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In my neck of the woods, even before this boon or KS was announced. PFO was already viewed with some skepticism. At times, even open derision. Most of my players (the ones I’ve talked to about this), including myself are veteran’s of multiple MMO’s and we’ve seen dozens, if not 100’s of prophetic style self promotion. This one falls into the “We’re not WoW, but we’ll still be cool” section of the prophecies. To be honest, even watching the demos, and so forth. I’ve yet to see anything that’s truly impressed me. Though, I’ll be one of the hardest sales to get to buy into an MMO.
A boon for $5 strikes me as gimmicky, unoriginal, and not very classy. Does it ruin my overall view of Paizo? No. Do I think this was a poor decision? Yes. Though, as I stated above, I think the idea of jumping on the MMO train was probably a bad idea. Especially since the majority of the ideas for it are seeds from EVE which I thought was a cool (Spaceships YAY!) and horrible (That jerk just blew me up just for giggles!) idea at the same time.
To be honest, I think the best avenue for paizo to have followed for a video game would have been something like that PA cartoon about how D&D could be used with a WII U system. That still sounds like a very cool idea. (I’m at work and PA is too cool to look at here if someone wants to find the comic link for me).
/nods his head in approval
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You're paying $5 to support the kickstarter and the boon is a "thank you".
Unfortunately I can see some PFS players who are completely uninterested in the MMO kick in just to get the boon, which is sort of disingenuous to the Kickstarter IMO.
I just hope that Goblinworks aren't going to try to make out that the number of backers has any correlation to the number of people who want to play the MMO; if I was one of the normal investors and was told this I may make incorrect decisions as to whether my investment might make a return.
My other issue is that all these "subgoals" or whatever they are called are likely taking money out of the pot that is being raised for the MMO. Now these boons aren't likely taking much out, but other stuff is.
Stretch goals are fine as the initial goal has already been reached, but these are not stretch goals, more like "incentives" to try to even make that initial goal.
If I had backed the Kickstarter at the beginning thinking "well if they make the $1m goal, they should get a good 80% chunk <I don't know what % KS take etc> of that to fund the MMO" I would be annoyed if later I saw more stuff being added as incentives that eventually mean the MMO may only get a 65% chunk of that million. Because the less of that goal the MMO actually gets, the less likely the MMO is to see the light of day in the shorter time scales (or see light of day full stop).
Thankfully I am not into MMOs and so was never interested in backing this KS. My interest is purely from a view of how KS is being used by games companies and the direction Paizo is taking.
Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City
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@Daniel: Ask, and you shall receive!
And I think that would be pretty darn cool, although there'd have to be some sort of single player version too. Maybe... not sure on how to exactly design said game :P
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@Daniel: Ask, and you shall receive!
And I think that would be pretty darn cool, although there'd have to be some sort of single player version too. Maybe... not sure on how to exactly design said game :P
Single player has 2 modes: GM/Design mode and the GM can have a generic NPC group of adventurer's traverse his dungeon.
Player Mode: Go through an already existing with 3 NPC's and a NPC GM. Kind of like Left for Dead's "Director" mechanic.
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Unfortunately I can see some PFS players who are completely uninterested in the MMO kick in just to get the boon, which is sort of disingenuous to the Kickstarter IMO.
Already happening. Within minutes of the posts, I got messages in my email asking me if I knew what said people just bought. I don't for the record. These are also people I know don't play video games, let alone MMO's.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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You're paying $5 to support the kickstarter and the boon is a "thank you".Unfortunately I can see some PFS players who are completely uninterested in the MMO kick in just to get the boon, which is sort of disingenuous to the Kickstarter IMO.
I just hope that Goblinworks aren't going to try to make out that the number of backers has any correlation to the number of people who want to play the MMO; if I was one of the normal investors and was told this I may make incorrect decisions as to whether my investment might make a return.
My other issue is that all these "subgoals" or whatever they are called are likely taking money out of the pot that is being raised for the MMO. Now these boons aren't likely taking much out, but other stuff is.
Stretch goals are fine as the initial goal has already been reached, but these are not stretch goals, more like "incentives" to try to even make that initial goal.
Exactly. Their initial kickstarter was very successful, and was likely a good gauge of initial subscribers. That, plus a business plan, with that initial capital as a down payment, makes for an excellent position to go to a bank or the SBA and get a loan.
