Racial Feats & Racial Heritage


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Can a human take Racial Heritage to gain access to non human racial feats in the ARG?

It looks like it should work by rules as written. But additional resources seems to imply that you don't even have access to that section of the ARG unless you are of that race.

I am specifically looking at using Human Heritage (Assimar) to pick up some fun angelic feats.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Per the additional resources, you cannot make use of feats, traits, spells, gear, etc. from ARG unless you are of the specific race.

So no, the Human Heritage feat will not allow you to do such.

Sovereign Court

Yes it lets you take feats, but keep in mind that Aasimar are outsiders, not humanoids.

Sovereign Court

Ya he's right about that ARG specific info. You can take feats and archetypes for the core races though. And again, since Aasimar are outsiders, it's moot anyways.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Didn't Micheal Brock clarify that Tiefling's and Aasimars were considered humanoids for player characters?

Hmm, I can't find it. Maybe I misread something else.

5/5

I believe he clarified that aasimars and tieflings are assumed to be of human heritage for PFS (e.g. no dwarf, elf, grippli, gnome, etc. tieflings).


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

That is fine,

But what I wanted to do with Aasimar aside, I don't really understand why I cannot use racial heritage to get to the feats of a race that is allowed in pfs. Racial heritage says I count has the race for the "purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on."

So could I get wings by going the tengu route? What if I wanted to pick up some halfling exclusive feats?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

You can use the Racial Heritage to pick up other races feats from any earlier book than the ARG. The ARG is explicitly and specifically excluded from being able to use Racial Heritage to gain feats for other races from.

Sovereign Court

Will your build not allow you to be an Aasimar? There is a racial trait for Aasimar where they can count as human in exchange for not speaking Celestial. Aasimar are also the most flexible race as far as stats go when you include the Blood of Angels options. I can't really see how you couldn't do whatever you wanted as an actual Aasimar that you could do as an Aasimar blooded human. All you lose is the feat and skill point per level, but you get more than enough in exchange for those.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I did not have blood of angels at character creation

Sovereign Court

Have you played a mod at level 2 yet? If not, rebuild.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I"m level 5

Why is ARG considered different?

Contributor

Mahtobedis wrote:


Why is ARG considered different?

I doubt it's so much a case that the ARG is considered "different" as it is a demonstration that each feat, trait, what-have-you is considered on a case-by-case basis for its possible impact on play. Note that the Additional Resources document doesn't say that the ARG is out of bounds wholesale, but instead goes through and lists items (or sets of items, anyway) case-by-case.

Me? I'd love for the Multiattack feat in the Bestiary to be legal so my Tengu rogue could go all crazy with his natural weapons--sneak attack once! twice! thrice 'cause watch that beak! But it's out of play. Balance, y'know?

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Christopher Rowe wrote:
Me? I'd love for the Multiattack feat in the Bestiary to be legal so my Tengu rogue could go all crazy with his natural weapons--sneak attack once! twice! thrice 'cause watch that beak! But it's out of play. Balance, y'know?

Your beak and claws(if you have them) are all primary weapons, so you don't need multi attack to reign feathery furry on your foes. The claw/claw/beak routine has no inherent penalties.

Unless you mean weapon attacks then beaking without the -5?

Contributor

BigNorseWolf wrote:


Unless you mean weapon attacks then beaking without the -5?

Yep, that's what I've been doing. Weapon, claw, beak, with the attendant penalties.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

But not being able to use Racial Heritage to gain access to the feats of other races really seems to remove much of the point in taking it. It seems very odd that the feat cannot be used in conjunction with the book it was presented in.

Contributor

Mahtobedis wrote:
But not being able to use Racial Heritage to gain access to the feats of other races really seems to remove much of the point in taking it. It seems very odd that the feat cannot be used in conjunction with the book it was presented in.

Well, remember that there are other sources of racial feats, such as the various ...of Golarion books.

