'm actually a Beast-Wrestler Brawler.

My favorite enemies include bears. And druids. And other succubi.


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MeriDoc- wrote:

....till it's in a book.

So when will the "Succubai and the Druids who Grapple them" pre-orders start?

Well, I have not heard about this one, but my catalog does have "I married a Succubus", and "My Mother, the Succubus". I also have "The Joys of Succubi (Illustrated)", but that last one is hard to keep in stock. I also have a horror novel I bring out each harvest time: "The people I've drained" that is based off the diary of a succubus who was addicted to passion. While not illustrated, it is a graphic novel.

I also expect the research paper Lathiira and CrimsonVixen are working on will be a best seller, especially if illustrated. [Hurry up and publish. If you aren't done, just say you will follow up with a sequel.]

Your friendly merchant...
/cevah


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You know how it is in academia. We think we're good, go for some peer review, they have a few questions, you go back and answer. You write your conclusions. You disagree with your partner on conclusions. You go back over the data. Exhaustively. You go back and forth on the title. Whose name goes first? The little details you have to finesse out. Which charts and graphs and pictures do you want in?

Scientific literature is truly an epic undertaking sometimes. *sigh*


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Nononononono. Order of names is decided on FIRST. The issue is probably that the peer reviewers are dirty people who quite... enjoy... reading your work. Putting more questions is obvious.


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That was just a list of problem, Sissyl, not in any particular order, no worries. But the peer reviewers are just tough. "Did you consider trying this?" "Did you think about that?" I could probably write a paper on the list of things they want to know about. The statistical analyses alone take forever.


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Lathiira wrote:
That was just a list of problem, Sissyl, not in any particular order, no worries. But the peer reviewers are just tough. "Did you consider trying this?" "Did you think about that?" I could probably write a paper on the list of things they want to know about. The statistical analyses alone take forever.

And that paper will be the subject of yet another Peer Review, which leads to yet more papers, ad infinitum. [joke]"Save the trees, ban science."[/joke] :P :D


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Hey, I'm an advocate for electronic publishing, no worries there! But my master's thesis was waaaaaaaaaaayy easier to deal with than this!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Something something something “poking holes in a body of work” something something


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Chemlak wrote:
Something something something “poking holes in a body of work” something something

I think it was more along the lines of:

... poking into bodies at work ...

/cevah

Silver Crusade

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I suggest Sin of Asmodeus be given an award for the post that inspired the most responses.

Grand Lodge

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Whenever I return to the messageboard this thread is the one true lighthouse- the anchor I can hold onto in the wild sea of threads. Thank you Sin of Asmodeus.


Succubus in a Grapple wrote:

I'm actually a Beast-Wrestler Brawler.

My favorite enemies include bears. And druids. And other succubi.

That's totally fair, but you, in particular, aren't exactly who I was referring to! That's why I tried to suggest the idea of several different iconic grappling succubi, not "the" second bus from the grapple! Who, obviously, is yourself! ;D


In any event, I have a few character ideas for some succubi... I claim the barbarian, assassin, and shadow dancers!

(Which means, of course, anyone else can make those kinds of characters, it's just that I have ideas for some myself.)


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In order to let everyone play our little game, Tacticslion, I will take a moment from my busy day at work to list the rules.

The Rulez:

A Succubus is "technically" a Combat Role monster according to the portion of the rules that determines it's role for the purposes of monster advancement. We all know that's a bundle of poppycock, but it's what the rules say. As such, when adding class levels to a succubus you do the following:

Add levels like you would to anything else, take the base stats and add on one HD per class level. Adjust the succubus' stats like BAB and saves according to the chart for the class you have chosen. Every odd HD gives a feat, every 4 HD gives a free attribute point. The succubus gains a favored class bonus as long as it takes levels in non-NPC classes. Distribute the following across the base succubus' attributes (one number per stat) as you see fit: +4, +4, +2, +2, 0, and -2. The newly leveled succubus gains wealth equal to it's final CR.

Determining that CR involves adding 1 CR per Level for a class that fits the succubus' role of "combat". According to the rules, that includes fighters, barbarians, and rangers but not Monks and Paladins. These rules were written before additional classes came out, so decisions will need to be made as to whether each new class is Keyed to combat, skills, spells, or special. Regardless, levels in a non-key class like Sorcerer, Rogue, or Monk only count as half a CR until their class level equals the monsters base HD. In our case, after level 8 these levels would count as 1 full CR.

