Crafting - When and How Much?


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

So, looking at the FAQ, some characters are allowed to use craft skills (most often Craft (alchemy)) to craft items using the rules for the Craft skill.

But I can't find any rules as to when you are allowed to craft. I've been speaking to the groups I play with, and have received widely different responses. One says I need to craft during the scenario itself (which will almost always mean never) and others who say crafting is done between scenarios.

If it's during a scenario, then the ability to craft is essentially a non-ability. End of discussion.

If I can craft between scenarios, how much can I craft? How many check may I make? If an item requires more than one check to complete (such as many poisons), so I make all the checks at once, or must I spread out those checks across several scenarios?

For example, if I have a +16 Craft(alchemy), I can take 10 to guarantee a result of 26. With this check, I can craft 676 sp worth of progress towards a dose of dragon bile (worth 15,000 sp). At this rate I'll need to make 23 separate checks to complete the dose (representing 23 weeks of work).

When may I make checks to make progress toward crafting a dose of dragon bile, and whether it is during or between scenarios, how many checks may I make?

I'm hoping to receive some kind of official response, or a direction to an already existing official answer I'm hoping I just missed.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northeast aka Thamius

The only class allowed to craft is the Alchemist, and only to use Craft (alchemy) to make items for their personal use at half price. These cannot be sold to NPCs or other PCs, although they can be loaned out to PCs so long as unused items are returned at the conclusion of the scenario.

This crafting is done between scenarios so time requirements are meaningless, but you do have to pay the gold for the materials. If you can achieve success by taking 10 then you're all set.

This crafting is in addition to your Day Job roll, which allows you to make a little gold on the side between scenarios.

5/5 5/55/55/5

How do poisons work in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?

Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of “always available poisons” (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a chronicle sheet. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons from the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook:

Giant wasp poison
Large scorpion venom
Medium spider venom
Shadow essence
Small centipede poison

Paladins, per their code of conduct, may not use poisons, but they don’t necessarily view the use of poisons as an evil to be opposed—it’s simply something their code prohibits them from doing themselves.

Alchemists and rogues with the poisoner archetype and the Master Poisoner ability can use Craft (alchemy) to produce poisons (see "How can alchemists craft in Pathfinder Society Organized Play?").

Linky

I'm pretty sure that means that you can't craft poisons not on the list either, so you can't craft your way to dragonbile.

What effectively happens is that you buy the items at 1/3 cost in between scenarios or during the scenario if you know you have a lot of time (ie, if you find yourself Going to the Den of the ravening werewolves, you might start cranking out some silver weapon blanche)

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

Daniel Simons wrote:

The only class allowed to craft is the Alchemist, and only to use Craft (alchemy) to make items for their personal use at half price. These cannot be sold to NPCs or other PCs, although they can be loaned out to PCs so long as unused items are returned at the conclusion of the scenario.

This crafting is done between scenarios so time requirements are meaningless, but you do have to pay the gold for the materials. If you can achieve success by taking 10 then you're all set.

This crafting is in addition to your Day Job roll, which allows you to make a little gold on the side between scenarios.

Other than it actually being 1/3 price, is it legitimate to consider this as official, or as table variation?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The thread topic does bring up a point, aside from alchemy, that I think is of interest.

Crafting. It's believable that many characters should be able to do it. So why can't they? Especially since Craft skill checks do appear in scenarios from time to time?

For me it boils down to the inability to answer the question: what's a skill point worth in gp? 200? 500? Seems like something in there should be the answer. 1 skill point per level, so should be able to craft 200-500gp or so worth of items per level. For all of first level, can craft say 400gp. 8 1st level potions? One masterwork weapon? for all of 2nd, 800gp. all of 5th level, 2000gp. Finally get a ring of protection, or weapon +1. Something like that. Or allow/force people to pay half and then add the skill limit, so 4000gp at 5th, but pay 2000gp to get your stuff (armor +2?)