And they could have easily topped $1,000,000 on that loan, just so you're aware. I've recieved $750,000 loans with no backing other than my own personal background. A company with Paizo's history, and that kind of backing? Sky's the limit. Meaning that I am fully aware that making this game will cost more than $1,000,000. This kickstarter is still an end-around on traditional finance, and is still a slap in the face to the initial investors due to this:
If I had backed the Kickstarter at the beginning thinking "well if they make the $1m goal, they should get a good 80% chunk <I don't know what % KS take etc> of that to fund the MMO" I would be annoyed if later I saw more stuff being added as incentives that eventually mean the MMO may only get a 65% chunk of that million. Because the less of that goal the MMO actually gets, the less likely the MMO is to see the light of day in the shorter time scales (or see light of day full stop).
By running this second one they are changing that positive into a negative, and NOW banks will see what DigitalMage is talking about. They are getting backers on this one not because of the prospect of the game, but because of the little incentives that are weaved throughout the kickstarter. Finance people are savvy, and they'll call foul on this one.
And a project funded by Kickstarter gets around 92% of the money, by the way. If it funds, Kickstarter gets around 5% and Paypal gets around 3%. The rest goes to the project designers. Interest free. No strings attached (unless you count the fact that they are supposed to deliver on the project which, so far, has usually happened). If the project designers don't deliver on the project, the only recourse people who contributed to Kickstarter have is to file lawsuit. But I think there are protections worked into the Kickstarter user agreement to handle that, too. Not that lawyers care about little things like user agreements...
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I find this severely disappointing. I have went from simply ignoring PFO to actively hoping that this kickstarter fails.
This is unfair to your loyal players and is, frankly, disheartening. As I see it, if the boon is terrible, you have enticed people with scant information to pay for an unknown boon that turned out to be worthless. If it's amazing, then you have sold power to players and will either contribute to the power creep that so many players hate or engender animosity to the improved character from the others at the table.
Either way, it's not a good thing.
It has, however, presented the first cogent argument as to why, as a GM, I might want to root for a character's permanent death. Kudos for that, I guess.
Wow. All that over $5?
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You're paying $5 to support the kickstarter and the boon is a "thank you".Unfortunately I can see some PFS players who are completely uninterested in the MMO kick in just to get the boon, which is sort of disingenuous to the Kickstarter IMO.
I just hope that Goblinworks aren't going to try to make out that the number of backers has any correlation to the number of people who want to play the MMO; if I was one of the normal investors and was told this I may make incorrect decisions as to whether my investment might make a return.
My other issue is that all these "subgoals" or whatever they are called are likely taking money out of the pot that is being raised for the MMO. Now these boons aren't likely taking much out, but other stuff is.
Stretch goals are fine as the initial goal has already been reached, but these are not stretch goals, more like "incentives" to try to even make that initial goal.
Exactly. Their initial kickstarter was very successful, and was likely a good gauge of initial subscribers. That, plus a business plan, with that initial capital as a down payment, makes for an excellent position to go to a bank or the SBA and get a loan.
And they could have easily topped $1,000,000 on that loan, just so you're aware. I've recieved $750,000 loans with no backing other than my own personal background. A company with Paizo's history, and that kind of backing? Sky's the limit. Meaning that I am fully aware that making this game will cost more than $1,000,000. This kickstarter is still an end-around on traditional finance, and is still a slap in the face to the initial investors due to this:
If I had backed the Kickstarter at the beginning thinking "well if they make the $1m goal, they should get a good 80% chunk <I don't know what % KS take etc> of that to fund the MMO" I would be annoyed if later I saw more stuff being added as incentives that eventually mean the MMO may only get a 65% chunk of...
I think you are taking this way too personally.
If you really looked at it, the initial Kickstarter was not for an MMO, but rather for a technology demo to prove that they could make an MMO given the right amount of financing.
They also explained in this new kickstarter, specifically, that they didn't want to go the traditional financing direction, because they would then be beholden to those investors in how the game was going to be made. And those investors would likely want them to use a model that was already successful (read Everquest, WOW, et. al.). They wanted to forge new ground, so they needed a different kind of investment.
If this insults you, for whatever reason, then I don't get it.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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It doesn't insult me, though reading through my stuff I can certainly see where it looks like that if you don't know my tone. I think if you'll read through ALL of my posts you'll see that I'm not saying I'm angry or upset, nor am I jumping up and down and predicting the death of PFS as we know it.
