Succubus in a grapple.


Rules Questions

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However, succubi make you feel so good.

/cevah


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Well, what if An erinyes grapple a Succubus? The whole animate rope thing makes me wonder.


Succubus would still "win" an engagement, RAW (due to level drain), though the rope thing might swing the engagement the other way.

... but what of two succubi. Hm.

(Rules-wise, it'd be "initiative wins" and also "less than a minute".)


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Six pages in, I found this:

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed two posts. Please keep this on topic and about the rules question that was asked.

The sheer number of posts and contents therein ignored in order to choose only two to delete leaves me asking so many questions: What on Golarion was said that stood out in this thread? When did it actually get back on topic? Is Chris still monitoring this thread, and if so, how much must she love it to let it get away with so much silliness and off-topic nonsense for so long after a direct request to stick to the actual rules question?


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Meh. Rules - RAW and RAI - are still being discussed, periodically, in addition to all of the jokes and humor (gloriously immature as much of it is). It's often just kind of intimately intertwined.

Also, that was pretty early on in the thread's history. Threads do tend to wander off-topic... this one has been remarkably on topic, relatively speaking. :)


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It has been on for years now...


This thread has been on topic from post 1. I don't see any off topic here, aside from some crazy lunatic talking about boring stuff like rules or evangelion.

Back on topic, I agree with tgtg that the lack of dexterity on a succubus is mostly disappointing. I don't think 17 is enaugh to qualify for all the feat in the Pathfinder Succubus Companion: Blood Boil


Hm. Maybe we need to let the erinyes and the succubus fight it out, see how that goes...during 3.X, that fight could've been an act of passion all its own.

Dark Archive

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I agree. let us find a succubus and erinyes and find out.


Ah, but any act of passion that the Erynies provoke is completely incidental. If being tangled by a rope, hung in the air, and being insulted it's your thing it's all fine, but that doesn't fly for everyone!
Succubi are equipped and willing to do anything*: with Alter Self we can be whatever you want**...

*Well, maybe that's for the evil ones: I don't do dangerous or icky stuff. I'm a Calistrian, not a Kuthite freak. Gross.

**Again, other Succubi can. I can do that too, but only once a day for 4 minutes: that's enough for some people tough!
And I got better abs than skinny evil Succubi!


I have to say I have read the first 4 pages of this thread and it is hilarious! Favorite thread ever.

Silver Crusade

The White Lion wrote:
I have to say I have read the first 4 pages of this thread and it is hilarious! Favorite thread ever.

I have to say this thread is the only reason I have not hidden this entire forum


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anytime I see this thread come back, then realize it is someone questioning why it is here rather than discussing the rules of succubus grappling

Scarab Sages

Lamontius wrote:
anytime I see this thread come back, then realize it is someone questioning why it is here rather than discussing the rules of succubus grappling

Seriously. There should be a memo or something.

Ooooo. Is there an item that grants Grab? I thought Anaconda's Coils, but I was wrong. Those are Constrict. That way she can use an oil of magic weapon (I forget the specific name) on her natural attack and you'll never see her coming, though that may be a disappointment in the end. Some people enjoy the anticipation of watching a foe charge them.


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Choon wrote:
Ooooo. Is there an item that grants Grab? I thought Anaconda's Coils, but I was wrong. Those are Constrict. That way she can use an oil of magic weapon (I forget the specific name) on her natural attack and you'll never see her coming, though that may be a disappointment in the end. Some people enjoy the anticipation of watching a foe charge them.

Blade Of Binding

Blade of Binding:
Aura faint conjuration; CL 3rd; Weight 8 lbs.; Price 12,350 gp
DESCRIPTION

This +1 greatsword is decorated with a lock motif. On a successful hit with the sword against a creature that is the wielder's size or smaller, the wielder can attempt to start a grapple as a free action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. If the wielder succeeds at the grapple, the sword's blade transforms into a metal chain and wraps around the target, giving the wielder a +5 bonus on further grapple checks against the target. If the target escapes the grapple or the wielder decides to release the target from the grapple, the chain reverts to sword form (with the wielder holding the handle).

The wielder can also let go of the chain's handle while grappling or pinning the target; if he does so, the chain remains in place and the target gains the entangled condition (Escape Artist DC 20 to slip free, break DC 28, hardness 10, 10 hit points, concentration DC 17 to cast spells while entangled). Another creature can grab the chain's handle as a standard action and will it to revert to sword form as a swift action, which releases the bound creature. If the chain is destroyed, it reverts to sword form and the weapon gains the broken condition.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate rope; Cost 6,350 gp


Tentacle Cloak
Cloak, Tentacle:
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th
Slot shoulders; Price 14,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
DESCRIPTION

Subtle, indefinable shapes ripple and flow when this deep blue cloak moves, seemingly devouring any light falling upon it. Once per day at the wearer’s command, two large gray tentacles emerge from the cloak near the shoulders. Each tentacle can make a natural attack that deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage, assuming the wear is Medium (the damage of the tentacles scales by size of the wearer as a tentacle natural attack). The tentacles have 10-foot reach and the grab monster special ability. In addition, the wearer gains a +4 competence bonus on grapple maneuver checks with the tentacles. The tentacles last for 1 minute.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, polymorph self; Cost 7,000 gp.

