Irori's Champion: A build for inclusion in the guide to the builds thread. (Hopefully)


Advice

101 to 135 of 135 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

DeathlessOne wrote:

Since someone else bumped the thread ...

I searched and saw no mention of this feat Ki Channel

Ki Channel wrote:

Prerequisite(s): Channel positive energy class feature, worshiper of a god of self-perfection or inner mastery.

Benefit(s): When you channel positive energy to heal living creatures, any creature that could be healed by the channeled energy can choose to regain ki from it instead. Affected creatures regain a number of ki points equal to the number of dice healed by the channel. A creature regaining ki in such a way must either regain ki or be healed by the channel (it cannot gain both).

I'm sure someone will find this useful, especially in this thread.

I made a build with this and told him about it in a PM, so he knows.

My Build:

Paladin 12/Monk 4/Champion of Irori 4

Effective Monk level for Unarmed strike:
4 (Monk) + 8 (Monastic Legacy) + 4 (Champion of Irori) + 5 (Monk Robes = 21 level monk i.e. full unarmed strike damage

Effective level for Paladin Smite:
12 (Paladin) + 4 (Champion of Irori) + 4 (Bracers of the Avenging Knight) = 20 level Paladin.

So in terms of damage, it's not half bad, especially since your smite is now more versatile. That said, I'm starting to prefer 2 less levels of Champion of Irori (because let's face it, the most important stuff is in those 2 levels). At most, you lose 2 levels of monk damage, but going from 2d10 to 2d8 isn't all that hot unless your spamming enlargement abilities anyway. By going to Paladin 14 though you get 4th level spells and a new aura.

That said, it's important to NOTgo Hospitaler, as Ki Channel gives you ludicrous Ki points which you can then funnel back into Lay on Hands, or Better, Smite attempts. This is where the true damage lies. The Channel pool for Hospitaler is unfortunately weaker, thus giving you less points.


you can always go for a phylactery of good-whateverit'scalled

the thing is, in the end it is overkill.

i was trying a year or so ago a build for fun, and at like lvl 12 i had 38ki points, an extra 3 smites, and something like 10 loh.

so, the question is: would i EVER need to spend 38 ki? that is up to 41 smites.

even in tough scenarios, with something like 6 tough combats/day:

surprise round smite, 1st round 1ki for extra attack, 2nd round switch smite, 3rd round 1ki for extra attack, 4th round smite again, etc

end of combat, put phylactery on, replenish pool, use loh (cause i'm cheap) or wand if i'm out of it, move on in less than a minute time.

the thing gets even more ridiculous at late levels with smite whirlwind and smite cleaves and etc shenanigans of CoI. you literally have not enough rounds to use your ki.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:

Your guide is not worthy. Mainly because of the fact that you wrote it simply for one offside race. That's not even an open race for Pathfinder Society play.

A guide to a class needs to be written for all of the common races, but especially Humans. Writing it solely for one race because of it's munchkin advantages is simply lazy.

If you're not going to do broad racial coverage, then you should at least be writing your guide for Humans, with some notes given to other races.

A couple of things:

1. This is a build, as in a specific set of criteria coming together to make a character. It is showing the power of the Champion of Irori with the best combination possible.

2. I did make a guide, listing 16 different races. Its here.

Also "your guide is not worthy" I am trying to decide whether to be amused or annoyed at the undeserved trolling. A bit of both, I think.

prototype00


Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. I was wondering the other day about Paladins of Irori. ISTR reading somewhere that being neutral wrt good and evil, Irori doesn't much care about the good end of that spectrum. I don't remember whether I read it or just inferred it, but I came away from that with the impression that Irori does not support paladins. Also, I see no mention of paladins in Irori's entry in Inner Sea Gods or Faiths of Balance or Champions of Balance. OTOH I seem to remember a thread on the messageboards somewhere which asserted that Irori does support paladins. Besides, it would seem odd, at least, for a character to use "paladin of somebody else" to meet the paladinish requirements to become a champion of Irori. So what's the real skinny? Reference, please. "Of course Irori supports paladins" isn't much help. :-)

Just reference Paths of Prestige Under Champion of Irori. It specifically talks about a subset of Irori adherents that "focus on embodying and promulgating the virtues of hard work, discipline, and devotion to the cause of justice, truth, and he pursuit of perfection."

