Succubus in a grapple.


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I didn't say that I'd settle down, just that it would give a +2 Circumstance bonus to the bluff check. And you seem to forget, I'm chaotic evil, what makes you think I'd listen to that part if it didn't suit me? And why bother waiting for the wedding night? The whole 'kiss the bride' part? I'll suck her soul out right there on the altar.


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Whoa, whoa! Just makin fun! ;) I couldn't resist the quip.

Besides:

CrimsonVixen wrote:

Ring of Solitary Embrace

Aura moderate enchantment; CL 5th
Slot finger; Price 5,000 gp; Weight - lbs.
DESCRIPTION
This elegantly crafted ring is comprised of a flawless diamond set in a gold solitaire setting. When offered to a Succubus and willingly accepted and worn by the Succubus, it renders the gifter immune to the energy-drain ability of that succubus. Additionally, any combat actions involving creatures or players other than the gifter of the ring never count as passionate activities.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Wondrous Item, unnatural lust, charm monster; Cost 2,500 gp

A wonderful wedding ring if I do say so myself.


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CrimsonVixen wrote:
Cevah wrote:
CrimsonVixen wrote:
Cevah wrote:

What's the DC to convince her to wear it? Or the DC to bluff her it makes her look prettier so she will wear it without question?

/cevah

To wear it? Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Bluff against the succubi's Sense Motive. And the bluff check will be answered with a roll against your AC for suggesting that she's not already the prettiest being you've ever seen.

I never said you weren't the loveliest sight around. I suggested that the ring could make you look even better. Is there a maximum to "prettiness"? I don't think so.

/cevah

Okay, you do have a point, however taking an arrow to the knee might help your bluff check to convince me.

robert best 549 wrote:

A thought came to mind. What kind of magic items would succubi create if so inclined, and what would the comedy of them making intelligent items look like?

What kind of magic items? Weapons, armor, wondrous? I'm always up for a creative mood.

I haven't the faintest idea, but I bet they are going to be awesome in some amusing way.


CrimsonVixen wrote:
The whole 'kiss the bride' part? I'll suck her soul out right there on the altar.

Ah, what a way to go...I'll volunteer for that!


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robert best 549 wrote:
CrimsonVixen wrote:


What kind of magic items? Weapons, armor, wondrous? I'm always up for a creative mood.

I haven't the faintest idea, but I bet they are going to be awesome in some amusing way.

So far have come up with...

Veil of Seduction
Rod of Domination
Sword of Revealing Visage
Ring of Repulsion


Years ago, this situation came up in a game. Succubus sorceress vs. reaping mauler. Well it was a strange contest, because the succubus had their special kiss, but couldn't win a grapple check.

"No kissing" was said, as the mauler's grip tightened and the succubus was pinned.

So they only got to kiss the hard stonework.

This went on until their neck snapped.

...

Maulers, a whole lot of fun if your allies can keep enemies off your back.


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DM Under The Bridge wrote:

Years ago, this situation came up in a game. Succubus sorceress vs. reaping mauler. Well it was a strange contest, because the succubus had their special kiss, but couldn't win a grapple check.

"No kissing" was said, as the mauler's grip tightened and the succubus was pinned.

So they only got to kiss the hard stonework.

This went on until their neck snapped.

...

Maulers, a whole lot of fun if your allies can keep enemies off your back.

Methinks you miss the point of this thread. If nothing else, we want her alive and kicking :)


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Lathiira wrote:
Methinks you miss the point of this thread. If nothing else, we want her alive and kissing :)

FTFY.


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Sissyl wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
Methinks you miss the point of this thread. If nothing else, we want her alive and kissing :)
FTFY.

Lathiira had it right the first time. It's no fun if the rope-bunny just lays there.


I thought a fellow chaotic evil would understand! :D

Of course you don't have to kill them riiight then...

There was also the old cord garrote rules that did subdual, and the locking garrotes were pretty funny.

We spared a failed assassin later, for a time, but the buffed up sorceress succubus just couldn't be allowed to live.


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DM Under The Bridge wrote:

I thought a fellow chaotic evil would understand! :D

Of course you don't have to kill them riiight then...

There was also the old cord garrote rules that did subdual, and the locking garrotes were pretty funny.