This process DOES disappoint me. I just find this unnecessary, and the scuttlebutt I'm hearing in the gaming community (stores, vendors, other tech people) echoes this opinion.
I'm not mad at Paizo. I don't care about the boon (other than the hypocrisy of essentially offering one for sale after taking a firm "don't sell your boons" stance). I don't really care about the online game in any way. It's certainly not going to affect whether I play, and if someone shows up at a table with that boon I won't mind any more than I mind a kitsune boon (meaning: not at all).
I do care about business; building a business, marketing a business, and maintaining the image of that business. It's one of my favorite topics, and I will proselytize about this as much as many will about what build of fighter is correct. This kickstarter flies in the face of a lot of my own core beliefs, so I'm being vocal about it. Especially when people tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about.
That's all. Please don't see me as being anti-PFO. I'm merely disappointed in the presentation and use of this kickstarter.
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That's all. Please don't see me as being anti-PFO. I'm merely disappointed in the presentation and use of this kickstarter.
This echoes my point of view as well.
Though, you can also group me in the skeptical of any new MMO department as well. I got burned bad by Bioware and it's pedigree after SWTOR, as far hype and expectations being met.
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It doesn't insult me, though reading through my stuff I can certainly see where it looks like that if you don't know my tone. I think if you'll read through ALL of my posts you'll see that I'm not saying I'm angry or upset, nor am I jumping up and down and predicting the death of PFS as we know it.
This process DOES disappoint me. I just find this unnecessary, and the scuttlebutt I'm hearing in the gaming community (stores, vendors, other tech people) echoes this opinion.
I'm not mad at Paizo. I don't care about the boon (other than the hypocrisy of essentially offering one for sale after taking a firm "don't sell your boons" stance). I don't really care about the online game in any way. It's certainly not going to affect whether I play, and if someone shows up at a table with that boon I won't mind any more than I mind a kitsune boon (meaning: not at all).
I do care about business; building a business, marketing a business, and maintaining the image of that business. It's one of my favorite topics, and I will proselytize about this as much as many will about what build of fighter is correct. This kickstarter flies in the face of a lot of my own core beliefs, so I'm being vocal about it. Especially when people tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about.
That's all. Please don't see me as being anti-PFO. I'm merely disappointed in the presentation and use of this kickstarter.
Fair enough.
But what if you got your 1M loan from a bank (or other investors) and you had a business plan, plan of action, and a vision for what your product would look like once you were done?
Then just as you were getting ready to really start developing said product, the investors said, "Nah, we want you to do it this way. Our way is the way its always been done, and we feel we will make more money in a shorter period of time to capitalize on our investment."
You have no choice but to make a product you really don't want to make at that point.
Paizo isn't trying to end-around the vig (albeit that is a nice side-effect, true), but rather they want to be in complete control of their product and make it their way, at their own pace.
What would you suggest they do to avoid being beholden to others who wouldn't care about your vision, but rather the bottom line?
Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston
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I guess that, really, my concern is that this is a boon that will not be available to future players and that it could be very, very broken. A random, permanent positive effect or a scenario-only gamebreaking effect is not the greatest. If we're already worried about players dominating tables, why are we doing this?
There are some effects that I wouldn't necessarily object to. "Your character gets a free resurrection" would be fine. "You receive a permanent +2 to STR that stacks with all other bonuses" would be less fine.
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I guess that, really, my concern is that this is a boon that will not be available to future players and that it could be very, very broken. A random, permanent positive effect or a scenario-only gamebreaking effect is not the greatest. If we're already worried about players dominating tables, why are we doing this?
There are some effects that I wouldn't necessarily object to. "Your character gets a free resurrection" would be fine. "You receive a permanent +2 to STR that stacks with all other bonuses" would be less fine.
I find it somewhat interesting, that your first posts about this game, were about whether it was too hard. Especially for a newby.
We had a rash of posts regarding some of the new season 4 scenarios (and late season 3) regarding how difficult they were, and that they were going to alienate the casual player and now everyone is going to need to cheese out to be able to survive, et. al.