No need to refer to a random thread on the board, the answer is in the Prestige class description.

prototype00


shroudb wrote:

you can always go for a phylactery of good-whateverit'scalled

the thing is, in the end it is overkill.

i was trying a year or so ago a build for fun, and at like lvl 12 i had 38ki points, an extra 3 smites, and something like 10 loh.

so, the question is: would i EVER need to spend 38 ki? that is up to 41 smites.

even in tough scenarios, with something like 6 tough combats/day:

surprise round smite, 1st round 1ki for extra attack, 2nd round switch smite, 3rd round 1ki for extra attack, 4th round smite again, etc

end of combat, put phylactery on, replenish pool, use loh (cause i'm cheap) or wand if i'm out of it, move on in less than a minute time.

the thing gets even more ridiculous at late levels with smite whirlwind and smite cleaves and etc shenanigans of CoI. you literally have not enough rounds to use your ki.

Since you can use Ki to replenish your Lay on Hands, let me introduce you to a nice feat called Radiant Charge.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
prototype00 wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. I was wondering the other day about Paladins of Irori. ISTR reading somewhere that being neutral wrt good and evil, Irori doesn't much care about the good end of that spectrum. I don't remember whether I read it or just inferred it, but I came away from that with the impression that Irori does not support paladins. Also, I see no mention of paladins in Irori's entry in Inner Sea Gods or Faiths of Balance or Champions of Balance. OTOH I seem to remember a thread on the messageboards somewhere which asserted that Irori does support paladins. Besides, it would seem odd, at least, for a character to use "paladin of somebody else" to meet the paladinish requirements to become a champion of Irori. So what's the real skinny? Reference, please. "Of course Irori supports paladins" isn't much help. :-)

Just reference Paths of Prestige Under Champion of Irori. It specifically talks about a subset of Irori adherents that "focus on embodying and promulgating the virtues of hard work, discipline, and devotion to the cause of justice, truth, and he pursuit of perfection."

No need to refer to a random thread on the board, the answer is in the Prestige class description.

prototype00

Hm. Nothing in that necessarily says "paladin" to me.

Personally, while I recognize that RAW Paladins (and other classes) don't necessarily draw their magic from a god, I think all divine spell casters should be required to do so, so long as there's a specific distinction between arcane magic and divine magic. So they would all have to follow at least one god. In a polytheistic society I could see people following more than one god, at least as long as the gods concerned are mutually compatible. A cleric of both Iomedae and Zon-Kuthon would be right out, but a cleric of Iomedae and Sarenrae would work. I don't think I'd want to GM that — too complicated— but I could see it in theory. In practice I'm happy that most people on Golarion follow one god in particular, or none, and may in either case acknowledge the existence of all gods, or none (as in the case of Rhahadoum).


prototype00 wrote:

...

Also "your guide is not worthy" I am trying to decide whether to be amused or annoyed at the undeserved trolling. A bit of both, I think.

Hear, hear. A very measured response to an unkind and unhelpful comment. I admire your patience and your absolutely crazy, wonderful ideas and input on the Champion of Irori.


Ed Reppert wrote:
prototype00 wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. I was wondering the other day about Paladins of Irori. ISTR reading somewhere that being neutral wrt good and evil, Irori doesn't much care about the good end of that spectrum. I don't remember whether I read it or just inferred it, but I came away from that with the impression that Irori does not support paladins. Also, I see no mention of paladins in Irori's entry in Inner Sea Gods or Faiths of Balance or Champions of Balance. OTOH I seem to remember a thread on the messageboards somewhere which asserted that Irori does support paladins. Besides, it would seem odd, at least, for a character to use "paladin of somebody else" to meet the paladinish requirements to become a champion of Irori. So what's the real skinny? Reference, please. "Of course Irori supports paladins" isn't much help. :-)

Just reference Paths of Prestige Under Champion of Irori. It specifically talks about a subset of Irori adherents that "focus on embodying and promulgating the virtues of hard work, discipline, and devotion to the cause of justice, truth, and he pursuit of perfection."

