Hello, i will be joining a group when the christmas break is over and i need some advice regarding which class fits what i want to play.
I played in the Rise of the Runelords campaign when it was first published and that was my only experience with anything after second edition D&D.
I used to play a lot of rangers, druids or mages, so this is an attempt at something different.
Ok, some background information.
This is a Carion Crown campaign that is nearing the end of the second book.
The party consist of a witch, a paladin, a druid/ranger, a cleric ( that may switch classes because i am joining), a gunslinger, and a magus ( that is only there occasionally).
The whole group just hit level 6 and the DM is more concerned about the players playing what they want to play, not what the party needs.
I really like this concept from the deadlands game. Here is some of the info given on the templar.
Templars are a strange lot. They turn their backs on entire villages one day, then give their lives for a single child the next. Their philosophy centers around worth, piety, and the greater good. They protect those who they feel benefit the world with their lives. Those who do nothing to help civilization, and who might even harm it, are not to be defended. They don’t help the wicked and don’t have any compunction about “blackmailing” a settlement or individual into changing their ethics in return for their help.
Some have called them selfish, and there is a certain truth to it. Templars believe their lives are valuable to the future of humanity, and they don’t risk them without a good reason.
This is a bit more about their attitude and how to play one.
With all the Templars’ power comes a lot of responsibility. The hard part about being a Templar isn’t helping out every waster that comes along—it’s turning them down. Think about it. Say a settlement in the Maze is looking for someone to save it from croakers. Your hero can’t just jump on top of the town walls and dare the fishmen to get him like he would if he were a Law Dog. Instead, he’ll have to infiltrate the town, talk with the civilians, and then find out if they’re worth risking his life for. And that’s what it all comes down to: a good Templar doesn’t think of it as “his” life. It’s the world’s. He’s been entrusted with the power of goodness in a world of evil. There are only so many weapons like him, and if he risks himself on some unworthy cause, the darkness may lose the battle but win the war.
Think “selfish.” That’s what the Templars are. At least until they judge a cause worthy of their effort. Then they become utterly selfless. That’s tough to play sometimes. As a human being, you may want to help a family of ranchers
threatened by hordes of undead. If you later find out the family likes to hunt mutants for sport on weekends, you might have to say adios. Even if there are innocents at risk, like the ranchers’ children. You might make the mother and father do all the dangerous stuff while you stay back to protect their kids—that fits the Templar philosophy. But even then you risk making orphans of the innocents, and that’s almost as monstrous as turning your back on them.
These are the moral dilemmas a Templar face every day. That can be a real challenge to roleplay. Sometimes your friends will think your character’s a complete bastard. Other times, she’s Joan of Arc herself.
I was thinking an inquisitor might work, but i am not sure if this is inquisitor, or a paladin of sorts.
Please note that many d&d campaigns will not have the time to allow a player to infiltrate a town under disguise, then learn about the people, only to decide from there.
What i was thinking is that instead of infiltrating a town etc, i could use information gathering, a high sense motive and a mix of augury spells along with buff spells.
What i need help with is:
1.) What alignment is this?
2.) What gods will allow me to be this selfish sort?
3.) What domains work with this basic concept?
4.) Do any races stand out as being a better choice than any others? I am trying my best to create a character concept, not one focused on min/max.
5.) Since we have a good mix of spells and ranged, should i just play a switch hitter that uses most of his feats on ranged weapons, while just picking up power attack?
6.) Should i multiclass to give me more feats to have more room to play?
I believe this is a good start with regards to what i need help with.
I do view this guy as a grizzled old veteran, even if he may be younger. He's the kind grandpa you would hate to piss off sort of person, so yes, i will have a high intimidate score. I also really like the idea of my character being introduced as a friend to the general that put the 30-40 ( can't remember the exact number) militia desserters on pikes. That's just too cool.
Thank you for any help given.
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If he is doing infiltration, he'll be an inquisitor, not a paladin (most likely).
Alignment wise, I'd guess somewhere between Chaotic Good and True Neutral. If they are breaking laws and doing strange things for the greater good, that's chaotic good. If they "turn their backs on entire villages one day, then give their lives for a single child the next," that might be chaotic neutral. If they are selfish, but won't commit evil acts, that's likely True Neutral.
Dipping Fighter from Inquisitor is a good idea, for heavy armor proficiency, an extra feat, a little BAB, and more weapon choices.
Concept wise, you could probably do any race, though Human and Half-Orc stick out. But only you can make that call.
I'm not sure about the gods.
I shy away from switch hitters, and tend to specialize, but again, totally your call.
