Which Adventure Path Should I Choose?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Our group converted to Pathfinder about 18 months ago. Initially I was running society adventures but recently we started Curse of the Riven Sky, which we're about half way through.

After that concludes we've decided to have a crack at an Adventure Path. Trouble is, I don't know which one to run. I'm not keen on playing the early paths because I don't want to have to convert from 3.5. I'm playing in Rise of the Rune Lords in another group so that's also out.

Does anyone have any recommendations on which one to go with?


Kingmaker.
I personally think that It's the best AP since "Age of Worms"

Exploring the wilderness, having control over what happens, mass warfare, politics, intrigue and ruling a kingdom..... there's nothing like it.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

And another thing, I have 6 players in my group yet the Adventure Paths are for 4 players. I know that the Society Scenarios are easily scalable, is that the same with the Adventure Paths?


Some APs have six-player fan conversions available... Check the board for each of them, particularly the GM threads for each module.

It will require some GM work, but then any AP does that.

I like Kingmaker a lot.

Dark Archive

I have played the following campaigns.

Shackled City
Age of Worms
Savage Tide
Kingmaker
Legacy of Fire
Rise of the Rune Lords

I really really really really love Legacy of Fire. It is so unusual compared to other plays. The environment and the mood is absolutely fantastic. When we play. The only light we have on is candles in red glass. With Arabic-desert background music. Two big water pipes and this living red light.

The mood is the best. There is also a great stronghold building part in it. Where they have to defend and retake it again later.

It is written in 3.5. But there is great guy on the forums who made all the conversions + extra side quests and all kind of sweet stuff.


While I agree that Kingmaker is great fun, I have three significant cautions.

First is the quality of the second half of the AP. The first two books are very, very good and the third is chiseled from pure, crystalline awesome, but the fourth struggles greatly, the fifth is plain bad, and the sixth is both bad and comes so completely out of left field that you could substitute the final book from any other AP and not have it be any more the non sequitur -- and no, I'm not exaggerating.

But of course with Kingmaker the point isn't the adventures as written, it's your PCs founding and running a kingdom. In my game I intend to simply not run books 4-6 and instead concentrate on the many, many, many plotlines that arise organically through play. But of course that negates to a considerable extent the primary reason to run an AP in the first place, which is that someone else is writing the adventures for you so you don't need write them yourself.

This leads me to the second caution, which is that Kingmaker isn't a normal campaign. The GM isn't just running encounters and adjudicating a little RP on the side. The GM has to create an entire kingdom and more of NPCs, plotlines, and intrigue. Because every campaign will be different, necessarily essentially none of this is written in the books. Yeah there are a few NPC quest givers, but to run the game properly the GM needs to create and keep track of literally hundreds of NPCs before the whole thing is over. I can't overstate how much work this is. Kingmaker is more work for me than any campaign I've ever run since I started gaming in 1977, and that includes games where I created the whole campaign world from scratch.

Lastly, it's also complicated to play, assuming your players want to get the most out of it. Yes you can run the kingdom in the background if you want to focus on the adventures as written, but as I discussed above, the last half of the AP isn't worth the candle. The fun comes from creating and running the kingdom and really putting your mark on the world in a way no other AP lets you do, and that's a lot of work for the players too, and it involves subsystems that need significant nudging to keep from coming apart. It's a major investment on the players' parts too, very much above and beyond what they'd be asked to do in a normal campaign.

Just my thoughts.

Dark Archive

I began to think.

How much lore do you know about the pathfinder universe? When I was converted into pathfinder it was STRAIGHT into Rise of the runelords. And there was alot of things what would have been so much more awesome - if we as players simply knew more about the world.

This factor might have alot to do, as some AP's uses far more lore than others.


I have to disagree very strongly with Gregg in that I find the last book of Kingmaker IMMENSELY awesome. I love the Fey involvement, the sheer insanity of the uprising, and the wackiness and bizarreness and Alice In Wonderland-like nature of Sound of a Thousand Screams. If you and your players are into that kind of thing as I am, I heartily recommend it.

But I do agree that without some heavy reworking from the GM the plot thread - which while it is extant in all six chapters, it is very thin and very much behind the scenes - does take some severe revision to bring out to the point where it doesn't blindside the PCs. If you can fiddle with it and work that arrangement out - the KM forum has a LOT of advice on this - it can create a beautiful, bizarre storyline with what's already in place in the AP, with yes a bit of work on the GM's part but in my opinion a story that's very much worth it.


Orthos wrote:
I have to disagree very strongly with Gregg...

Of course you'd say that, given your avatar! ;-)


=)

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Picking an AP is like picking an ice cream. You need to pick one that suits you and your group's tastes.