And now as soon as this boon comes out, people are complaining about how broken its going to be, and how with the power creep and how easy all the scenarios are, that this boon is going to wreck the game... bla bla bla
See the inconsistency there?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I guess that, really, my concern is that this is a boon that will not be available to future players and that it could be very, very broken. A random, permanent positive effect or a scenario-only gamebreaking effect is not the greatest. If we're already worried about players dominating tables, why are we doing this?
There are some effects that I wouldn't necessarily object to. "Your character gets a free resurrection" would be fine. "You receive a permanent +2 to STR that stacks with all other bonuses" would be less fine.
Right, because after all, Mark and the others involved are stupid and would hand out that level of benefit, failing to realize the level of brokenness that we forumites can see so clearly. After all, it's not like they have more professional experience than you and I do regarding keeping a game/campaign balanced. Yep, the bonuses are totally gonna be broken stuff like +2 STR, and certainly wouldn't be something more cosmetic or trivial that would actually be appropriate for what the boon is.
Good catch, buddy. Hopefully Mike and Mark read your caution and take it to heart so they can learn to be as good at game balance as the rest of us.
/sarcasm
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Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston
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I had just started the game. I made those posts after my fourth session playing. Now, I'm up to 7 play sessions and 8 tables GMmed. My perspective has changed. :P Things were exacerbated by the fact that I had a very tough scenario (made almost impossible due to misread tactics) for my third session playing and that I was preparing to run a certain Season 4 scenario that has been reported to be remarkably more difficult than others in its tier level.
I'm still not a huge fan of permadeath, but I am of the opinion that there are significantly fewer problems than I thought there were.
Edit to respond to Jiggly's post: That was just an example. They will, of course, likely be more situational than that. But, we are gamers, and gamers will often find ways to break things that don't seem broken at first glance. Maybe there's something that interacts oddly with a feat or class. Heck, who would have thought that *arcane mark* could cause controversy in how it's read or that it could lead to accusations of undue power? I didn't, but there's an argument over in the Magus advice thread on the subject.
Developer
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Everybody take a deep breath. The tone of this thread has shifted rather quickly into one of personal attacks and negativism. We welcome the community's opinion about the inclusion of a Pathfinder Society Chronicle sheet as a reward for backing the Kickstarter, even if that comes in the form of criticism, but we won't tolerate the sort of back and forth flaming that I see just over the horizon of the current thread. Please play nice.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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But what if you got your 1M loan from a bank (or other investors) and you had a business plan, plan of action, and a vision for what your product would look like once you were done?
Then just as you were getting ready to really start developing said product, the investors said, "Nah, we want you to do it this way. Our way is the way its always been done, and we feel we will make more money in a shorter period of time to capitalize on our investment."
You have no choice but to make a product you really don't want to make at that point.
If you seek private investors you will have to deal with this. If they go to the SBA, the money is theirs to do with as they please. Additionally, if they're using their own investments and capital to pull this off, they have only themselves to answer to. The bank will only care when they don't get a check every month, and the response they make will not be, "Do it differently." Instead, it'll be, "Pay us, please."
So, yes, this next part is what a kickstarter allows them to do.
Paizo isn't trying to end-around the vig (albeit that is a nice side-effect, true), but rather they want to be in complete control of their product and make it their way, at their own pace.
A lot of other companies have done this. I can name multiple board and card games that got their start due to Kickstarter. Great. Now run a real business and maintain stock on that game before you put out expansions. Realize that having your game on shelves for Christmas is important and deliver more product. That's where they have failed, so far, and the beating their companies' images are taking is bad.
No, Goblinworks isn't trying to build a physical product for me right now, so the comparison is slightly unfair. But the results could be the same (and have already begun, if you look around at the buzz this particular project is creating).
What would you suggest they do to avoid being beholden to others who wouldn't care about your vision, but rather the bottom line?
Doing a kickstarter (-:
But do it right.
Of course, there are plenty of other options. That's why the SBA exists. That's why we have the banking system we have. If you're truly an entrepreneur, that's why you have a pile of cash to draw on and a lineup of friends who believe in your vision. Combine all this, and there isn't a lot that someone who is attached to The World's Leading RPG can't accomplish.
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I had just started the game. I made those posts after my fourth session playing. Now, I'm up to 7 play sessions and 8 tables GMmed. My perspective has changed. :P Things were exacerbated by the fact that I had a very tough scenario (made almost impossible due to misread tactics) for my third session playing and that I was preparing to run a certain Season 4 scenario that has been reported to be remarkably more difficult than others in its tier level.