Check this out if you need more help choosing a class.
sounds like an inquisitor or paladin (more the former than latter)--a thing to note: deities work in mysterious ways--they've chosen to grant you a sliver of their power to use, knowing full well who you are and how you'll use it (normally, anyway. it should take a catastrophic shift of [your character's] worldview and actions to cause a fall anyway, not some minor quibble as some are apt to do).
why would a god choose a champion of their will without the strength of character to conduct themselves in a manner they'd approve of?
choosing to be cautious in your endeavors simply shows you're taking your job seriously: "i can't help anyone when i'm dead, so i'd best work to save peoples lives while not throwing my own away carelessly. minor squabbles can wait, the greater good takes precedence."
also remember if your teammates complain: lawful isn't always fair, good isn't always nice--you serve a higher calling for the good of all. playing LG (should you choose to) means you follow what you believe to be right and proper while obeying local customs and authority, should you recognize it as legitimate.
I'd suggest picking a god by asking what greater good your character aims at, then finding one that fits that aim.
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I agree with the Inquisitor. I would make him a CG or NG inquisitor of Milani.
This person sounds like a tough call between chaotic and neutral. The Idea that the greatest good must be accomplished and that sometimes mean not saving everyone sounds more neutral to me but hey.
I would choose the liberation domain or the good domain.
Human, half-orc and half-elf all stand out to me or givin the AP maybe Dampire. They all have the social issues that might breed this kind of person.
If you have a good mix of spells and ranged then go full melee. maybe take a level of fighter for the armor (mithril full plate so you can use your abilities) and then be a beat stick. take a lowish wis (14) and high strength and use your spells to buff yourself.
A couple of other ideas:
Crusader Cleric - Perhaps of the god Abadar and going with an alignment of LN and being basically a judge dredd kind of guy.
Battle Oracle - Going with a guy who has seen many battles, but he is basically god touched and knows how to use spells to benefit him. You could be a follower of Iomedae with an alignment from LN or NG.
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Alignment for this is quite tricky. The good/evil scale IMO translates to selfless vs selfish, so if he's ready to give up his life for his sense of ethics, that's definitely good. Chaotic vs Lawful is more tricky. For me, it boils down to whether a character values individual freedom or some set of rules, codes, or ethics; talk with your GM, but I'd say lawful is a better fit than chaotic here. His behavior is very much bound by his code of ethics, and he insists that others follow it before he helps them; it's just that his code of ethics is not as straightforward as Mr. Sparkling Paladin's.
I don't see any one race being particularly great for this, but if I had to narrow it down, I'd say human, half-elf, half-orc, or dwarf would be best. Halflings make excellent infiltrators, but this viewpoint is fairly uncharacteristic of them, or of gnomes. Elves' constitution penalty is pretty harsh, and they don't fit the concept too well either.
Inquisitor definitely fits best, though Oracle could be quite interesting as well. You could maybe get away with Paladin depending on your GM; this would almost certainly be the best melee option. Inquisitors, however, are much more adept at learning about and tracking down foes, infiltrating, etc., and have the flexibility to say no to quests that paladins are duty-bound to accept.
For fighting options, you're probably best off with going for a high-strength buff-with-spells beatdown option. Inquisitors are already a little MAD, and archery wants not only stats but a bucket of feats that you don't have. I wouldn't count on your DCs being too high, either; a Cleric can get away with pumping his wisdom and focusing on spells, but not an Inquisitor. Multiclassing might be worthwhile - for my PFS inquisitor, Scruff McGruff (Private Eye), I splashed a level of Fighter to get weapon proficiency, heavy armor, tower shields, and an extra feat, and I think it was worthwhile.
Good luck with your character!
Here's another couple of thoughts that just occurred to me: Detective Bard - No alignment restrictions, you can play him however you wanted. He's just really good at tracking things down and utilizing his cleverness.
Infiltrator Ranger - You can pick your favored enemies and go with human, elf, dwarf, etc. This would allow you to get in and find out what's going on. Then being a ranger, you have all the other goodies that go with it.
Thank you very much for these replies.
Huh, you have enlightened me to other possibilities.
I had not even thought about an Oracle and didn't know about the Crusader Cleric.
As far as what you wrote Bearded Ben. That being- I'd suggest picking a god by asking what greater good your character aims at, then finding one that fits that aim.
I'd say that the godess Milani is a good choice.
He's a protector of the downtrodden. The kind that most adults don't notice, or dislike, yet children and animals seem to see past his facade.
It's a bit tough to say as i haven't played that Rise of the Runelords game for almost a year, so characters are a bit sketchy.
I almost see this guy as someone who would travel from place to place investigating strange occurances and attempting to set things right if he deems it worthy of his attentions. I have always liked the concept of a dirty Paladin so to speak. The type of character who I usually seen fighting a battle from the trenches who is covered in mud and looks pissed.
He is not afraid of using such tactics as interrogation or murder, as long as it's for a greater good. His choices are carefuly weighed before he commits to a coarse of action as shortsightedness and lack of information can lead to horrible long-term results.
