Arcane Strike enhances my weapons, and Weird Words' biggest weakness is DR. Can I use Arcane Strike to make Weird Words magical? Are the potent sounds weapons? They use ranged touch attacks, and I was never totally clear on if all RTAs were weapons, or if only specifically Rays were (or if all RTAs were considered Rays).
No, I've gone through this before--I thought the same thing, but the devs clarified that anything dealing slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage is subject to DR. I wish it wasn't, but it is.
That said, even if it wasn't, I still want to know if Weird Words count as a weapon. Arcane Strike could make them quite potent indeed.
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Mmmm, shouldn't really need to worry about DR for your Weird Words.
Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains.Given that your Weird Words are ranged touch attacks, they automatically bypass DR.
Wrong, Morgen. Maybe the using the whole paragraph will make it clearer.
Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury poison, a monk's stunning, and injury-based disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.
DR don't negate touch attacks in the contest of it negating all the physical damage of an attack. I.e. if you have a held cause light wound spell and punch a target with DR10/Magic with your mundane fist, the 1d3 point of non lethal damage from your fist will not bypass his DR, but the damage from the inflict spell will.
It could be phrased better but the assumption is that the touch damage isn't one of the P/S/B kinds of damage.
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i've seen table variation on it. on the one hand it requires an attack roll so some consider it a weapon-like spell, like rays, which are a weapon, so arcane strike can be used with them.
arcane strike really needs an errata to determine if it can only be applied to physical weapons in your posession. that would clarify whether it can be used with a ray or touch spell , etc.
arcane strike really needs an errata to determine if it can only be applied to physical weapons in your posession. that would clarify whether it can be used with a ray or touch spell , etc.
It may need clarification, but under the current rules, a ray is unquestionably a weapon, so Arcane Strike definitely works on rays. The main questions, I guess, when you really pare it down, are:
1) Are all RTAs rays?
2) If all RTAs are not rays, are they weapons anyway?
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Blargh, they need to update the PRD then if they don't want it working like that. That's what I pulled that information off of.
No idea what your pointing out in your post Diego Rossi, I looked at that paragraph and don't have any clue how your coming to your conclusion using it.
In the end mplindustries you'll have to speak with your GM. I don't see it being in any way over powered personally and would allow it at my tables, but it seems a bit wonky otherwise and you should expect table variation.
In the end mplindustries you'll have to speak with your GM. I don't see it being in any way over powered personally and would allow it at my tables, but it seems a bit wonky otherwise and you should expect table variation.
Yeah, that's what I was afraid of--I tend to prefer concrete answers to give the GM, so I don't have to rely on his judgement. I'm pretty sure he'll say no--he's really, really opposed to tricks and corner cases that he fears might be too powerful.
I'm just totally stuck on a 5th level feat right now for my Bard...
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Because there aren't touch attacks in the CRB and Bestiary that deal damage from the force of the blow, i.e. P/S/B damage.
You must always remember the order in which the books have been written.
Weird words are a late addition that have a weird effect. Sadly it don't mesh well with the DR rules but don't list an exception.
As usual you need to look all the rules about touch attacks and Dr and get to your own decision.
The function of that rule is to allow the use of rider damage with touch attacks, not to have some weird ability that turn your attack into a touch attack as a way to bypass all DR.
Note that the Bestiary version of Damage Reduction don't cite touch attack, but it cite Supernatural attacks instead (Weird word is a supernatural attack but for that there is a specific Dev ruling):
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su) A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.
The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.
Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage. Others are vulnerable to certain materials, such as adamantine, alchemical silver, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not of the correct type or made of the correct material have their damage reduced, although a high enhancement bonus can overcome some forms of damage reduction.
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons—that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures' natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Some monsters are vulnerable to good-, evil-, chaotically, or lawfully aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that matched the subtype(s) of the creature.
When a damage reduction entry has a dash (—) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction.
A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon that inflicts damage of either type overcomes this damage reduction.
A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction, and a weapon must be both types to overcome this type of damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction.
Format: DR 5/silver; Location: Defensive Abilities.
@mplindustries
1)
Arcane Strike (Combat)
You draw upon your arcane power to enhance your weapons with magical energy.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
2) Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.
If a ray spell has a duration, it's the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.
If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.
3) Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
So:
a) Nowhere it say that ray are a weapon, only that you can treat them as a weapon for the purpose of weapon focus, this apply to a few other feats but not to all weapon feats. Weapon specialization, as an example, don't follow the same special rules.
b) Even disregarding that each ray is a different weapon so you would have to use a swift action with each ray to apply Arcane strike.
c) Weird word are touch attacks, not rays, so there is nothing that even remotely say that they count as weapons.
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Corrections:
1)
Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?
Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.
—Sean K Reynolds, 07/29/11
So you can use weapon specialization with rays.
2) Arcane strike target a weapon and a single weapon when you are using your swift action.
A) Ward words are up to 10 weapons like attacks, at most you could affect one of them (when using a bow you affect the bow, not the arrows).
B) The Weird word don't exist when you are using your swift action to activate Arcane strike, so it can't be used on them (and for that reason it can't be used on a ray, too).
Look, I'll readily believe that Arcane Strike wouldn't work with Weird Words, but the reasons you're giving don't really make sense.
Arcane Strike states:
"For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage..."
Nothing about that states it has to be a manufactured weapon, or that it has to be on your person when you take the swift action. By the wording, I could take a swift action to activate it, a move action to pick up a sword from the ground, and then a standard to attack and still get the Arcane Strike buff. For that reason, I do not believe it makes any difference that the ray does not exist until later in the round.
Arcane Strike works on rays. The real question here (and I'm totally unsure), is whether or not all RTAs are rays, and if they aren't, if they are a separate category of thing that are also weapons (in the same way rays are).
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Targeting mplindustries.
Arcane strike wording imply that you are targeting your weapons, not some random weapons that is on on the ground when you use the ability.
Regardless of that, arcane words are touch attacks, not rays:
Weird Words (Su): At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with 1 potent sound per bard level (maximum 10), each sound affecting one target within 30 feet. These are ranged touch attacks. Each weird word deals 1d8 points of damage plus the bard's Charisma bonus (Fortitude half), and the bard chooses whether it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage for each word. This performance replaces
Nowhere it say that they are rays, so I don't see where you get the idea that they can be rays.
All rays are RTAs. However, not all RTAs are rays, nor are they weapons.