I'm still not a huge fan of permadeath, but I am of the opinion that there are significantly fewer problems than I thought there were.
Edit to respond to Jiggly's post: That was just an example. They will, of course, likely be more situational than that. But, we are gamers, and gamers will often find ways to break things that don't seem broken at first glance. Maybe there's something that interacts oddly with a feat or class. Heck, who would have thought that *arcane mark* could cause controversy in how it's read or that it could lead to accusations of undue power? I didn't, but there's an argument over in the Magus advice thread on the subject.
I agree with you on this, and you make a good point, however, the design of the boon won't even be created until late January so there will be plenty of time for M&M to create a balanced boon.
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I had just started the game. I made those posts after my fourth session playing. Now, I'm up to 7 play sessions and 8 tables GMmed. My perspective has changed. :P Things were exacerbated by the fact that I had a very tough scenario (made almost impossible due to misread tactics) for my third session playing and that I was preparing to run a certain Season 4 scenario that has been reported to be remarkably more difficult than others in its tier level.
I'm still not a huge fan of permadeath, but I am of the opinion that there are significantly fewer problems than I thought there were.
Edit to respond to Jiggly's post: That was just an example. They will, of course, likely be more situational than that. But, we are gamers, and gamers will often find ways to break things that don't seem broken at first glance. Maybe there's something that interacts oddly with a feat or class. Heck, who would have thought that *arcane mark* could cause controversy in how it's read or that it could lead to accusations of undue power? I didn't, but there's an argument over in the Magus advice thread on the subject.
But its not just you. It seems there are a lot of people who were complaining, vociferously, 2 months ago about how things were too difficult and were going to ruin the game for the casual player and all that.
And now a boon of random permanent mutations or a one-shot +2 across the boards, is going to wreck the game?
I wish people would make up their minds. Either the game is too difficult, or its too easy (keep in mind, I think its neither).
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Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston
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Also, something else I should probably say here...I think that the game's designers do a very good job of creating balance. I'm not accusing anybody of anything. But, in a stand-alone boon, a problem can be much more serious than something in the books. Something in the books can be specifically banned without causing too much controversy, like what happened with Syntehsist and Beastmaster. If one of these boons turn out to be overly powerful, however, and somebody has paid money specifically for that, then there is a much more serious problem. Either A) you ban the boon, creating bad will from players who paid for it, B) you keep the boon around and let it contribute to power imbalance, or C) nerf the boon and make everybody only slightly angry.
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I wish people would make up their minds. Either the game is too difficult, or its too easy (keep in mind, I think its neither).
Personally, I think it's a good thing that we can shift with time. I have changed my opinion on multiple things since I've become involved with pathfinder, and PFS. Rigidity is not a good thing. God I'd hate to think what my life would be like if I wasn't ever able to change my opinion.
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Personally, I think it's a good thing that we can shift with time. I have changed my opinion on multiple things since I've become involved with pathfinder, and PFS. Rigidity is not a good thing. God I'd hate to think what my life would be like if I wasn't ever able to change my opinion.
I wish people would make up their minds. Either the game is too difficult, or its too easy (keep in mind, I think its neither).
That is true. I just find it ironic that no significant changes have happened in the last 2 months, and the same names are hyperbolizing (too easy, too difficult, ruin the game by selling boons leading to selling character power, bla bla bla)
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Everybody take a deep breath. The tone of this thread has shifted rather quickly into one of personal attacks and negativism. We welcome the community's opinion about the inclusion of a Pathfinder Society Chronicle sheet as a reward for backing the Kickstarter, even if that comes in the form of criticism, but we won't tolerate the sort of back and forth flaming that I see just over the horizon of the current thread. Please play nice.
It's a good thing I just bought +2 flame repelling armor. Now I just need to figure out how to keep it from blocking me from using my +2 backscratcher.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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But, in a stand-alone boon, a problem can be much more serious than something in the books.
...Perhaps you weren't aware that there are already tons of "stand-alone" boons in circulation, given away for free at conventions all over the place? We're not talking about something new here; Paizo has a track record for these things.
I have two copies of a boon that lets me benefit from a really bad feat for one round, and it's a teamwork feat so someone else would have to already have it (or have this boon), and even then it's not worth the effort to pull the boon out of my binder.
