There's a human specific feat (Martial Versatility maybe?) in the ARG that allows a human to apply specific weapon feats to any weapon of that weapon group.
You want an archetype that gets weapon training with any weapon.
Consider mobile fighter.
You get full weapon training as long as you move 5ft. Pretty easy condition to fulfill.
Then be it bows, axes or whatever, you get the bonus.
You won't NEED weapon focus/spec but they are nice to have.
A way around it is to find other ways to up damage.
Play a race with low light or darkvision. Moonlight stalker is equal to gtr weapon focus and spec so long as you have concealment.
(Lesser cloak of displacement ftw) and it has good preqs
I generaly consider the basic fighter class a weapon generalist, as they are skilled in the use of all simple and martial weapons by default and they gain skill in groups of weaopns as the advance in levels as per the core rules. To add to their versatility feat suggestions would include improved unarmed strike, catch off-guard, and throw anything are very good to start with. Next power attack, improved shield bash or shield focus to improve your ac with the shield. For ranged combat the point black shot, rapid shot and distant shot are all good.
Plan to carry an assortmnet of weapons a bow or crossbow, a sword of some sort, a spear/ polearm for the reach effect, a club/mace/ hammer as a blunt weapon, and a couple of daggers as close in weapons/ throwing weapons. You want to have a weapon for percing, slashing and blunt for sure. This assortment will help you have something for each range zone in melee. It will also help overcome some of the DR's that crop up. If you can aford it add silver and cold iron to your listwhen you can. This will The use of other weapons is a personal choice depending on the personality of the fighter.
I have stayed away from anything outside of the core book here just to keep it as easy to use for you and everyone else.
I generaly consider the basic fighter class a weapon generalist,
That is what I wish they were too.
Unfortunately, since their main boosts to damage output (Weapon Training and fighter-exclusive feats) all apply to only one or a group of weapons, fighters are the least generalist of all martial classes save gunslingers. A barbarian's bonus from Rage applies to any weapon she picks up; a paladin can slap a divine bond on anything and smite evil with anything; a ranger can get her favored enemy and terrain bonuses with any weapon; but as soon as the fighter picks up a greataxe instead of a greatsword, her bonuses vanish.
For some reason, Weapon Training and Weapon Specialization were deliberately designed to lock the fighter - which should be the weapon generalist - into being stuck with a single weapon or losing several class features.
There's no archetype that replaces the ability to choose weapon speciization as a feat. Choosing other feats should work well enough balance wise.
Some of the archetypes loose weapon mastery class feature though. Armour master for example though it doesn't fit your concept.
I suggest you look int Cad and take lots of maneuver feats. Some unarmed or improvised weapons feats would also help, plus maybe a monk dip.
Yeah, Thanael mentioned Cad, but specifically look up the Dirty Trick Combat Maneuver. Dudes are a lot easier to fight after you've straight up given them a purple nurple or just go for theee eyes, Boo, go for theee eyes!
Seriously man just follow the advice of Shock G and grab 'em in the biscuits. Or kick them, either way. I'm not here to judge.
Also go into a fightery prestige class early. Student of War for example. (or devoted defender)
Monk of the empty hand is designed around taking away a weapon and beating them with it.
With improvised weapon mastery, and fighter levels to make up some bab, might not be terrible..
If you choose to specialize in, say, armor (Armor Master archetype) your weapon won't matter.
One immediate question - what's "Cad"?
Cad is a fighter Archetype from Ultimate Combat, that adds some rogue-ish utility to the fighter along with some bonuses to Dirty Tricks, Stealing, and Improvised Weapon use.
They're described as:
"In combat, most fighters have some sort of code of honor. Some believe that one should not kick enemies when they are down, or should limit use of other such dirty tricks to the most dire of circumstances. The cad places no such limitations on himself. Battles are for winning, and anything that gives the cad the upper hand against his enemies is a legitimate tactic. No trick is too treacherous if it leads to victory.
As Scythia suggest there are several human fighter only feat that allow you to basically rotate weapon focus, weapon specialization, and the crit feats within a fighter weapon group, as long it still meets the prerequisites. So instead of just greatsword it can been in whatever heavy blade you want. Or in any two hand weapon group as well (greataxe) as long as it is the group you took your fighter weapon group in. While this some what limited, it does give a significant level of versatility over normal fighters.
It's not stackable with Lore Warden though...