Yeah, yeah, it's another thing to keep track of, to make sure nobody's abusing. But it makes sense, and I think it'd add something to the game, and encourage people to take craft skills, and with some reasonable limits wouldn't be over-powered, so...

hmm... to make it easy to calculate, maybe just say 125gp per XP? and use the pay half, so pay 125gp and get to add craft for another 125gp, so 250gp per XP, or 375/750gp per level, total stuff you can craft.

And to be clear, cumulative. So 750gp at 1st, but pay half. 1500gp at 2nd but pay half, or if delayed, 2250gp total. Then 2250 at 3rd, or 4500gp total allowance, but again, pay 2250 for the privilege. Making sense?

Edit: I should clarify, I was assuming if you want to be a crafter, you pop a skill point per level into it. If you just stick with a first level point, I'd say you flatline on what you can make per level, so 750gp total, pay half, for all levels.

Also, I didn't consider class skills, so maybe this is a per level skill point thing, using 750gp per skill point, pay half, per level. So if a class skill, and you get bonus from INT to craft, you could be looking at +7 perhaps at first level, which would give you an allowance of 5250gp, pay half, at first level. And cumulative per level, by my above reasoning. So at 3rd, continuing to put a point per level, you could be up to 18000gp, pay half, or a 9000gp bonus... hmm, problematic perhaps.

Maybe instead of 375gp per skill point, it should be 200gp or even 150gp when looking at crafting...


Dust Raven wrote:
Daniel Simons wrote:

The only class allowed to craft is the Alchemist, and only to use Craft (alchemy) to make items for their personal use at half price. These cannot be sold to NPCs or other PCs, although they can be loaned out to PCs so long as unused items are returned at the conclusion of the scenario.

This crafting is done between scenarios so time requirements are meaningless, but you do have to pay the gold for the materials. If you can achieve success by taking 10 then you're all set.

This crafting is in addition to your Day Job roll, which allows you to make a little gold on the side between scenarios.

Other than it actually being 1/3 price, is it legitimate to consider this as official, or as table variation?

Daniel is correct. Alchemists can use Craft (alchemy) to make alchemical items only. Standard crafting rules apply, including taking 10 on the check. Caveat: it needs to be done in front of a GM, so usually it is done before or after a scenario.

Official source is the FAQ to the guide

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Daniel was only partially correct.
1) Alchemists can craft alchemical items as CRobledo linked.
2) Alchemists and 3rd level Rogue (Poisoner) can craft poisons on their always available list as BNW linked.
3) You craft for 1/3 the cost, not 1/2 as Dust Raven mentioned.
4)Rangerjeff, that would be total house ruling, which has no place in PFS, sorry.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

You guys are forgetting about Gunslingers and Ammo.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Nope, they don't make it, they buy it for the price they'd make it. (Special PFS rules)

Additional Resources wrote:

The following two feats function differently in Pathfinder Society Organized Play than they do in regular games:

Gunsmithing does not grant the ability to craft firearms, ammunition, or black powder. Rather, it allows the purchase of bullets, pellets, black powder, and alchemical cartridges (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) at the listed reduced price, but does not grant a discount on the purchase of any firearm. Resold items gained through this feat are worth half the actual cost paid, not half the regular market value for the item. No PC can purchase a gun without this feat, even if they possess the Amateur Gunslinger or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feats.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

I wonder why the distinction? In the end it ends up being the same thing...reduced price.


Dragnmoon wrote:
I wonder why the distinction? In the end it ends up being the same thing...reduced price.

No rolling necessary, so no investment past 1 rank required.


Eric Clingenpeel wrote:


4)Rangerjeff, that would be total house ruling, which has no place in PFS, sorry.

I'm suggesting that it could be a part of PFS, because limited crafting would add flavor to many classes, make class skills a better investment, and enable scenario designers to require craft checks with a more reasonable expectation that somebody might actually have the craft in question.

But I also understand that PFS is 5 years old, and it's not really possible to make any major changes at this point. So I'm not hoping crafting will someday be possible in PFS, I'm just wishing it could be.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

To clarify, I'm aware of how to craft, what to craft, the cost of crafting and the skill rolls involved in crafting and how a GM must witness those rolls (even if taking 10).