No need to refer to a random thread on the board, the answer is in the Prestige class description.

prototype00

Hm. Nothing in that necessarily says "paladin" to me.

... Not the Justice or Truth part? There are entire paladin concepts that revolve around one or the other.

But hey, who am I to say what you think a paladin should or should not do.

I just know by the book:

1. Irori's alignment does not bar paladins.
2. There is a prestige class that says that his paladins join.

And thus far, if you will excuse my bluntness, the only argument you have been able to provide is board hearsay.

Seriously, please drink the water, horse.

prototype00


Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. I was wondering the other day about Paladins of Irori. ISTR reading somewhere that being neutral wrt good and evil, Irori doesn't much care about the good end of that spectrum. I don't remember whether I read it or just inferred it, but I came away from that with the impression that Irori does not support paladins. Also, I see no mention of paladins in Irori's entry in Inner Sea Gods or Faiths of Balance or Champions of Balance. OTOH I seem to remember a thread on the messageboards somewhere which asserted that Irori does support paladins. Besides, it would seem odd, at least, for a character to use "paladin of somebody else" to meet the paladinish requirements to become a champion of Irori. So what's the real skinny? Reference, please. "Of course Irori supports paladins" isn't much help. :-)

It's probably already been mentioned, but have you read the fluff for the Iroran Paladin Archetype from Inner Sea Combat?(Not the Champion of Irori PrC from Paths of Prestige.)

"Iroran paladins meditate on self-perfection and train relentlessly, knowing that their example can inspire others to excel. Irori offers no universal paladin code­, each paladin in his service creates his own code as part of his spiritual journey, seeing the adherence to such a self-formulated creed as one of the many tests one must face to reach perfection."

Remember that Irori is the god of Self-Perfection. He teaches that there is no singular path to enlightenment and that each person must find their own way to master themselves. Why would the Master of Masters dictate a set Code of Honor for his Paladins?


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Suma3da wrote:

It's probably already been mentioned, but have you read the fluff for the Iroran Paladin Archetype from Inner Sea Combat?(Not the Champion of Irori PrC from Paths of Prestige.)

"Iroran paladins meditate on self-perfection and train relentlessly, knowing that their example can inspire others to excel. Irori offers no universal paladin code­, each paladin in his service creates his own code as part of his spiritual journey, seeing the adherence to such a self-formulated creed as one of the many tests one must face to reach perfection."

Remember that Irori is the god of Self-Perfection. He teaches that there is no singular path to enlightenment and that each person must find their own way to master themselves. Why would the Master of Masters dictate a set Code of Honor for his Paladins?

Good question. And yeah, I probably have read it, and then forgot it was there. I'll take another look.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Okay, so I took another look, and another. I just the other day started trying to build this character in HeroLab. I got to my first level of Paladin, and chose the "Iroran Paladin" archetype. Got to the first level of Champion of Irori, and found out that it's not legal, because an Iroran Paladin replaces "smite evil" with something else... personal trial. So I guess the character can't choose any paladin archetype that loses smite evil. Since Prototype00 didn't mention any archetypes except Theologian, for the Cleric dip, I suppose that was my bad. But if Iroran Paladin loses smite evil, why is that ability a prerequisite for champion of irori? This doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing?


That you can be a paladin without choosing the Iroran Paladin archetype?

prototype00


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
prototype00 wrote:

That you can be a paladin without choosing the Iroran Paladin archetype?

prototype00

No, I didn't miss that. It does seems a strange way to go.


Are there any change in this build when using Unchained Monk instead of the Core Monk class?
Does the Unchained synergies better for a CoI?


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I was wondering that myself, but I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.


+1 bab, -3 will and the new flurry (giving an additional effective +2 to attack compared to before) if you get the bare minimum for qualifying.