Monk of the empty hand is designed around taking away a weapon and beating them with it.
With improvised weapon mastery, and fighter levels to make up some bab, might not be terrible..
+1 (and linkified)
By taking the Quick Learner and Arms Master traits, you will take no penalties with any weapon.
Interesting. Though Arms Master is only available for Faultspawn Tiefling though and Quick learner does not apply on the first attack.
Catch Off Guard or Monk of the Empty hand should allow you to treat any weapon as an improvised weapon dealing basic damage. (say using a polearm like a staff of club)
Improvised Weapon Mastery increases the damage die and crit range of improvised weapons.
Catch Off Guard or Monk of the Empty hand should allow you to treat any weapon as an improvised weapon dealing basic damage. (say using a polearm like a staff of club)Improvised Weapon Mastery increases the damage die and crit range of improvised weapons.
Because the Monk of the Empty Hand treats "all weapons as improvised weapons" you will be able to disarm and attack your opponents with literally anything.
The downside is that MotEH makes the dice for all “weapons as improvised weapons” a measly d6 for base damage. Though, you can Flurry with said improvised weapons.
I’ve always wanted to try this with duel lit torches. Furry of Blows with the torches as improvised weapons and (depending on the GM) potentially lighting your enemies on fire…at first level!
|
A fighter without specializing in any particular weapon is still a guy with full BAB, good armor, and proficiency in every simple and martial weapon. If you're doing combat maneuvers, the weapon specializations don't add much, anyway. If you're going for damage, Power Attack works with any melee weapon, and Deadly Aim works with any ranged.
Specializing in a weapon can get you a few extra bonuses here and there, but there's plenty more for fighters to do.
A fighter without specializing in any particular weapon is still a guy with full BAB, good armor, and proficiency in every simple and martial weapon. If you're doing combat maneuvers, the weapon specializations don't add much, anyway. If you're going for damage, Power Attack works with any melee weapon, and Deadly Aim works with any ranged.
Specializing in a weapon can get you a few extra bonuses here and there, but there's plenty more for fighters to do.
+1
I wouldn't go for the weapon specialization feats without a really good reason. For example, dazzling display or qualifying for the whip chain of feats would be a good one. Just increasing damage and a little to-hit is usually not worth it for me.
If you get it for free (like the zen archer) that's something else, though :-)
|
There are more than enough combat feats for a fighter to get to level 20 without even looking at the Weapon Focus tree. However, you probably will need to choose a general fighting style.
The Two-Weapon Fighting feats work with any weapons you can hold one-handed, but they really prefer one be a light weapon. Power Attack works better with a two-hander, but dual-wielders can use it too. If you want to use a shield, there's several feats that help with that (and you can dovetail it into the TWF tree as well). Ranged weapons are their own set of feats. If you'd like to use a combat maneuver, you can spend a good three or four feats on that as well.
We need to know, firstly and most importantly, why not picking up the weapon focus/specialization line is making you "twitch". Is someone using the min/max, optimization, or DPR buzzwords in an argument as to why you don't need those feats? Are you feeling less effective without them in your feat list?
No one needs ANY feats to play the game. There is not one class out there that is so dependant upon certain things that they cannot be enjoyed while playing the game. That's the reason there are so many feats and archetypes out there. To help you build the character you WANT to play.
If you want a fighter generalist, build one. But, as Roberta says above, the Fighter class is the "least" generalist as printed (even though it's clearly meant to be so).
Design Manager
|
Just throwing my two cents out there, I've built fighters who work pretty efficiently without ever taking the Weapon Focus/Specialization feats.
The Mobile Fighter archetype basically applies weapon training to any weapon he's holding just by taking a 5 foot step.
Switch-hitter fighters can be pretty effective as well taking ranged combat and two-weapon fighting feats, especially if you snag an unarmed combat feat or two so you can supplement your damage by getting extra attacks in while you're in melee. The Brawler fighter is a pretty good archetype for that.
|
By taking the Quick Learner and Arms Master traits, you will take no penalties with any weapon.Interesting. Though Arms Master is only available for Faultspawn Tiefling though and Quick learner does not apply on the first attack.
Adopted trait makes Arms Master trait available to any PC.
Have you thought of asking your gm to make a custom arch type for you to fit your desired play style...instead of shoehorning in something you don't want see if he'll work with you...I do it a lot with my players but it varies gm to gm.