The cloak is better.

/cevah


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I don't question the why, Lamontius, so much as I do the how. It's this strange wonderful anomaly that has me confused and transfixed and enthralled.


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I also think we need a list of magical items needed for our research. Cevah has made some excellent additions known to us.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The monster universal ability grab has the terrible issue of only being able to grapple something of it's size or smaller, so in case of a druid wildshaped into a large size bear the grab ability wouldn't function unless the succubus would use enlarge person or something before hand.


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Damanta wrote:
The monster universal ability grab has the terrible issue of only being able to grapple something of it's size or smaller, so in case of a druid wildshaped into a large size bear the grab ability wouldn't function unless the succubus would use enlarge person or something before hand.

Grab would work just fine on the succubus, as a Medium creature falls into that "Grabber's size or smaller" compared to the Large bear. It would even work if the succubus could use Enlarge Person to get bigger because the fiend is still only the size of the bear.

Of course, Enlarge Person only works on Humanoids. Therefore, succubi aten't real people, rendering them immune to other spells like Charm/Dominate Person orReduce Person and creating some interesting questions as to their rights or lack of rights.


thegreenteagamer wrote:

Erinyes may have less charisma, but I play charisma as facial beauty. The body is all about the physical stats, and Erinyes got that locked down compared to the Succubus.

20, 23, 21 vs a mere 13, 17, 20.

Succi may have a cuter face, but Erin is bringing the body!

Lets be honest, no one is looking at the face.


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Lathiira wrote:
I also think we need a list of magical items needed for our research. Cevah has made some excellent additions known to us.

Well, I am a merchant.

RogueMortal wrote:
Of course, Enlarge Person only works on Humanoids. Therefore, succubi aten't real people, rendering them immune to other spells like Charm/Dominate Person orReduce Person and creating some interesting questions as to their rights or lack of rights.

If she becomes my improved familiar, I can cast spells on he that ignore her type*.

/cevah

*Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).


Wow, this thread's gone quiet for a few weeks. I mean, I know I've been getting rid of negative levels, but I didn't think everyone else had that problem :)


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I have children. Raising children is very similar to grappling a succubi in some ways, ranging from level drain to being (admittedly, a very different kind of) really fun while doing so. :)

That's my excuse, anyway!


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Tacticslion wrote:

I have children. Raising children is very similar to grappling a succubi in some ways, ranging from level drain to being (admittedly, a very different kind of) really fun while doing so. :)

That's my excuse, anyway!

Oh, I understand. I play with my friends' kids and they generate fatigue and exhaustion just by watching them as a kind of passive gaze attack! My negative levels are from work sucking the life out of me the past half-year and still trying to get the rest of my levels while they're at it. I was merely wondering if everyone's off doing research, or finding options in Unchained that might be useful, like variant multiclassing or something. Makes me wonder what my research partner's up to, for that matter....


It could be...just maybe...the joke is getting stale, perhaps?


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Rogar Stonebow wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:

Erinyes may have less charisma, but I play charisma as facial beauty. The body is all about the physical stats, and Erinyes got that locked down compared to the Succubus.

20, 23, 21 vs a mere 13, 17, 20.

Succi may have a cuter face, but Erin is bringing the body!

Lets be honest, no one is looking at the face.

Am I the only one who disassociates anything related to attraction from stats? I think Charisma is the mostly relevant stat here because it IS the socially determined statistic.


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Delayed Blast Threadlock wrote:
It could be...just maybe...the joke is getting stale, perhaps?

NOPE! :D

Secret Wizard wrote:
Am I the only one who disassociates anything related to attraction from stats? I think Charisma is the mostly relevant stat here because it IS the socially determined statistic.

No you are not.

However, as stats go, charisma is, by definition, more "attractive" via Charisma; though some might look more for other features that they find as more attractive (to their particular tastes), which may influence any rolls made.

Further, one reason that many associate attractiveness with stats is that everything in the game (except your level/experience points, dice used to make rolls, and equipment) is directly or indirectly tied to your stats. So it's a pretty universal tool for a group to ruminate about from a point of relative commonality.