My suggestion, thus, is a slight difference from the normal iconics in that for any succubus iconic that is submitted it be sent in at level 2, 8, and 12. Level two is much more interesting than level 1 for a monster since we are all using the same template. Level 8 is the last level of "non-key" classes getting free CR, and level 12 sets the Succubus to an even 20HD just like a maxed out PC. We will also need to determine what catagory the newer classes fall under for monster creation, and whether or not a succubus is truly a "combat" creature and not a skill, special, or spell creature. Lastly, retraining is allowed provided the succubus' wealth permits it, so you can trade out older feats or skills if you wish.

If they aren't CE, I except BACKSTORY. Hell, these are iconics I expect backstory on all of them.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hm, anyone else thinking of a succubus vigilante that's an ordinary succubus by day, but a semi-professional wrestler (i.e. grappler) by night?

Or should that be the other way around?


Well I am now...


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Quote:
at level 2, 8, and 12.

Get outta my head~!

(It's a mess in there already, and I do t want you to hurt yourself!)


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Nevah, now, THREAD SUCCUBI ICONICS: GO!


To help: Basic Stats!

EDIT: I'm going to attempt to put a usable basic "template" you should be able to quote/edit at will, below.

I... don't know how that'll work out, but I'mma try it! XD


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...

...

...

...

Demon, Succubus:
Demon, Succubus

Tiny horns, bat-like wings, and a sinuous tail betray the demonic nature of this alluring woman.
Succubus, CR 7 (XP 3,200)
CE Medium outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., detect good; Perception +21

DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 17 (+3 Dex, +7 natural)
hp 84 (8d10+40)
Fort +7, Ref +9, Will +10
DR 10/cold iron or good; Immune electricity, fire, poison; Resist energy (acid, cold) 10; SR 18

OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft., fly 50 ft. (average)
Melee 2 claws +11 (1d6+1)
Special Attacks energy drain, profane gift

    Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th)
  • Constantdetect good, tongues
  • At willcharm monster (DC 22), detect thoughts (DC 20), ethereal jaunt (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only), suggestion (DC 21), greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only), vampiric touch
  • 1/daydominate person (DC 23), summon (level 3, 1 babau 50%)

STATISTICS
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 27
Base Atk +8; CMB +11; CMD 22
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
Skills Bluff +27, Diplomacy +19, Disguise +19, Escape Artist +11, Fly +14, Intimidate +16, Knowledge (local) +15, Perception +21, Sense Motive +13, Stealth +14; Racial Modifiers +8 Bluff, +8 Perception
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Draconic; tongues, telepathy 100 ft.
SQ Change Shape (alter self, Small or Medium humanoid)

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Energy Drain (Su)
A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus’s kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

Profane Gift (Su)
Once per day as a full-round action, a succubus may grant a profane gift to a willing humanoid creature by touching it for 1 full round. The target gains a +2 profane bonus to an ability score of his choice. A single creature may have no more than one profane gift from a succubus at a time. As long as the profane gift persists, the succubus can communicate telepathically with the target across any distance (and may use her suggestion spell-like ability through it). A profane gift is removed by dispel evil or dispel chaos. The succubus can remove it as well as a free action (causing 2d6 Charisma drain to the victim, no save).

ECOLOGY

Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary, pair, or harem (3–12)
Treasure double

Among the demon hordes, a succubus can often rise to incredible heights of power through her manipulations and sensual charms, and many a demonic war has raged due to the subtle machinations of such creatures. A succubus is formed from the souls of particularly lustful and rapacious evil mortals.

Profane Temptations

The succubus’s ability to grant a profane gift to those she encounters is one of her most subtle methods of influencing mortal actions. Yet the gift is only one such effect—some succubi have variant profane gifts that grant additional boons to the target.

  • Gift of Transformation: The succubus’s profane gift also allows the target to use the succubus’s change shape ability. While using this ability, the succubus can also use detect thoughts on the target, and the target’s saving throws against this or the succubus’s suggestion ability take a –4 penalty.

  • Gift of Domination: The target can allow the succubus to use her dominate person spell-like ability through the link to affect creatures as if the target had been the source of the spell-like ability. Whenever the target allows the succubus to do so, he gains a +2 profane bonus to a second ability score of his choice (other than the one already profanely enhanced) for 24 hours.

  • Gift of Recovery: Once per day as an immediate action when the target fails a Will saving throw from a source other than the succubus who granted the profane gift, the character can allow the succubus to attempt a second Will saving throw (using her own Will save) to resist the effect. If the succubus fails the save the effect affects the character normally, but if she makes the save, the character is treated as if he made his initial Will save. The next time the succubus uses suggestion on the PC, he automatically fails the saving throw.