I almost see this as the type of character that you'd see in a Warhammer game.
Very mean, filled with grit and gristle, and willing to do anything to get the job done. Less the zeal-filled heretic, and more the quiet warrior who sees everything and battles evil with a righteous hand while using anything or anyone at his disposal.
I picture his clothes as whatever fits in with his surrounding. He's a blending in sort, only becoming a holy badass when he has no other option or when he is not under surveillance.
hmm
Is this a human or a dwarf? Is this a misguided Asimaar?
Is this more and more of an inquisitor?
Also, i think the Travel domain would be great, as would the Good Domain but Apsu and Desna do not seem to fit this concept as one is a Dragon god and another a Fairy goddess.
The more I read the more I hear Inquisitor....no one noticed him entered town, but they damn well feel his presence when he's ready for them to, then he walks off into the sunset to find the next town that needs him (cue theme music from "Kung Fu").
Not sure how well it fits into your concept, but to counteract some of the Multi Ability drama I chose the Heresy inquisition for my current Inquisitor (also in Carrion Crown, Inquisitor of Pharasma with a 2 level fighter dip). Allowed me to dump CHA while still having good Intimidate and not 'wasting' the feat on Intmidating Prowess.
Depending on the campaign, Human probably blends in better than anything else. Also agree with the fighter dip (obviously) for all the reasons already stated.
Sounds like youve got a great concept here, good luck with it!
Ok, so this is an update to the progression of this character and i have new questions.
I got lost in the mechanics of making this character because i wanted him to have as many feats towards his progression as possible.
I went zen archer monk 4/inquisitor 2.
He was a badass with his archery, but a monk does not fit the concept in the least bit.
Ok, first... our magus and our gunslinger had to bow out, so we are left with a Witch, Svirfneblin Cave Druid/Ranger(eventually Horizon Walker.. i think), a cleric( with sun and healing domains) and a Stonelord Paladin.
So we have a tanky, and 3 casters.
We seem to need both a ranged character and maybe another frontline fightery sort.
I keep thinking going switch hitter would be good. I'd love to be able to pull this off, but i am unsure how to do this without using all my feats on archery alone.
I get the fact that you only need the primary 5 feats to be good at ranged combat; those being point blank shot, precise shot, deadly aim, rapid shot and multishot.
I would love to have some free feats for Instant Judgement and other goodies.
I picture this guy haveing a greatsword, composite longbow, a mace with shield ring and maybe some holy brass knuckles.
So, it seems a dip into fighter or playing a half-orc are the primary ways of making this work.
As far as races go, i love the dwarf because of its armor familiarity.
Human, Aasimar and half-orc all seem ok as races, but that's a tough one to know as of yet.
Um, we have no thief. The DM has stated that we can get past a lot of traps by just using a bit of ingenuity, so whatever.
We are in a carrion crown game so i don't believe going the intimidate route is going to work due to a lot of undead eventually.
So how do i pull this off? If i try to go full archery i will also need weapon focus, snap shot, improved snap shot, combat reflexes and improved precise shot.
That's 10 feats over his complete career. This seems to be a bit much.
How do i do this?
Am i asking for too much?
Will i still be able to be a bit stealthy while interrogating evil-doers?
Please remember, we have 1 frontline person as a Stonelord and basically, it's all casters.
As far as diieties. I like Abbadar, Desna, Ragathiel, and Milani.
The Travel domain looks a bit too good to pass up, although, after extensive reading, it seems i will get most of the abilities from the Travel domain anyway(via spells etc.)
Also, please be aware that i ran the possibility of being full BAB and having all martial weapons, with heavy armor, while using the paladin spell list accross the GM and he said it's a no go as he has already told others that they cannot switch out abilities to emulate a rogue.
Shameless bump
Ok haven't read entirely but based on what you said in another thread.
Inquisitor of Gorum:
-Pick-up Heavy Armour Proficiency.
-Mithril Full-Plate.
-Alternately: If you can use Piecemeal Armour I can get you a cheaper and better version.
-Greatsword.
-Heavy Mace+Quickdraw Light Steel Shield.
-Longbow.
-Power Attack.
I think i may have found a solution to this problem.
There is a cavalier order that seems to fit well.
This would only be a 1 level dip, for the armor and all martial proficiencies.
order of the land
or even
order of the seal
I like both of these, even order of the dragon.
Maybe i can modify order of the land a little, but i will ask the gm... Does this fit?
Why am i asking?
This character creation stuff is a pain in the butt, i just want to bring my concept to life, not fiddle with all these rules and whatnot.
So, the more research i do, the more lost i get.
Gorum does not fit my concept at all, so he is out.
Is it better to stay with the monk dip over the fighter dip due to the fact that i will have a better AC versus touch attacks at a higher level while still retaining all those free feats?