Heavy Roleplaying - Second Darkness, Council of Thieves, Jade Regent
Heavy Dungeon Crawling - Shackled City, Rise of the Runelords, Shattered Star
Heavy Story - Savage Tide, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Age of Worms
Heavy Player-Driven - Kingmaker, Skull and Shackles, Serpent's Skull
Horror - Carrion Crown
Urban - Road to Revolution
Psionic - Third Dawn
Evil - Way of the Wicked
Heavy railroading - Legacy of Fire
You enjoy making players roll new characters every session - Slumbering Tsar

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Tier 1 (creme de la creme) - Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, Curse of the Crimson Throne
Tier 2 (great, but not for everyone) - Kingmaker, Legacy of Fire, Carrion Crown, Shattered Star
Tier 3 (flawed gems) - Jade Regent, Skull and Shackles
Tier 4 (MEH) - Council of Thieves, Serpent's Skull, Second Darkness

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

A lot of great feedback there, thanks very much. My party is made up of predominately crawlers, with probably 2 RP'ers (1 ultra heavy).

I'll be honest and say that I like things to be easily laid out with minimal work required. With that being the case I'm going to discount anything that hasn't been converted.

Looking at the advice above I'd say that the most appropiate option would be Shattered Star, although I'm still open to other options.

Hopefully Shattered Star has a 6 player conversion on the forums.

Cheers

Prux.

Liberty's Edge

Shattered Star is definitely for you given what you have said. It also does not really need any adaptation for six players. I have five in mine with 20 pt buy and it is a pretty tough run for them. It is heavy crawling, but the RPers will still have plenty of opportunities.

I know you said PF not 3.5 but Shackled City is a phenomenal crawler as well and goes all the way to 20th, so if you can find the hardcover it might be worth checking out.


Prux wrote:

A lot of great feedback there, thanks very much. My party is made up of predominately crawlers, with probably 2 RP'ers (1 ultra heavy).

I'll be honest and say that I like things to be easily laid out with minimal work required. With that being the case I'm going to discount anything that hasn't been converted.

Looking at the advice above I'd say that the most appropiate option would be Shattered Star, although I'm still open to other options.

Hopefully Shattered Star has a 6 player conversion on the forums.

Cheers

Prux.

A very sound choice. So far, all the books I've had a chance to really examine (1-4) have been excellent, really well written, very creative, and a lot of fun.


I am playing in two APs at the moment, Kingmaker and Carrion Crown.
Of those I really love Kingmaker and I more or less endure CC. It's just not my cup of tea.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As a warning, Shattered Star is tied very closely with Rise of the Runelords with some tid bits from Second Darkness and Curse of the Crimson Throne. If you're playing in a RotRL game, running Shattered Star could spoil some of your game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Garreth Baldwin wrote:
As a warning, Shattered Star is tied very closely with Rise of the Runelords with some tid bits from Second Darkness and Curse of the Crimson Throne. If you're playing in a RotRL game, running Shattered Star could spoil some of your game.

Some of that depends on how far along they are in Rise & if they can stay farther along in Raise than they get in Shattered Star.

If they are at least through Parts 1 & 2 in Rise & they can stay 2 parts ahead or so, it might actually be pretty fun.
The opportunities for 'Hey, thaaaaats what was going on?!?!..' moments are kind of neat, I think.

Silver Crusade

You will find champoins of all Adventure Paths. Personally I found Kingmaker less than satisfying but it has a very vocal following and I can see why.

The moral is choose the AP that appeals to you and your group. The truth is that they are all good. Some (Second Darkness, Serpent's Skull & Kingmaker) need extra work, that's all.

Which do you want to run?

Dark Archive

FallofCamelot wrote:
Personally I found Kingmaker less than satisfying

Why if I may ask? :)


My group has been running Carrion Crown for 18 months or so, we are finally in the last book. My group has liked it a lot!

Silver Crusade

Saganen Hellheart wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
Personally I found Kingmaker less than satisfying
Why if I may ask? :)

Well books one, two and three were great and initially kingdom building was fun. Unfortunately, we found books 4 and 5 very dull plot wise and the shine had gone off random exploring (oh look, two chimerae, *yawn*)and rinse and repeat kingdom building. Book six, whilst excellent in itself, is not the ending this AP deserved as it is foreshadowed very poorly, has nothing to do with the kingdom building theme of the AP and seems incredibly tacked on. A much better and more logical end to the AP would have been:

Spoiler:
a war for survival against Brevoy.

Which would have bookended the AP nicely and is ironically already much better foreshadowed within the AP than the actual ending. Instead what we got was the equivalent of having George R.R. Martin end a Game of Thrones by having Godzilla turn up. A TPK on the final encounter didn't help either.

My group has finished 5 AP's (SD, LoF, CotCT, KM and CC) and of those 5 I would put them in the order, LoF, CC, CotCT and SD equal and then Kingmaker in last place. To be fair we are almost at the end of Shackled City and I think that will take last place for me due to dungeon crawl overload.