EDIT: put in a spoiler for space.


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Alright, so that cuts off somewhere during Energy Drain, I think.

So, instead, I'm going to post the template in three parts: Top and Defense; Offense and Statistics and Special Abilities; and the rest of it!

So: here we go!


...

...

...

...

Demon, Succubus

Tiny horns, bat-like wings, and a sinuous tail betray the demonic nature of this alluring woman.
Succubus, CR 7 (XP 3,200)
CE Medium outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., detect good; Perception +21

DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 17 (+3 Dex, +7 natural)
hp 84 (8d10+40)
Fort +7, Ref +9, Will +10
DR 10/cold iron or good; Immune electricity, fire, poison; Resist energy (acid, cold) 10; SR 18


...

...

...

...

OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft., fly 50 ft. (average)
Melee 2 claws +11 (1d6+1)
Special Attacks energy drain, profane gift

    Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th)
  • Constantdetect good, tongues
  • At willcharm monster (DC 22), detect thoughts (DC 20), ethereal jaunt (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only), suggestion (DC 21), greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only), vampiric touch
  • 1/daydominate person (DC 23), summon (level 3, 1 babau 50%)

STATISTICS
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 27
Base Atk +8; CMB +11; CMD 22
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
Skills Bluff +27, Diplomacy +19, Disguise +19, Escape Artist +11, Fly +14, Intimidate +16, Knowledge (local) +15, Perception +21, Sense Motive +13, Stealth +14; Racial Modifiers +8 Bluff, +8 Perception
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Draconic; tongues, telepathy 100 ft.
SQ Change Shape (alter self, Small or Medium humanoid)

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Energy Drain (Su)
A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus’s kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

Profane Gift (Su)
Once per day as a full-round action, a succubus may grant a profane gift to a willing humanoid creature by touching it for 1 full round. The target gains a +2 profane bonus to an ability score of his choice. A single creature may have no more than one profane gift from a succubus at a time. As long as the profane gift persists, the succubus can communicate telepathically with the target across any distance (and may use her suggestion spell-like ability through it). A profane gift is removed by dispel evil or dispel chaos. The succubus can remove it as well as a free action (causing 2d6 Charisma drain to the victim, no save).


...

...

...

...

ECOLOGY

Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary, pair, or harem (3–12)
Treasure double

Among the demon hordes, a succubus can often rise to incredible heights of power through her manipulations and sensual charms, and many a demonic war has raged due to the subtle machinations of such creatures. A succubus is formed from the souls of particularly lustful and rapacious evil mortals.

Profane Temptations

The succubus’s ability to grant a profane gift to those she encounters is one of her most subtle methods of influencing mortal actions. Yet the gift is only one such effect—some succubi have variant profane gifts that grant additional boons to the target.

  • Gift of Transformation: The succubus’s profane gift also allows the target to use the succubus’s change shape ability. While using this ability, the succubus can also use detect thoughts on the target, and the target’s saving throws against this or the succubus’s suggestion ability take a –4 penalty.

  • Gift of Domination: The target can allow the succubus to use her dominate person spell-like ability through the link to affect creatures as if the target had been the source of the spell-like ability. Whenever the target allows the succubus to do so, he gains a +2 profane bonus to a second ability score of his choice (other than the one already profanely enhanced) for 24 hours.

  • Gift of Recovery: Once per day as an immediate action when the target fails a Will saving throw from a source other than the succubus who granted the profane gift, the character can allow the succubus to attempt a second Will saving throw (using her own Will save) to resist the effect. If the succubus fails the save the effect affects the character normally, but if she makes the save, the character is treated as if he made his initial Will save. The next time the succubus uses suggestion on the PC, he automatically fails the saving throw.


Alright! That should do it.

The dots are there pretty much exclusively to deal with the "avatar" problem - when you're trying to make a pretty-looking format on the forums, you have to plan around the avatar (if any) of a given poster.

Hence, adding the dots.

When you post the final stat-block, you should probably post a singular, coherent statblock, though you could also post the "three part" version, should you wish to make it easy to reply/copy/paste.

Do remember, that anything posted within spoiler tags,

... like so...:
so, you know, all these words right here...

... doesn't actually show up, when someone hits "reply."

So while it's often considered polite to put a full statblock in a spoiler block (so it's not obnoxious/taking up a huge amount of screen space), it's not going to be able to be replicated by others, easily - at least not here on the forums (though it's easy enough to highlight/copy/paste into a Word document). Choose how to post

Anyway, hope that helps!

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