I know that a fighter will be able to go full plate and if my DM allows Celestial Full Plate, then i am golden.
Maybe i just need to change this concept... That's the one thing i hate about D&D. I come up with a concept i want to play and the rules seem to always get in my way. /whine over
I would consider the "templar" ideology to be Lawful Neutral.
Here's why:
A good character will help others with good deeds even if those people don't actually deserve it. Let's face it... they rarely do.
A neutral character can do good deeds for others, but usually expects them to earn it in some way. A typical neutral character does it for a reward. A chaotic neutral character does it on a whim. But a Lawful Neutral character could do it out of adherence to a code and set of standards. If the people live up to his standards, they have earned his help. If they do not, they do not deserve his help, and he is not forced to give it.
A Lawful Neutral character can still see his "mission" as one of saving the world, only his perceived enemies will be the forces of chaos; outlawry, destruction, and the dissolution of civilization. To him, such things would be seen as "evil," though they are not evil in the game sense. But they would mesh with the Templar's concept of right and wrong.
With this in mind, inquisitor might work. So might some form of monk.
Hope that is useful.
Peet
Good characters just need to be nice. They don't have to absolutely self-sacrificing.
I would consider the "templar" ideology to be Lawful Neutral.
Here's why:
A good character will help others with good deeds even if those people don't actually deserve it. Let's face it... they rarely do.
A neutral character can do good deeds for others, but usually expects them to earn it in some way. A typical neutral character does it for a reward. A chaotic neutral character does it on a whim. But a Lawful Neutral character could do it out of adherence to a code and set of standards. If the people live up to his standards, they have earned his help. If they do not, they do not deserve his help, and he is not forced to give it.
A Lawful Neutral character can still see his "mission" as one of saving the world, only his perceived enemies will be the forces of chaos; outlawry, destruction, and the dissolution of civilization. To him, such things would be seen as "evil," though they are not evil in the game sense. But they would mesh with the Templar's concept of right and wrong.
With this in mind, inquisitor might work. So might some form of monk.
Hope that is useful.
Peet
That is actually very usefull and sounds like a what i want to do.
I was originally going to pick Travel just because it's cool, but i am starting to learn that i don't need to pick that as i can get most of those abilities via spells.
Any advice on an Inquisition or Domain that fits this concept?
That is actually very usefull and sounds like a what i want to do.
I was originally going to pick Travel just because it's cool, but i am starting to learn that i don't need to pick that as i can get most of those abilities via spells.
Any advice on an Inquisition or Domain that fits this concept?
OK, if you are taking the Inquisitor class, bonus spells are not a factor. Inquisitors don't get bonus spells. So you only concern yourself with the powers the domain gives you, not spells.
Now, the big deal about the Travel Domain is that it gives you a permanent extra +10 feet to your movement. The other powers are useful too. I prefer the Exploration subdomain though that is a non-combat effect. It does often help you prepare for encounters though because it sometimes lets you see them before they happen.
Since you have an ideology, though, you could look at the deities and try to find one that fits the way your character lives. Or you could not have a deity at all, and just have your ideology as your faith.
Some domains that might fit the concept in my mind would be Law (or Loyalty), Protection, Community, Strength (probably the Resolve subdomain). Also maybe the Glory domain or its subdomains.
For Inquisitions, the Truth or Justice inquisitions seem good. Maybe Valor or Order. Heresy or Conversion would be decent if you want to do an intimidation skill build, though you need to have a deity for that.
Peet
I have learned a couple of other things that i might need some help with as well.
Sry to make this drag on, i just hate having to switch characters all the time because they do not fit a concept. It sucks and is not fun, so i ask a lot of questions.
Ok, the Trade subdomain of Travel is cool and works well with what i am trying to accomplish. I will just try to keep my Disguise up as high as possible.
I looked at the Inquisitor 6th level spells and, while they are good, i do not want them. None of them fit the concept in any way.
The 5th levels spells? Ok, they are not only cool, but i could see my character going Righteous on someone.. Beware his wrath.
Is this still the class for me?
I also noticed the Gray Warden/Gardner
This prestige class is actually kinda cool and may fit. Still a bit iffy on this though.
Also, as far as races go the Tiefling, Sylph, Oread and the above listed all seem like they would be fun to play. Still trying my best to not let the Optimization bug ruin the concept.
One thing to note. The Zen Archer monk may end up being the class i take a 4 level dip into. Not sure if i should carry it further as i do not like those pesky 6th level spells.
Am i just not looking at the right class?
Am i doing something wrong here?
Maybe there is another combo that could let me do the same?
Thank you for any... anything you might suggest to help.
Take the justicar PrC... It was built to help out inquisitors that don't want their top tier spells.
Then you can dip whatever you like... Maybe rogue 2?