I have another boon that gives a +1 to hit against creatures with the oni subtype, and teaches my PC Tien as a bonus language.
There are bazillions of other options out there, none of which have negatively impacted the game.
Heck, this new one could be an assortment of existing boons for all we know.
So rest assured, boons are something that PFS is used to, and not likely to fall prey to the "it's not like the books" issue you're talking about.
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Contributor
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I've thought about this, and I guess I'm in the camp of those who don't really see it as an issue.
There doesn't seem to me to be any ethical difference between this proposed boon for supporting the Kickstarter and in gaining some in-game benefit or option by (a) purchasing a novel and gaining its attendant Chronicle, (b) purchasing a new product like Ultimate Combat and "unlocking" access to new feats, spells, or even classes, (c) or purchasing a t-shirt that grants a reroll. I note that all of those things cost more than five dollars, by the way.
(And just to sidetrack my own argument, I do think there's a difference between supporting the Kickstarter and receiving a boon at a convention where Paizo does not directly sponsor and therefore hope to fiscally profit from the convention. I think those boons are fine, to be sure, I just think they're of different category.)
(Even further sidetracking, I also think there's a difference between this and the reroll granted by simply having a Character Folio laying on the table because I maintain that's an outsized bonus in favor of players--I personally believe the reroll should only be granted if the player is actually using the Folio for the character she's playing--though of course I will always grant it as that doesn't seem to be the way it's generally interpreted.)
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I don't really get the doomsday stuff.
Kickstarters give donors gifts. A boon is a gift that costs Paizo nothing, and may draw people into pfs. As long as the boon isn't too crazy, this is simply smart business for paizo.
Also, as a one time use boon with a random effect, I highly doubt it will be crazy. It would seem more like fun than crazy. I expect the craziest it would be would be something like:
Roll a d6 to determine the effect for a single scenario (1 time use).
1= +2 str
2= +2 dex
3= +2 con
4= +2 int
5= +2 wis
6= +2 cha
etc.
As a boon for a single scenario, this isn't crazy. "Yeah, I am a fighter with +2 int for the scenario....." Even getting the stat you want is still non-earth shattering. +1 to hit and damage for 1 scenario or +1 dc is enough to feel some benefit, but it is highly unlikly that it would win any scenarios you wouldn't already have won.
Some people may be exited enough by this sort of boon to give $5 or more, and that's the point of offering it. I'm not one of them. I forget to use all the boons I already have. Seriously, I have yet to use a single use boon ever in PFS.
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Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston
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Jiggy: The difference between those boons and these, though, is how widespread they will be. Those boons are only given out at cons, meaning that there is limited circulation. These boons will go to everybody who has donated $5, which is likely a much more significant proportion of the PFS player base.
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Contributor
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Jiggy: The difference between those boons and these, though, is how widespread they will be. Those boons are only given out at cons, meaning that there is limited circulation. These boons will go to everybody who has donated $5, which is likely a much more significant proportion of the PFS player base.
They have the same theoretical cap on distribution that the boons associated with the novels have--the set of all PFS players who want to lay out a little money to get them.
Note that in both instances, the player gets an added benefit other than the boon. Supporting the development of the video game in one case and reading the novel or novels in the other.
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Drogon
I'm watching Kickstarter with s lot of interest as a recent small business owner myself, albeit by far not comparable in experience to you.
I see Kickstarter fullfill two different functions
A) raising money
B) aquiring new customers and generating exposure
I can't speak for Paizo - but B) can be as portably a reason - or in case I would ever do one - an even more important reason.
Is it risk free? Looking at this thread it seems that generating exposure also can cause bad press which could defy what you like to achieve.
But reading through your posts I felt they are only looking at one part. Banks don't get you exposure and customers.
And one more aspect - the Kickstarter could attract a different kind if clientele to start with in the game which has more a long term interest in the game in mind and therefore might be more valuable as someone signing up for the same money on 15 month time.
An interesting aspect would be if Paizo is getting to big for B) to work properly - or if Kickstarter becomes to swamped and the bubble is starting to deflate.
Guess time will tell if it was a smart move or not. Or maybe some bits worked, some didn't.
Disclaimer: my opinion is possibly influenced by being a Goblin Squad member and a Crowdforger Buddy for me and my son.