We spared a failed assassin later, for a time, but the buffed up sorceress succubus just couldn't be allowed to live.

Look again, I'm not chaotic evil. Though spending time with CrimsonVixen may change that, who knows? LOL


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CrimsonVixen wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
Lathiira wrote:
Methinks you miss the point of this thread. If nothing else, we want her alive and kissing :)
FTFY.
Lathiira had it right the first time. It's no fun if the rope-bunny just lays there.

Now I have this image of you with a bunny tail and ears...so adorable!


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Lathiira wrote:
DM Under The Bridge wrote:

I thought a fellow chaotic evil would understand! :D

Of course you don't have to kill them riiight then...

There was also the old cord garrote rules that did subdual, and the locking garrotes were pretty funny.

We spared a failed assassin later, for a time, but the buffed up sorceress succubus just couldn't be allowed to live.

Look again, I'm not chaotic evil. Though spending time with CrimsonVixen may change that, who knows? LOL

Well... Whoever is strangling me is going to be losing a level a round. Coming up behind me to choke me out? Most certainly a passionate act, and you have fewer levels than I have points in constitution.

Oh Lathi? I'd like to point out, some of those experiments were close to causing an alignment shift.


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CrimsonVixen wrote:


Well... Whoever is strangling me is going to be losing a level a round. Coming up behind me to choke me out? Most certainly a passionate act, and you have fewer levels than I have points in constitution.

Oh Lathi? I'd like to point out, some of those experiments were close to causing an alignment shift.

Whoever is doing all that strangling and choking is also attempting to harm a perfectly fine, lovely woman who has volunteered to help with our research. As such, they probably should experience some alignment issues.

And Crimson? If my alignment shifts because of that last round we did...I will be blaming you even as I seek an atonement, knowing it's still all my fault. It will also definitely be worth it, and worth trying again, so I may need to keep a suitable cleric handy on sending-dial. I should see what a priestess of Shelyn has to say.

Please though, call me Thiira-all my friends do!


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WHAT? You went a round already? DETAILS!! DETAILS!!

/cevah

PS: I have to have a talk with that Diviner. I didn't get to sell many tickets, and those that got them [just the two of you] weren't alerted either. Sigh....


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Cevah wrote:

WHAT? You went a round already? DETAILS!! DETAILS!!

/cevah

PS: I have to have a talk with that Diviner. I didn't get to sell many tickets, and those that got them [just the two of you] weren't alerted either. Sigh....

Diviner? What we need is a Peeping Scryer.


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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Cevah wrote:

WHAT? You went a round already? DETAILS!! DETAILS!!

/cevah

PS: I have to have a talk with that Diviner. I didn't get to sell many tickets, and those that got them [just the two of you] weren't alerted either. Sigh....

Diviner? What we need is a Peeping Scryer.

Diviner to know when she the event is going down.

The Peeping Scryer was already on tap. See this post.

/cevah


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I apologize, this round was just a practice one, to make sure all participants are compatible and comfortable with the experimental protocol. The final results will however be submitted to peer review, but not before, we don't want anyone else getting a jump on our research topic.


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Practice makes perfect.

/cevah


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Cevah wrote:

Practice makes perfect.

/cevah

I now have a clean bill of health, thanks to a cleric I know who can cast mythic deathwatch and greater restoration. So I can get back to work whenever CrimsonVixen is ready. Preliminary work seems...promising.

Liberty's Edge

am I the only one who doesn't understand the joke behind the thread?
Im sixteen if you are wondering, I don't exactly get this thread.


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snickersimba wrote:

am I the only one who doesn't understand the joke behind the thread?

Im sixteen if you are wondering, I don't exactly get this thread.

Well, as you are 16 I am unsure you need to know, but that is ok.


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An Half-Succubus Tetori monk in half-charred clothes rushes into the thread, holding a handful of papers.
"We have actual documented field research!"
She flips trough the pages of the report.
"As a full recount of the numerous grapplings would surely bore the ladies and gentlemen present here, I'll give you the conclusions that have been extracted from the study. A-HEM!"

1) Fire elementals are hot, but not hot enough for a Succubus. They can be grappled safely.