The question remains... when do these rolls takes place, is there any time used up, and how many such rolls am I allowed to make at those times I'm allowed to make them?

In short, as a specific example, if I can achieve a result of 26+ by taking 10 on Craft (alchemy), do I essentially buy dragon bile at 1/3 the listed price?

There does not appear to be an official ruling, and I have local GMs telling me different things and I'd rather have the cost of equipment be left up to table variation.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

There is no reason you cannot take 10 by the rules. There is also no time limitations between scenarios. So, if you choose you could make a hundred doses of whatever poison is always available to you (assuming you're an alchemist or rogue with master poisoner class ability).

You can find the time it takes to make an alchemical item easy enough. If you have time in game to make something, you could make it then. Otherwise I'd be assumed that you do it between scenarios.

Do a search, I know that Mike has posted about it on here somewhere.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Do a search, I know that Mike has posted about it on here somewhere.

I'm reasonably certain he has, but I can't find it. Searching only turns up this same and similar questions being asked, and more or less overlooked by the community as a whole. Poisons, and crafting of any kind in PFS, seems to be of little if any interest.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Mike chimes in about using Crafters Fortune to craft Alchemical items between scenarios.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

Meh. Doesn't specifically answer any of my questions. It implies crafting can be done between scenarios, which implies an answer to one, but not the others. How many checks may I make to craft between scenarios, and how many different items may I craft between scenarios. Thank you for the link though, as it is helpful if not complete.

I'm assuming it's as many as I want to/as many as necessary to craft as many items as I can afford the materials for. But I've seen no official answer, and I'd rather not assume and leave it to table variation.


Dust Raven wrote:

Meh. Doesn't specifically answer any of my questions. It implies crafting can be done between scenarios, which implies an answer to one, but not the others. How many checks may I make to craft between scenarios, and how many different items may I craft between scenarios. Thank you for the link though, as it is helpful if not complete.

I'm assuming it's as many as I want to/as many as necessary to craft as many items as I can afford the materials for. But I've seen no official answer, and I'd rather not assume and leave it to table variation.

Mike's comment establishes beyond a shadow of a doubt that items can be crafted between scenarios. Prior comments demonstrate that there is an essentially infinite amount of time between scenarios. Why would there be a finite limit on how much of it you could spend crafting? If you have the money, make the stuff. If a GM gives you a hard time for some idiot reason, point out to them what I've just pointed out to you.

Official clarifications are for points that need clarification. This one is pretty straightforward.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Dust Raven wrote:

Meh. Doesn't specifically answer any of my questions. It implies crafting can be done between scenarios, which implies an answer to one, but not the others. How many checks may I make to craft between scenarios, and how many different items may I craft between scenarios. Thank you for the link though, as it is helpful if not complete.

I'm assuming it's as many as I want to/as many as necessary to craft as many items as I can afford the materials for. But I've seen no official answer, and I'd rather not assume and leave it to table variation.

Mike's comment establishes beyond a shadow of a doubt that items can be crafted between scenarios. Prior comments demonstrate that there is an essentially infinite amount of time between scenarios. Why would there be a finite limit on how much of it you could spend crafting? If you have the money, make the stuff. If a GM gives you a hard time for some idiot reason, point out to them what I've just pointed out to you.

Official clarifications are for points that need clarification. This one is pretty straightforward.

Thanks for answering Patrick. My movie just ended and you beat me to the punch.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Colorado Springs aka Dust Raven

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Official clarifications are for points that need clarification. This one is pretty straightforward.

I've looked, and it's remained unclear to me. I've only been playing since July and I'm still learning. All I know is what others have told me, and different people have told me different things. All I've asked for is clarification, or where I may find it.

Michael Brock wrote:
Thanks for answering Patrick. My movie just ended and you beat me to the punch.

This seems pretty clear to me. Thank you.

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