I generaly consider the basic fighter class a weapon generalist,That is what I wish they were too.
Unfortunately, since their main boosts to damage output (Weapon Training and fighter-exclusive feats) all apply to only one or a group of weapons, fighters are the least generalist of all martial classes save gunslingers. A barbarian's bonus from Rage applies to any weapon she picks up; a paladin can slap a divine bond on anything and smite evil with anything; a ranger can get her favored enemy and terrain bonuses with any weapon; but as soon as the fighter picks up a greataxe instead of a greatsword, her bonuses vanish.
For some reason, Weapon Training and Weapon Specialization were deliberately designed to lock the fighter - which should be the weapon generalist - into being stuck with a single weapon or losing several class features.
I will admit that I had not looked at it that way, I looked at it in the way of the thing they do is weapons, and fighting, they dont cast spells, or move through the woods, or any other thing well at the same time. They get extra feats to use only on combat feats, this allows them to build out and expand on the base of their weapon training.
Ugh, why can't I be like, super awesome, with like, every weapon?
It's like, totally unfair and stuff.
You can. You just need to play a barbarian instead.
I have to agree though, I know that when I think of classes that greedy players abuse because they want to do everything by themselves effortlessly at the same time, the first thing that comes to mind is fighter.
|
|
Ugh, why can't I be like, super awesome, with like, every weapon?
It's like, totally unfair and stuff.
You can. You just need to play a barbarian instead.
I have to agree though, I know that when I think of classes that greedy players abuse because they want to do everything by themselves effortlessly at the same time, the first thing that comes to mind is fighter.
Sarcasm.
Sarcasm.Ugh, why can't I be like, super awesome, with like, every weapon?
It's like, totally unfair and stuff.
You can. You just need to play a barbarian instead.
I have to agree though, I know that when I think of classes that greedy players abuse because they want to do everything by themselves effortlessly at the same time, the first thing that comes to mind is fighter.
It's what she does. A lot.
I have never encountered a person using sarcasm before and the only way I can possibly react to this bizarre and unprecedented occurrence is to stop the discussion and just say "You said a sarcastic thing".
Sarcasm! No!! As been stated about a bazillion times on this thread CAD works great for the would improvised piercing table leg. Did I say piercing, sorry slashing. They advance the damage of improvised weapons too. Also, pick up throw anything, CMB feats, and crit focus chain, and beat them to death with a fish!! MotEH works with this class as well.
I have never encountered a person using sarcasm before and the only way I can possibly react to this bizarre and unprecedented occurrence is to stop the discussion and just say "You said a sarcastic thing".
He may not have known, although I suspect he did :) Not trying to be a jerk, but it's pretty much what I expect every time I read one of your posts. And I don't think I'm alone. I'm pleasantly surprised when you don't go that route. It tends to mask the often well thought out comments you make. Too bad really. I prefer it when you make the point without the excessive sarcasm. I think it adds more to the discussion that way. It doesn't bother me too much and I read to see what your saying, but I suspect a lot of people stop reading when it becomes irritating. Sarcasm has a point, but the overuse of it just lessens the effect. Ymmv of course. And I will continue to brave the sea of sarcasm to find the points within. Post on :)
Man I love reading posts with your contributions, Roberta. You're both insightful, brutally honest, and sarcastic enough to walk the line without plunging over.
That being said, Cad and Mobile Fighter do work wonders for fighters to skirt around the focus/specialization chains.
There's a human specific feat (Martial Versatility maybe?) in the ARG that allows a human to apply specific weapon feats to any weapon of that weapon group.
I quite like how this works when applied to Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Two feats and you open up all heavy blades or all monk weapons. Neat.
It's an interesting feat to apply as your fighter retrained feat at 4th, 8th, and 12th. Those are the levels you can pick up other specific weapon specific feats and apply them to a broader horizon. At 16th, you can also take the Mastery version, which applies them to everything in the weapon group. This doesn't solve the problem, but hey, if you make it to 16th...
I currently have a fighter-stalwart defender without weapon spec or anything like that. It's nice to be able to pick up a reach weapon, or switch to swords and shield for more AC as necessary. Still, I have a defensive stance, which a fighter doesn't have.
Ooh, wizard! But goblins no like words?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ooh, wizard! But goblins no like words?
There's nothing that says a Goblin Wizard's spell book has to be in those pesky "words". He could make a magical pop-up book with pictures and symbols as representations of his spells.