2) Unfortunately, both Elementals, Undead and Sarenite priest controlled by otherworldly hive minds have proven immune to distracting tactics: namely, the combination of Monk's inability to wear armors, a barely functional wardrobe, and the force of gravity.
Different impractical clothing and movements could give the desired results, but it's also possible that the previous groups are simply made out of anti-fun, boring people. More data must be collected.

3) Most importantly, the researcher/Succubus(Myself) has been unable to lure the subjects into an act of passion: the first group didn't have a discernible anatomy to grapple, and the second I won't even comment as it's something only a creepy Urgathoan would be interested into. While an act of passion may have been possible for the third group, the researcher had moral quandaries about hurting a body that was being controlled against it's owner will.
While examining more closely case 1 and 3 may be useful to the study on Succubi's grappling, it's unadvised: the latter could spark a number of alignment threads, while the former is probably more problems than it's worth, based on the extensive study required.

4) During the whole study session, the Succubus managed to stay dominant in the grapple for the whole time: most of the subjects tried to escape, but couldn't. It may be advanced the hypothesis that they were subconsciously enjoying it.
Particular attention must be given to one of the subjects, a Magma Elemental: maybe due to its size, or the unidentified hot stuff it was made of, he was the only one to came off the Succubus's grappling. Said sticky, hot stuff was mostly sprayed over the floor, ruining the Succubus clothes, but otherwise dripped slowly but harmlessly off her skin.

"Report completed! I will continue my studies, but an input from fellow researchers (both humanoid and extraplanar) would be appreciated!
For Science!"


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
snickersimba wrote:

am I the only one who doesn't understand the joke behind the thread?

Im sixteen if you are wondering, I don't exactly get this thread.

Don't worry about it, ratty. One day it will all make sense. You'll just, uh, come to a realisation.

(On a more serious note, the joke is basically to see how far we can push the boundaries of decency without actually saying anything that's rude, so we're pulling out all the stops on innuendo, double-entendres, and twisting the meaning. As a man in my late thirties, this thread is downright hilarious.)

Silver Crusade

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I think we're down to single entendres.

I'm okay with that.


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Selena Halfblood wrote:
Selena's Report

As GM, I must somehow work these into the plot.


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My fellow researchers, scientists, volunteers, and test subjects. I have a matter I feel must be discussed.

Just recently, in the advice forum, someone requested assistance with building. . . A Mighty Battle Cock! For future reference, I feel it necessary to ask. . .

Is the standard result of Grappling a Succubus to be expected when it is a Mighty Battle Cock doing the Grappling?


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Wouldn't it be the succubus who grapples the MIGHTY BATTLE COCK?


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Unless the MIGHTY BATTLE COCK manages to come up from behind. We might be dealing with a Carnivalist Rogues Battle Cock after all.


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Unfortunately, there is no facing in PF.

Now if the MIGHTY BATTLE COCK flanks and sneak attacks, he could be hard hitting.

/cevah


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Drat. That little detail regarding there being no facing in PF gets me everytime.

I'm sure the Carnivalist Rogue wouldn't mind assisting his MIGHTY BATTLE COCK in setting up a flank to sneak attack with.

Why, if the Carnivalist Rogue prepares a ready action, they could even go Two on One.


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I'm sure the succubus won't mind draining both the carnivalist AND the MBC at the same time in one act of passion.


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If a succubus uses its change shape ability to take on the form of a catfolk in heat, how does it respond to said rogue and his... "pet"?

EDIT: or if she mimics a creature with scent, does she get a will save?

And what of eidolons and succubi in general?

SCIENCE MUST BE DONE.


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Succubus as Catfolk vs. MBC? This will result in a bite attack, followed by swallowing the MBC whole.

Ever see the cat that got the canary?

Of course, the MCB thinks othewise.

/cevah


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Legowaffles wrote:

Just recently, in the advice forum, someone requested assistance with building. . . A Mighty Battle Cock! For future reference, I feel it necessary to ask. . .

Is the standard result of Grappling a Succubus to be expected when it is a Mighty Battle Cock doing the Grappling?

What if the succubus has levels in cavalier, and the MBC is her mount? Calculate her Ride checks?