I would say that we should not forget that all 10 is the average Human. As attributes, I won't deny Charisma is very, but I would argue the value of constitution.
18–19 +4 'Able to stay awake for days on end'
20–21 +5 'Very difficult to wear down, almost never feels fatigue
As for skills, Erinyes have acrobatics, Succubi don't. Though both have fly...


Maybe we should redesign the succubus using the rules for monsters in Unchained in order to fix a few of these problems....


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I call myself out, I like my succubus chained thanks. And I'm pretty sure they don't mind it either.


Dekalinder wrote:
I call myself out, I like my succubus chained thanks. And I'm pretty sure they don't mind it either.

Mine didn't, though I used rope, not chains ;)

Scarab Sages

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Tacticslion wrote:

I have children. Raising children is very similar to grappling a succubi in some ways, ranging from level drain to being (admittedly, a very different kind of) really fun while doing so. :)

That's my excuse, anyway!

I'm just going to leave this +1 post of "ya, me too!" here.


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Lathiira wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:
I call myself out, I like my succubus chained thanks. And I'm pretty sure they don't mind it either.
Mine didn't, though I used rope, not chains ;)

Silk of course. Hemp causes rope burns, and is soo gauche.


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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:
I call myself out, I like my succubus chained thanks. And I'm pretty sure they don't mind it either.
Mine didn't, though I used rope, not chains ;)
Silk of course. Hemp causes rope burns, and is soo gauche.

Whatever man, they have DR for a reason, so stop this nonsense of using silky stuff and go fetch the nine tail cat from "the box".


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Dekalinder wrote:


Whatever man, they have DR for a reason, so stop this nonsense of using silky stuff and go fetch the nine tail cat from "the box".

Whatever works for you, my friend. As my research partner is a succubus of grace and class, I went with silk and more exotic materials. Also helped with the Break DC and Escape Artist checks ;)


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Fellow researchers, I have a question to submit!

Suppose that you are grappling with an (half-)succubus, with large amounts of rolling around, changes on who's dominant in the grapple, and sweating bodies. We can all agree that taking a 10 would be impossible, but why that is? Is it because the victim partner is in immediate Level Drain danger, or because he's distracted by the succubus ample CHA modifier?

I would test that myself, but I've been going only against strange stuff lately. Ghosts and Icy skeletons-Skeletons! What am I supposed to fondle there?

Grand Lodge

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Selena Halfblood wrote:

Fellow researchers, I have a question to submit!

Suppose that you are grappling with an (half-)succubus, with large amounts of rolling around, changes on who's dominant in the grapple, and sweating bodies. We can all agree that taking a 10 would be impossible, but why that is? Is it because the victim partner is in immediate Level Drain danger, or because he's distracted by the succubus ample CHA modifier?

I would test that myself, but I've been going only against strange stuff lately. Ghosts and Icy skeletons-Skeletons! What am I supposed to fondle there?

Dem bones, dem bones, them slick, slick bones!

Dark Archive

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So, for the funsy, giggly person in me. I once again sat down with the grope, erm group that started this entire thread.
Once again but with different characters - my trope of do gooders, and miscreant well to doers fought their way through hordes of bad guys until they came across a Succubus with a holy symbol of Calistria and levels in tetori monk with grab style.

Yes dear friends. She had grabbing master, and greater grapple.
She cozily held two dear adventurers next to her, and drained them both at the same time, because much like pringles, you can't have just one.

This of course brought up a rule question. Just how many people can a succubus suck, if a succubus could suck levels?

I of course ruled two, but I come seeking the knowledge that only this forum can give me.


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Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

This of course brought up a rule question. Just how many people can a succubus suck, if a succubus could suck levels?

I of course ruled two, but I come seeking the knowledge that only this forum can give me.

19. No more, though, because sucking 20 levels would be too over the top, obviously.


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Lathiira wrote:
Maybe we should redesign the succubus using the rules for monsters in Unchained in order to fix a few of these problems....

Ravish, grope, fondle, involve in an act of passion, chain up, grapple... But REDESIGN??? That is like a violation of an entirely different order of magnitude.


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Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

This of course brought up a rule question. Just how many people can a succubus suck, if a succubus could suck levels?

I of course ruled two, but I come seeking the knowledge that only this forum can give me.

Does she dole out her kisses as a free action? That seems rather gauche.

If it's like a Suggestion spell, that's a standard action. Maybe if she had a quickie, I mean, quickened kiss and a regular standard action kiss, that could be two per round, but one or the other of her companions, er, victims, I mean, will start getting jealous for only getting quickie, um, quickened kisses.

Is it getting warm in here?