All that said this is merely my opinion. I don't hate Kingmaker, we had fun, it's just that my experience of the other AP's was more positive.


The big drawback of Shackled City will be that the OP does not want to do all the work converting 3.5 to PF. I'm playing through Shackled City right now and our DM has had some frustration with the amount of work he has to do to convert everything over.

On the other hand, he is a really detail oriented, numbers guy. He's concerned with us keeping up - experience-wise and maintaining wealth by level, so he's working hard to make those numbers match up.

Either way, I'm really enjoying the campaign and wishing that we had the time to play more than once a month.

Gingerbreadman, I find it funny that you are "enduring" Carrion Crown, yet have the Beast of Lepidstat as your avatar. ;)

Good luck with your choice, Prux!

-Aaron

Silver Crusade

Well if anyone wants to do a 3.5 AP in Pathfinder the best thing to do is chuck XP out the window and level at strategic points throughout the story, otherwise you are in for a world of headaches.

Silver Crusade

Coridan wrote:
Heavy railroading - Legacy of Fire

Oh so unfair to my favourite AP!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

FallofCamelot wrote:
Coridan wrote:
Heavy railroading - Legacy of Fire
Oh so unfair to my favourite AP!

I don't know, the transition from Book 2 to Book 3 is a little forced - but the transition from Book 3 to Book 4 is a LOT forced.


FallofCamelot wrote:
Saganen Hellheart wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
Personally I found Kingmaker less than satisfying
Why if I may ask? :)

Well books one, two and three were great and initially kingdom building was fun. Unfortunately, we found books 4 and 5 very dull plot wise and the shine had gone off random exploring (oh look, two chimerae, *yawn*)and rinse and repeat kingdom building. Book six, whilst excellent in itself, is not the ending this AP deserved as it is foreshadowed very poorly, has nothing to do with the kingdom building theme of the AP and seems incredibly tacked on. A much better and more logical end to the AP would have been:

** spoiler omitted **

Which would have bookended the AP nicely and is ironically already much better foreshadowed within the AP than the actual ending. Instead what we got was the equivalent of having George R.R. Martin end a Game of Thrones by having Godzilla turn up. A TPK on the final encounter didn't help either.

Given that I'm completely ignoring Brevoy (or my setting's equivalent) other than occasional side references and am running with the Fey theme like mad from Book 1, I couldn't agree with this less myself =) Sound of a Thousand Screams is what sold Kingmaker for me. If it had just been a SoIaF style politicking I never would have touched it.


Lord Fyre wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
Coridan wrote:
Heavy railroading - Legacy of Fire
Oh so unfair to my favourite AP!
I don't know, the transition from Book 2 to Book 3 is a little forced - but the transition from Book 3 to Book 4 is a LOT forced.

Thanks for the warning. One of my players is considering running this in the (somewhat distant) future. I'll let her know ahead of time so she can make necessary adjustments.


Itchy wrote:


Gingerbreadman, I find it funny that you are "enduring" Carrion Crown, yet have the Beast of Lepidstat as your avatar. ;)

-Aaron

Wasn't aware of that. But it's good to know.

I pictured the beast very differently. But whatever, I have chosen my avatar from those that are rarely used, not from what/whom it depicts.


Orthos wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
FallofCamelot wrote:
Coridan wrote:
Heavy railroading - Legacy of Fire
Oh so unfair to my favourite AP!
I don't know, the transition from Book 2 to Book 3 is a little forced - but the transition from Book 3 to Book 4 is a LOT forced.
Thanks for the warning. One of my players is considering running this in the (somewhat distant) future. I'll let her know ahead of time so she can make necessary adjustments.

Spoiler:
Scint?
Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
FallofCamelot wrote:

You will find champoins of all Adventure Paths. Personally I found Kingmaker less than satisfying but it has a very vocal following and I can see why.

The moral is choose the AP that appeals to you and your group. The truth is that they are all good. Some (Second Darkness, Serpent's Skull & Kingmaker) need extra work, that's all.

Which do you want to run?

As I stated before my group isn't heavy on the RP. We constantly joke around about how we're the worst group ever to play the game as clues etc just pass us by. Our game is really a socially event to be honest and it's not taken too seriously. We probably spend half our time telling jokes (we've even got a 'funny cup' that gets passed around as a reward to anyone that makes us laugh).

With all that in mind the easiest thing for us to play is a dungeon crawl with a little bit of RP and not too much prep required.

Sounds like the Shattered Star is the go and I'll buy the first part in the next week or so. We still have a few sessions to go with Curse of the Riven Sky (which is a pretty average module to be honest) so I have time to read up on it and do a bit of prep work.

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