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Ahem. It is Valentine's Day. Have a safe one while you do all the science today!


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Tacticslion wrote:

If a succubus uses its change shape ability to take on the form of a catfolk in heat, how does it respond to said rogue and his... "pet"?

EDIT: or if she mimics a creature with scent, does she get a will save?

While I don't know any Catfolk, one of my assistants is a Kitsune Rogue: if she ever starts to act unusually touchy, I will check if an use of Alter Self will impact our willingness to grapple and research science.

Furthermore, it must be reminded that a scientist job is to continually try to disprove his own theories, as to demonstrate that they are actually true: because of this, we will also thoroughly investigate if Rogues ,in fact, do it from behind.


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Finding--and reading--"Succubus in a Grapple" on Valentine's Day. Best VD ever.

Actual practical question, though: concerning 'mortal creatures,' what about mortal creatures that aren't capable of feeling passion (I'm going off of what Raven_Black defines as 'passion') towards the succubus?

For example: the Satrap of Qadira accidentally looses a succubus in Katheer, and has the palace eunuchs find her and whoop the tar out of her with saps and clubs to be brought back for a spanking, figuring their condition precludes any feelings of 'passion' for the succubus. Is the succubus up the creek regarding her ED?

Another example: Seducing a creature with a biological impetus to mate for life... and who is already partnered. Suppose tengu mate for life like ravens. How much harder more difficult would it be for a succubus to arise passion in a married tengu?


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Takeme Onadate wrote:

For example: the Satrap of Qadira accidentally looses a succubus in Katheer, and has the palace eunuchs find her and whoop the tar out of her with saps and clubs to be brought back for a spanking, figuring their condition precludes any feelings of 'passion' for the succubus. Is the succubus up the creek regarding her ED?

Any succubus worth her salt will be inventive enough to be stoped by that.


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She just needs to take on the appearance of the mate. It works for Hexenbiests, I don't see why it wouldn't work for a Succubus.


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Happy Valentine's day, Nale and Sabine!


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Takeme Onadate wrote:
Best VD ever.

I never expected to see a phrase like that in the Succubus thread. Infectious fun, it seems.


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Nicos wrote:
Takeme Onadate wrote:

For example: the Satrap of Qadira accidentally looses a succubus in Katheer, and has the palace eunuchs find her and whoop the tar out of her with saps and clubs to be brought back for a spanking, figuring their condition precludes any feelings of 'passion' for the succubus. Is the succubus up the creek regarding her ED?

Any succubus worth her salt will be inventive enough to be stoped by that.

Think you meant "not be stopped".

As to the Satrap, he was stupid. Just because the eunuch lacks certain equipment, that will not prevent acts of passion. The practice of having harem guards be eunuchs was about who would get to enjoy the harem, not about removing desire from the guards.

/cevah


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Cevah wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Takeme Onadate wrote:

For example: the Satrap of Qadira accidentally looses a succubus in Katheer, and has the palace eunuchs find her and whoop the tar out of her with saps and clubs to be brought back for a spanking, figuring their condition precludes any feelings of 'passion' for the succubus. Is the succubus up the creek regarding her ED?

Any succubus worth her salt will be inventive enough to be stoped by that.

Think you meant "not be stopped".

As to the Satrap, he was stupid. Just because the eunuch lacks certain equipment, that will not prevent acts of passion. The practice of having harem guards be eunuchs was about who would get to enjoy the harem, not about removing desire from the guards.

/cevah

I think I should mention that people lacking their testosterone factories lose any and all desires of sexual nature, and even impulses of bloodlust. Even criminals (be they sexual predators or murderers) that are castrated become ''regular'' citizens, provided the source of their crimes were impulse-based rather than simply being mentally deranged.

Now, the myth from which the fantasy world succubus was born is based on impersonating beautiful females and tempting mortals into trading their eternal souls for a night of luxury. Classical Lawful Good religious myth, that.

If the very first concept of the succubus was adequately stat-blocked, the energy drain upon intimate physical contact would only work on characters subject to Enchantment (Charm) effects, or if the character was willingly giving in to his base desires (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

In that sense, I would be enclined to believe that unless the eunuch desires companionship (in a friendly sense), there's very little to no chance of being drawn to our succubus.