Also, the books and their contents aren't necessarily written with the needs/peculiarities/characteristics of the organized play campaign in mind (thus creating the need for the Additional Resources document in the first place). We PFS players aren't the only Pathfinder players, after all, though we're probably the smartest and are certainly the prettiest. ;) The feat is no doubt being used in home and home-brew campaigns the way you're talking about all over this fine planet.

Dark Archive

Racial Heritage is a core rulebook feat that was merely reprinted in the ARG, and for the purposes of PFS still works perfectly fine with the large number of older racial feats even if all books and sources after and including the ARG will be off limits for it.

Grand Lodge

You can claw, claw, bite all at full BAB... Tengu rogues adding in a weapon are doing it wrong IMHO.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Christopher Rowe wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


Unless you mean weapon attacks then beaking without the -5?
Yep, that's what I've been doing. Weapon, claw, beak, with the attendant penalties.

Drop the weapon and hit them harder! In pathfinder multiple different attacks can be primary. Claws and beak (bite) are both primary.


Mahtobedis wrote:
But not being able to use Racial Heritage to gain access to the feats of other races really seems to remove much of the point in taking it. It seems very odd that the feat cannot be used in conjunction with the book it was presented in.

To be fair, in a thread about oracle mysteries Mike has stated that looking back at it, he would have made options (such as oracle mysteries) in Blood of Angels/Fiends to be usable only for members on that race. The ARG was just the first book to have more limiting rules.

I would actually expect upcoming racial books (such as Blood of the Night for Damphyrs) to follow the ARG restrictions and be limited to members of that race.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

One thing to keep in mind, that other than the core races, and the 3 new added races (aasimar, tiefling and tengu) most of the races that have stuff in the ARG opened up, are for boon only races.

And to keep those abilities tied to boons, Mike had to make the ARG blanketly open only to the races the racial traits, race traits, feats, spells, et. al. they apply to.

There are plenty of other books that the heritage feat can apply to, that taking the feat is not useless.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

But doesn't racial heritage that you count as the race for "purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on."

I'm not getting why the and so on also doesn't apply to additional resources and ARG.

yes you need to be that race to access to that races toys but racial heritage seems to make you of that race.

I just don't understand how this works, or more accurately doesn't work.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Mahtobedis wrote:

But doesn't racial heritage that you count as the race for "purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on."

I'm not getting why the and so on also doesn't apply to additional resources and ARG.

yes you need to be that race to access to that races toys but racial heritage seems to make you of that race.

I just don't understand how this works, or more accurately doesn't work.

It's pretty simple. People wanted Chronicle sheets to have meaning and significance. One of the ways we can do this is restrict items in books and not just make everything legal across the board. We can then offer those restricted items on Chronicle sheets when they appear in a scenario. As mentioned above, all future books that are similar, such as Blood of Night, will be restricted in a similar type of situation. Just because it doesn't work like you like doesn't mean it is broken as you allude to here. It is actually working fairly well and we have received mostly positive feedback with this change.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thank you for the response Michael.

It less that it doesn't work the way I like, and more that I don't really understand why the feat doesn't work with newer resources the way said feat and additional resources are worded.

I do understand that you want to make chronicle sheets special. Up to know I have been super excited about all of the decisions you've made regarding them. Especially the season 4 chronicles.

I am disappointed that racial heritage does not allow people to have a human who manifests fox tails, or tengu wings or other such things.

At this point I'm now trying to understand the mechanics of how it works/doesn't work, although I suppose that isn't something I really need to know.

Who knows maybe I'll see racial feats showing up on future chronicles? :p

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

For me, I would have taken it instead of the Trait Adopted to get around a failed ruling about "social" racial traits not being able to be taken with Adopted. My Tengu then would have been able to get Etymologist (Gnome Social? Trait) with the cost of a full feat instead of a place holder trait.

Still hold out hope that the Adopted trait can be fixed.

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