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Again, we find a need to define an act of passion. I would consider almost every part of a succubus' body ripe for such, not merely her lips, with her being an incarnation of mortal desire and all. Thus, it becomes more an issue of logistics than action economy. Since she is a Medium creature, it is obvious that she could be adjacent to eight Medium creatures in a two-dimensional situation, but if you added in a third dimension, that number rises dramatically to twenty-six. Since we're grappling, we can add in the grappling creature in the same square, for nine or twenty-seven, respectively. I am uncertain if more than two creatures can grapple in one square. If we add in a bigger succubus or smaller other creatures, again, the number rises sharply. Conversely, only four ogres or similar Large creatures could be adjacent to her on a flat map. Thus, to optimize this situation, it is obvious that the succubus needs to be flying (preferably levitating), and enlarged as far as possble, with her assai... Vict... Ummm, the other creatures preferably quite small.

Also, move action kisses need to be a thing.


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Sissyl wrote:

Thus, to optimize this situation, it is obvious that the succubus needs to be flying (preferably levitating), and enlarged as far as possble, with her assai... Vict... Ummm, the other creatures preferably quite small.

Also, move action kisses need to be a thing.

I don't think either the succubus or her... neighbors, will consider the situation optimal if said passions, um I mean, persons are quite small.


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Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

So, for the funsy, giggly person in me. I once again sat down with the grope, erm group that started this entire thread.

Once again but with different characters - my trope of do gooders, and miscreant well to doers fought their way through hordes of bad guys until they came across a Succubus with a holy symbol of Calistria and levels in tetori monk with grab style.

Yes dear friends. She had grabbing master, and greater grapple.
She cozily held two dear adventurers next to her, and drained them both at the same time, because much like pringles, you can't have just one.

This of course brought up a rule question. Just how many people can a succubus suck, if a succubus could suck levels?

I of course ruled two, but I come seeking the knowledge that only this forum can give me.

Quote:

I have only come here seeking knowledge

that they would not teach me of in college

Somehow it seems quite appropriate to the subject at hand.


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Sissyl wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
Maybe we should redesign the succubus using the rules for monsters in Unchained in order to fix a few of these problems....
Ravish, grope, fondle, involve in an act of passion, chain up, grapple... But REDESIGN??? That is like a violation of an entirely different order of magnitude.

Oh, but maybe in the redesign, we can actually define 'act of passion'? Or figure out what VMC is best for the succubus to pursue? I mean, that's a whole question right there.


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Lathiira wrote:
Oh, but maybe in the redesign, we can actually define 'act of passion'? Or figure out what VMC is best for the succubus to pursue? I mean, that's a whole question right there.

my complete reaction as I read this

Dark Archive

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Well, to a point - sustaining a grapple as a move action would allow it to be two kisses a round for two people sustained in a ahem, grapple?

The Exchange

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Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

So, for the funsy, giggly person in me. I once again sat down with the grope, erm group that started this entire thread.

Once again but with different characters - my trope of do gooders, and miscreant well to doers fought their way through hordes of bad guys until they came across a Succubus with a holy symbol of Calistria and levels in tetori monk with grab style.

Yes dear friends. She had grabbing master, and greater grapple.
She cozily held two dear adventurers next to her, and drained them both at the same time, because much like pringles, you can't have just one.

This of course brought up a rule question. Just how many people can a succubus suck, if a succubus could suck levels?

I of course ruled two, but I come seeking the knowledge that only this forum can give me.

Though typically not encouraged, I do think that for this specific scenario, a Haste may be in order, and beneficial to the NLPR factor (Negative Level Per Round).


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Sissyl wrote:

Again, we find a need to define an act of passion. I would consider almost every part of a succubus' body ripe for such, not merely her lips, with her being an incarnation of mortal desire and all. Thus, it becomes more an issue of logistics than action economy. Since she is a Medium creature, it is obvious that she could be adjacent to eight Medium creatures in a two-dimensional situation, but if you added in a third dimension, that number rises dramatically to twenty-six. Since we're grappling, we can add in the grappling creature in the same square, for nine or twenty-seven, respectively. I am uncertain if more than two creatures can grapple in one square. If we add in a bigger succubus or smaller other creatures, again, the number rises sharply. Conversely, only four ogres or similar Large creatures could be adjacent to her on a flat map. Thus, to optimize this situation, it is obvious that the succubus needs to be flying (preferably levitating), and enlarged as far as possble, with her assai... Vict... Ummm, the other creatures preferably quite small.

Also, move action kisses need to be a thing.

If move action kisses become a thing, then a feat to reduce them to immediate actions needs to become a thing.

Impulsive Kiss
You enjoy giving affection so much, you tend to kiss without warning.
Benefit: Any attempt made to kiss another creature can be done as an immediate action, and if you are locked in a grapple or pinned, then the kiss can be made as a free action, as many times as the GM permits.


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But aren't the best kisses extended actions?

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