Aerial Assault needs a boost. Period.


Mythic Adventures Playtest General Discussion


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I remember reading Runelord Karzoug's stat block from the first adventure path ... if memory serves me correctly, his preparations included flying to a height of FORTY feet while waiting for the PCs. This is just an example to set up my points ...

So let's take a 20th level character with 10 mythic tiers [Remember - the champion Path is NOT intended solely for monks, thus aerial assault MUST be viable for non-monks]. Max ranks in acrobatics = 20 + 3 [class skill] + 10 [pretty damn high] ability modifier = 33. Throw in some buffing spells and we'll pump that up to 40. Circumstance bonus = 100. Total bonus = 140.

Now according to the Acrobatics skill description, a character can high jump 4 feet at a DC of 16 and an additional foot per +4 on the DC. So to reach the above character at 40 feet, the DC = 16 + 36x4 = 16 + 144 = 160. So the above character [non-monk] with maxed out ranks, a stat of 30, and buff spells can only reach 40 feet on a natural roll of 20.

And again ... this is a 20th level/10th mythic tier character. It's EASY AS PIE for flying characters to ascend to 36+ feet. So essentially, what becomes the point of the ability below? A character will rarely be able to "hit" an opponent with aerial assault ... at any level.

And the solution should NOT involve a feat. Very FEW, if any, abilities should ever REQUIRE a feat to prove successful.

Thanks for any feedback!

____________________

Aerial Assault (Su): When making a charge attack
you may expend one use of mythic power. If you do,
include a single Acrobatics check made to jump with a
circumstance bonus equal to your champion tier × 10. You
take no falling damage for height gained as part of this
leap. In addition, you may substitute your melee attack
for a single grapple check as part of this aerial charge.
Any creature you successfully grapple is brought to the
ground with you at the end of your jump. This creature
takes falling damage for half the height gained in your
jump. Alternatively, you may use this leap to empower
your charge. Calculate the falling damage appropriate for
your descent and add this to the damage caused by your
charge attack, if successful.


I agree that the mechanics don't lend themselves well to actually being able to pull off any truly tricky maneuvers against flying creatures who fly even reasonably high, (honestly an addendum in the power along the lines of "the DC for high jumps is halved for this leap" would give it the 'oomph'). Still though, how high are you going to get on your charge to begin with when you're still restricted by max distance for a round?

I do think it a fallacy to assume that every power must be equally viable for all classes. Some will naturally benefit some classes more, and certainly some will benefit single classes almost to an exclusion of others. You simply wouldn't pick that ability. Seeing as they have said each path will be quite a bit fuller come release this poses no problem i can see.


10 isn't that high an ability boost.

+3 from character creation
+2.5 from levels
+5 from mythic
+3 from belt.
+2.5 from manual.

It's only 2/3rds of what you could pretty easily get at that point. If you max the ability out and toss in a point of mythic power to boost your roll, there's a good chance you'll reach him.

That you *need* to do so in order to succeed does imply there's a problem though yeah.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that an ability that gives you super jumps should work if you don't already have super jumps.
If you need two completely different super jump powers and superhuman speed just to reach a high thing, your powers aren't just below mythic, they're below acceptable.

Aerial assault is a prime example of an ability that makes people say "Whoa!" when they read it, but doesn't really do anything impressive of its own accord.

Scarab Sages

Two points:

- With the above example your getting 3d6 to 4d6 added to your damage when used on a non-flying target.

- It is impossible to comment on final balance based on abilities not included in the playtest.


@Derron42:

Jumping 40 feet high (meaning your lowest extremities are 40ft above the ground) is not required to grab someone that is 40ft above you. You reach exceeds the height that your feet reach.

James Jacobs (I think) was it that mentioned that a medium character standing on the ground can reach to a height of 8ft. That means your Aerial Assault need only make a check to reach around 32ft of height (corresponding to a DC of 128) which your example hero handily achieves.


Additionally... there are items that make this easier: see Rod of Balance in Ultimate Equipment. Not only does it add a +10 competence bonus it also halves the DC of jump checks.


So, you roll a jump check with +100 bonus and deal falling damage to your target rather than you? Worst case scenario, that's at least +2d6 damage on your attack and can easily be +3d6.

And you'll get to drag monsters from the sky periodically, which is totally sweet, but not really the main appeal to me at 10th tier.

Now, what I would worry about is how it interacts with needing a running start on jumps. That might cause some problems in actual fights.

Derron42 wrote:
So let's take a 20th level character with 10 mythic tiers [Remember - the champion Path is NOT intended solely for monks, thus aerial assault MUST be viable for non-monks].

I know you're just trying to head off a bunch of people saying how it's great for the monk, but it's really okay if an ability is only good for a subset of characters.

So, your monk might want to take Aerial Assault and your fighter take Armor Master. Neither's likely to want Beast Fury. There's no problem with that at all.

Cheers!
Landon

Liberty's Edge

The modifier is not the problem here, it is the fact that once you hit 5th level flying is a really easy condition to get on the party. Even the fighter can chug a fly potion when needed. The extra damage on grappling and charging is interesting though.

Also, this ability involves way too much calculation (very annoying to calculate the exact number of feet when the game is played in 5' squares). Why not just say the mythic character can jump 10' per mythic tier and skip the roll and calculations.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have players that love it. But it's because of their play style. Boots of Leaping & Striding. Rings of Climbing, any spider climbing gear. They will use round of parkour style free running up walls to set up attacks using Aerial assult. I've got a Lance Fighter that's drooling over this.


Keep in mind, most things that add to Acrobatics checks are Circumstance or Competence bonus'. So make sure to double check everything so that it stacks. For instance, Feat of Dexterity gives a +20 Competence Bonus to one Dexterity check, while Aerial Assault adds a Tier * 10 Competence bonus, so they don't stack.

Scarab Sages

The_Hanged_Man wrote:
The modifier is not the problem here, it is the fact that once you hit 5th level flying is a really easy condition to get on the party. Even the fighter can chug a fly potion when needed. The extra damage on grappling and charging is interesting though.

The difference between liking and disliking the power seems to be how the player intends to use it.

As a solution for flying opponents you are correct, it is not a very good power.

Combined with mythic vital strike, the damage from a charge attack can be substanial. I'm already picturing Aerial Assault + Mythic Vital Strike + Greater Vital Strike + Lockjaw on a druid wildshaped to triceratops.

(Yes, I relize mythic vital strike won't double the falling damge)


I think the problem is when it's good and does cool things, that's when it feels the least like an aerial assault.

It screams "charging in the air! Taking down dragons!" but in fact it's just a twist on charge attacks with an extra option to take down low flying foes.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Where as my players using as Wuxia man canon.


Maybe it should add +10 feet on vertical jump height per mythic tier.


Sauce987654321 wrote:
Maybe it should add +10 feet on vertical jump height per mythic tier.

That's how it is currently. You gain a bonus on your jump of your Mythic Tier * 10. So a 5th Tier character gets a +50 on his jump.


Tels wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Maybe it should add +10 feet on vertical jump height per mythic tier.
That's how it is currently. You gain a bonus on your jump of your Mythic Tier * 10. So a 5th Tier character gets a +50 on his jump.

mine adds +50 extra feet on vertical jumps at 5th tier (not acrobatics). That adds +12 extra feet to vertical jumps from that +50 bonus to acrobatics.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Mythic Adventures Playtest / General Discussion / Aerial Assault needs a boost. Period. All Messageboards
Recent threads in General Discussion