They have the same theoretical cap on distribution that the boons associated with the novels have--the set of all PFS players who want to lay out a little money to get them.
Note that in both instances, the player gets an added benefit other than the boon. Supporting the development of the video game in one case and reading the novel or novels in the other.
What's theoretical about it?
Apples and oranges comparison.
PF Tales you buy a book and get a boon as an added bonus. And maybe you haven't seen what the PF Tales boons offer but it is in no way even close to having and Advanced Template for an entire scenario. Which doesn't even take into account the possible permanent status effect.
With this KS you spend $5, get a boon but after that you have no guarantee of anything other than a refund if the funding doesn't meet the pre-set goal.
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Contributor
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Apples and oranges comparison.
PF Tales you buy a book and get a boon as an added bonus. And maybe you haven't seen what the PF Tales boons offer but it is in no way even close to having and Advanced Template for an entire scenario. Which doesn't even take into account the possible permanent status effect.
With this KS you spend $5, get a boon but after that you have no guarantee of anything other than a refund if the funding doesn't meet the pre-set goal.
I don't think it's apples and oranges. In both cases you're getting a boon that's only available after you lay out some cash. You seem to think that some kind of qualitative difference in the mechanical effect of the boon effects the ethics of the situation, an assertion I disagree with.
(For what it's worth, I recently purchased all the novels for my Nook, and am printing out and applying the boons to my characters as I finish reading each book in turn.)
There is a gain associated with the Kickstarter whether it's funded or not (other than the boon), one that no doubt varies from supporter to supporter, but is probably often expressed as personal satisfaction, pride, or the feeling of giving back to or paying forward to a community. These gains are not material, but they nonetheless exist and, I assert, are of ethical and moral relevance to these arguments.
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Sounds pretty Fantastic. I know the players in my area will be excited to hear. Offering perks for bought items is something Paizo has been doing for a while and has been pretty up front an honest about.
It is not much different than the Boons out of the Pathfinder Tales, the Free Reroll from having an official shirt or any of the other incentives to support the company.
I know the PFS members in my region have a great deal of faith in the Paizo staff to keep things in check, and make sure things are kept well and balanced.
Lets face it - keeping the PFS and other aspects of Paizo cost money. Pathfinder Online is something they are pouring much effort in to. So bottom line if you want to get the boon, if you want to support the company providing one of your hobbies, if you want to pitch in because you are interested in Pathfinder Online - These are all good and valid reasons to toss in five bucks.
If you are not interested in the boon, have no interest in Pathfinder Online, or just don't want to toss in money for any other varied reasons, than don't. No harm - no foul.
I'll be tossing in my monies - Boon be darned - I am having high hopes for the Pathfinder Online game. :3
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Or all the histrionics over a boon are amusing to meBecause calmly expressing disappointment is clearly doom saying?
Careful...only fanboys deal in absolutes.
Those conditions are not mutually exclusive. Also:
Histrionics:
1: theatrical performances
2: deliberate display of emotion for effect
I'm not seeing either of those here -- except from you. On a related note, where do I sign up for my "Defenders of Paizo" badge? How is the pay?
Can we please can the constant jumping down the throats of people who dare to express any sort of negative opinion about anything this company does? Frankly, it's embarrassing.
For the record, I don't really care about this boon. I'm not kicking in $5 -- I don't want to encourage this sort of thing -- but if one day someone at my table did, good for them. I'll resolve it as indicated and move on.
Lets face it - keeping the PFS and other aspects of Paizo cost money.
Agreed. Its why I purchase rulebooks, scenarios, minis, maps and other various products made by Paizo.
Pathfinder Online is something they are pouring much effort in to.
They sure are, two kickstarters and employees mentioning being stretched thin is proof.
So bottom line if you want to get the boon,
Should we be paying to get the boon or paying to help the MMO?
if you want to support the company providing one of your hobbies,
You bet I do*.
*see above
If you are not interested in the boon, have no interest in Pathfinder Online, or just don't want to toss in money for any other varied reasons, than don't. No harm - no foul.
But it does harm me. As a player and a GM paying $5 to have as powerful a boon as described is distasteful and against all precedent.
And the reason I have voiced my disagreement with this option is in the hopes that Paizo thinks twice before offering boons for dollars again.
bugleyman, am I missing a pop-culture reference? Of the body?
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Master Batier, Trapsmith