Enemy tactic in Shattered Star


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

During the events of book 2, Curse of the Lady's light, the

Enemy:
Standard Grey Maidens

have a tactic of "using bull rush to force PCs into squares
occupied by other enemies or furniture in order to make
them fall down".

Is this a valid use of bull rush, as I can't find rules for it anywhere?


It would not seem to be, based upon my reading of the bull rush rules... do they have any unusual feats or anything that might explain it?


As a thought you could try asking in the GM reference thread for the module in the appropriate adventure path forum.


cwslyclgh wrote:
It would not seem to be, based upon my reading of the bull rush rules... do they have any unusual feats or anything that might explain it?

no feat other than Improved bull rush.


cwslyclgh wrote:
As a thought you could try asking in the GM reference thread for the module in the appropriate adventure path forum.

This seems like an appropriate place - the question is really can bull rush be used to push something into an object and cause a trip?

From http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#bull-rush

Quote:
You cannot bull rush a creature into a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle.

So the answer is no.

Bull rush *can* be used to force a creature into another occupied square.

Quote:
If there is another creature in the way of your bull rush, you must immediately make a combat maneuver check to bull rush that creature. You take a –4 penalty on this check for each creature being pushed beyond the first. If you are successful, you can continue to push the creatures a distance equal to the lesser result. For example, if a fighter bull rushes a goblin for a total of 15 feet, but there is another goblin 5 feet behind the first, he must make another combat maneuver check against the second goblin after having pushed the first 5 feet. If his check reveals that he can push the second goblin a total of 20 feet, he can continue to push both goblins another 10 feet (since the first goblin will have moved a total of 15 feet).

So you can force creatures into the same square - however this movement doesn't cause AoO's unless they have the greater bull rush feat.


Ckorik wrote:
cwslyclgh wrote:
As a thought you could try asking in the GM reference thread for the module in the appropriate adventure path forum.

This seems like an appropriate place - the question is really can bull rush be used to push something into an object and cause a trip?

By asking in the appropriate GM reference thread, the answer will be helpful to anybody else who may be trying to run the module as well, plus stuff in those threads is commonly answered by the author or JJ, so you often get some insight into what the person writing and or editing the module was thinking when it slipped though.


James Jacobs says its valid.

...But I think he misread the question.


Has anyone else looked into this?


The Shield Slam feat specifically adds that if the square is a wall or occupied, then they do fall down, it requires Imp Bull Rush. I have it for my PFS legal character even.

Other than that, it doesn't work.

In 3.5, I dont seem to recall that line, I think that is how it worked in 3.5 with just the basic bull rush feat. But then again, they only had 1 level of maneuver feat then.


Ed Girallon Poe wrote:

During the events of book 2, Curse of the Lady's light, the

** spoiler omitted **

have a tactic of "using bull rush to force PCs into squares
occupied by other enemies or furniture in order to make
them fall down".

Is this a valid use of bull rush, as I can't find rules for it anywhere?

Some monsters in scenario have "special powers" which only belong to themselves... and are not into the rules...

You could find another examples in other books with monsters that "cheat" with rules.
I prefer to call them "monster's special powers": no need to explain, it's just for the challenge!

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