If you get monk to 5 you gain a ki power (barkskin?) And the style strike of your choice which adds a bit of versatility


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I did notice that the core monk gets ki pool at level 4 and still mind at level 3, while the unchained monk gets ki pool at level 3 and still mind at 4. Since still mind is a prerequisite for CoI, the unchained monk build would perforce have a ki pool a bit earlier than the core monk build, and would at CoI level 2 end up with two ki pools. I'm not sure how to manage that - two separate pools or one combined pool? Also not sure how it affects the build in the end in terms of ki usage and availability.


Ed Reppert wrote:
I did notice that the core monk gets ki pool at level 4 and still mind at level 3, while the unchained monk gets ki pool at level 3 and still mind at 4. Since still mind is a prerequisite for CoI, the unchained monk build would perforce have a ki pool a bit earlier than the core monk build, and would at CoI level 2 end up with two ki pools. I'm not sure how to manage that - two separate pools or one combined pool? Also not sure how it affects the build in the end in terms of ki usage and availability.

i missed the level swap.

as for stacking:
from CoI entry:

Quote:
At 2nd level, a champion of the enlightened gains a ki pool equal to 1/2 his class level + his Wisdom modifier; this functions like the monk ability of the same name, and levels in this class stack with levels in other classes that grant a ki pool.

so 1 pool you just keep progressing it.

overall it means a slighter later entry, but now you also have a ki power to pick up. something like barksin maybe for extra ac or sudden speed for mobility or such


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
shroudb wrote:

as for stacking:

from CoI entry:
Quote:
At 2nd level, a champion of the enlightened gains a ki pool equal to 1/2 his class level + his Wisdom modifier; this functions like the monk ability of the same name, and levels in this class stack with levels in other classes that grant a ki pool.

so 1 pool you just keep progressing it.

overall it means a slighter later entry, but now you also have a ki power to pick up. something like barksin maybe for extra ac or sudden speed for mobility or such

Yeah, I did see that, but CRS kicked in.

Yesterday I was looking at Inner Sea Gods and wondering what a Sentinel of Irori might look like. :-)


prototype00 wrote:
... and with one final blow, The Champion smote the Mantis god in full sight of its followers, and the dark period of the Assassins Reign was over. The Champion strode into legend and was never heard from again... ~But 'Kari, you still haven't told us what your secret is for cleaning the top of the temple gates! You were just distracting us with a story! None of us can jump that high!~ That, young grasshoppers, is a story for another day. Now, Shoo! Let an old rag and mop lady get on with her work. The new acolytes are coming today, and the place needs to be shining and spotless to greet them!:** spoiler omitted **...

This is an awesome build, and I want to try something similar in a future game myself, but I noticed that you gave yourself the bloodline arcana, which the Eldritch heritage feat tree does not give you, so you would not have the orc subtype, darkvision or light sensitivity.


Ah, well chalk that up to Herolab being a bit over-enthusiastic.

Oh yeah, Crane Style works... differently these days from when I first wrote a full build, but it is still worth taking for the Fighting defensively modifiers it gives (which in turn feeds into Osyluth Guile for very good AC).

prototype00


prototype00 wrote:

Ah, well chalk that up to Herolab being a bit over-enthusiastic.

Oh yeah, Crane Style works... differently these days from when I first wrote a full build, but it is still worth taking for the Fighting defensively modifiers it gives (which in turn feeds into Osyluth Guile for very good AC).

prototype00

How we could make the Perfect Opening trick to work now?

It seems that Paizo saw to many CoI avoiding critical attacks and decided to change entirely Crane Wing...

Any idea how to do don't die for a frightful critical hit?


Small note, the gong requires worship of a "good god" which Irori is not unless GM rules that the absence of evil = good. Also there is a feat in 3.5 called Serenity that lets you use your wisdom instead of charisma for certain paladin abilities, if your GM allows it it could make this build even better since you could dump charisma for more wisdom/strength.


Dot


What's up my ppl????
So long time since last time we take a good note or gave a quite helpful advice on CoI prestige class.