Hence, the eunuch template is born, removing the ability to receive morale bonuses, but becoming immune to mind affecting charm and emotion effects. And 20% immune to crits.


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Then the next question, based on Krimson's thoughts, is this: does 'act of passion' have to be considered from the view of the succubus or from the viewpoint of her partner, in order to trigger energy drain?


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Lathiira wrote:
Then the next question, based on Krimson's thoughts, is this: does 'act of passion' have to be considered from the view of the succubus or from the viewpoint of her partner, in order to trigger energy drain?

Upon deeper probing of the rules, and as much as my chaste self hates to say it, the Golarion succubus doesn't need approval.

Quote:

Energy Drain (Su)

A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. [...]

The ability CAN work even with an unwilling victim. We're back to square one; the grapple debate.

The rules on that subject are quite clear, in fact... The grapple initiator has a variety of options while maintaining the grapple; such as pinning, damaging (unarmed strikes, spikes, natural weapons and light weapons), and tie up. The "victim" of the grapple does not get the full options list, BUT it does have the option to make any attack not requiring two hands. If she could bite a man in the neck, she can 100% steal a kiss.

While pinned, however, the only available drain is with a willing partner making a full attack with a club or other blunt weapon.


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Krimson wrote:
Cevah wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Takeme Onadate wrote:

For example: the Satrap of Qadira accidentally looses a succubus in Katheer, and has the palace eunuchs find her and whoop the tar out of her with saps and clubs to be brought back for a spanking, figuring their condition precludes any feelings of 'passion' for the succubus. Is the succubus up the creek regarding her ED?

Any succubus worth her salt will be inventive enough to be stoped by that.

Think you meant "not be stopped".

As to the Satrap, he was stupid. Just because the eunuch lacks certain equipment, that will not prevent acts of passion. The practice of having harem guards be eunuchs was about who would get to enjoy the harem, not about removing desire from the guards.

/cevah

I think I should mention that people lacking their testosterone factories lose any and all desires of sexual nature, and even impulses of bloodlust. Even criminals (be they sexual predators or murderers) that are castrated become ''regular'' citizens, provided the source of their crimes were impulse-based rather than simply being mentally deranged.

Now, the myth from which the fantasy world succubus was born is based on impersonating beautiful females and tempting mortals into trading their eternal souls for a night of luxury. Classical Lawful Good religious myth, that.

If the very first concept of the succubus was adequately stat-blocked, the energy drain upon intimate physical contact would only work on characters subject to Enchantment (Charm) effects, or if the character was willingly giving in to his base desires (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

In that sense, I would be enclined to believe that unless the eunuch desires companionship (in a friendly sense), there's very little to no chance of being drawn to our succubus.

Hence, the eunuch template is born, removing the ability to receive morale bonuses, but becoming immune to mind affecting charm and emotion effects. And 20% immune to crits.

Who said passion is only sexual or blood-lust? People argue passionately on these boards about rogues. People get passionate about food, sports, and other things. Hand feeding an eunuch a morsel of fine food could be sufficient. Or even delivering a good cup of coffee.

/cevah


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Cevah wrote:
Who said passion is only sexual or blood-lust? People argue passionately on these boards about rogues. People get passionate about food, sports, and other things. Hand feeding an eunuch a morsel of fine food could be sufficient. Or even delivering a good cup of coffee.

Because let's suppose a paladin was to passionately do his/her divine smiting business, and proceed to discharge the full content of a tanglefoot bag at said succubus, the thrower wouldn't be drained, as per RAW. And I assume unloading a sack of sticky substance all over someone else is an act of passion.

In fact, being engaged in melee without actually grappling doesn't work either. It's only fair to assume physical contact is required, which is why "acts of passion such as a kiss", while probably applicable to any mouth related grappling, cannot be expanded to non-touch passions, unless we add in a house-ruled template.

Let's say we open up an extra-planar brothel called Moores. "Well made, well priced, well dressed". There's this succubus poledancing that would only need to have foes fascinated to be able to energy drain them. A few levels of bard and she could easily drain audiences.

Shadow Lodge

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I'm going to have to kick start this as a real world research project.

Liberty's Edge

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