I would like to know who thought about making a CoI but ranged one instead of punching.

Picking Sohei has Monk to get the Bow Mastery (and gloves of martial mastery too), Paladin and only 2 levels of CoI.

Making: 8 Monk for the FoB with the bow, plus Rapid Shot and Manyshot, and 10 levels of pally...

It could be quite useful... Even with 14 wis, He could have 7 Ki Point, 2 for the ring and 5 to use, but each Ki Channel, using the philactery of good channeling, could restore 5 point... And with 20 Cha, they would be 8 Channels/Day, for a total of 45 Ki Points Daily and the hell from that bow....

Who could Imagine something better to make the perfectionist of the air wave and sense of the arrow?


Any major changes to these builds? Looking to build one starting at 9 or 10 with ABP in effect.


Also, has anyone found a character generator that works with Champion of Irori? I can't find it in PCGen,Minotaur, or YAPCG and I don't currently have that license for Her Lab.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Also, has anyone found a character generator that works with Champion of Irori? I can't find it in PCGen,Minotaur, or YAPCG and I don't currently have that license for Her Lab.

Champion of Irori is in YAPCG, you'll just need to enable the Paths of Prestige source on the Options page.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Champion of Irori does work for Hero Lab.


Rabscuttle wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Also, has anyone found a character generator that works with Champion of Irori? I can't find it in PCGen,Minotaur, or YAPCG and I don't currently have that license for Her Lab.
Champion of Irori is in YAPCG, you'll just need to enable the Paths of Prestige source on the Options page.

Aha! Thank you. Any idea how to get Monk Unchained?

(And if the UnMonk is worth it, despite needing an extra level.)

Ed: Yeah, but I don't have that license or the ability to get it at the moment.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Rabscuttle wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Also, has anyone found a character generator that works with Champion of Irori? I can't find it in PCGen,Minotaur, or YAPCG and I don't currently have that license for Her Lab.
Champion of Irori is in YAPCG, you'll just need to enable the Paths of Prestige source on the Options page.

Aha! Thank you. Any idea how to get Monk Unchained?

Unfortunately, unchained isn't in yet, I'm way behind. (I'm the developer) I'm pretty sure PFUC will end up being the next major sourcebook added, but I can't really give any estimate on when that'll be. (real life is busy)


Captain Morgan wrote:
Any major changes to these builds? Looking to build one starting at 9 or 10 with ABP in effect.

I have been building a ranged version of the CoI and I have to say that I'm hitting for almost 200 dmg at round at lvl 20, without any lithany or mayor spells.

I'm on Jade Regent path right now, but at level 6, just beginning the build. I guess that on lvl 11, will be ready enough to stay alone and help a lot of people.


So is the human build better than Aasimar? And why crusader instead of theologian specifically? Also, perhaps with such a high AC, using snake style instead of crane style would be good? extra AoOs galore


Humans are always good. Aasimar just gives +2 to both core scores and lesser age resistance. So it's that a or the feat, which ever the build calls for.


prototype00 wrote:

So as some forumites might piece together, I've beeen working on a Champion of Irori build (henceforth CoI) for some time.

Here is what I have come up with:

Race: Aasimar

Humble Origins, a.k.a. The root of the lotus Level 1

Master Endless Spring
Male Aasimar Cleric (Theologian) 1
LG Medium Outsider (human, native)

** spoiler omitted **

So I usually don't mock up a 1st level of a 20 level build, but this one needs some explaining: Basically, why cleric? It contributes literally nothing to entering the Champion of Irori PrC. (Still Mind/Smite Evil entry requirements, neither of which cleric provides)

The reasoning is as follows:

** spoiler omitted **...

Hello, I realize this is an old thread but I really like this build. The numbers for the starting stats seem a bit off though. Can anyone recommend a 25pt buy version? I keep calculating 26 points for this one with

14str, 10dex, 12con, 12int, 16wis(+2)=18, 15 cha(+2)=17

101 to 135 of 135 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Irori's Champion: A build for inclusion in the guide to the builds thread. (Hopefully) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.