Butterfly Sting


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hey!

Quick question about this feat.

The rules for Ally specify that you can treat yourself as an "ally" if the situation makes sense.

So, can you dual wield kukris, fishing for a crit, and as soon as get one, you drop your kukris and quickdraw a scythe so that you can get a x4 critical?

What about Spell combat, from the magus? You start attacking and once you get a crit you use your spellcombat strike and hit with Electric Grasp for 2d6 x lvl (max 20d6 at lvl 10).

Thanks!

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Does that really make sense to you?
Because it doesn't really to me.

"Butterfly’s Sting (Critical)
You can forgo a critical hit in order to pass it on to an ally.

Prerequisite: Combat Expertise.

Benefit: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical."

I'm feeling entirely certain that that feat is not intended to be used that way, and should fall outside of the area of it making sense for you to be your own ally.

Just my 2 cents though.


To me it doesn't, but I got the question from one of my players and thought about asking the comunity. I already said no to him.

It is obvious by Rules as intended, but about Rules as written?


So, first off... no.

Second, no.

Third, it clearly specifies that it's "the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack". So your situation of fishing for a crit, then using that attack with a different weapon just doesn't work.

You'll probably come back with the argument that you could use a full attack and (assuming you roll a crit on your first attack) draw a new weapon for the second attack, roll it, hit, and apply the crit... but still "no". It's "the next ally", which explicitly removes you from the list of possibilities.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Quote:
Benefit: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.

if you had TWF, and you managed to crit on your first attack, you could drop the kukris, quickdraw a scythe, but you would no longer be TWF and would not get any attacks with the scythe. You could instead fight with a kukri and a pick of some kind. or at 6th level use your main attack to fish, and your iterative attack to quickdraw a scythe and attack, but you're at a -5 on your iterative, so you have a better chance of messing up the follow up attack.

but lets see, you've just put Combat Expertise, Quickdraw and Butterfly Sting, ( as well as Two Weapon Fighting in possibly), just so you can confirm a critical.

And if you miss with your scythe, the critical is wasted. with two attacks, If you don't critical on your first attack, you gain no benefit. if you have 3 attacks, you've got more chances. but it still can be fouled up by a bad roll. and you're "hogging the ball" with a feat thats intended to boost an ally's crit confirmation.

as a magus, you can't TWF with kukris and use spell combat. it requires one hand free. you could do it with an empty hand, and a kukri. (or a rapier just as easily and better damage). attempt to crit with the weapon, confirm, and then use the free confirmed critical on a spellstrike with the weapon. if you hit with the spellstrike. otherwise its wasted.


THX, Oladon!

"The Next Ally", that's excacly what I said!

Yeah, the intention is not to use the same attack for the critical, but the next one on a full attack.

Dark Archive

I agree with Seraphimpunk.

If the rules say you can sometimes be your own ally, sure.

So long as you can draw your weapon and attack on your attack following your TWF attack.

I don't believe spellstrike (not familiar with magus) can be used as one of many attacks in a full attack. If you can, sure. But extra dice from spells aren't mutliplied on Crits (like the dice from Flaming/Frost weapons).


Well, they are. If the spell required a touch attack.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You are always your own ally. I don't know about kukri/kukri/scythe, but you could definitely go kukri/heavy pick TWF fishing for that crit.


Even if you can't do it yourself, spells like spiritual weapon (which takes the shape and crit range of your deity's weapon) are considered separate from you and could benefit. So go ham with your umd abuse.


I've always really liked this possibility in general.

My main problem with this is how restricted you are for the order of your attacks with two-weapon fighting.

Sohei/Fighters and Brawler/Sacred Fists can potentially flurry with both a 18-20/x2 weapon and a x4 weapon, which gets past that issue.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Butterfly Sting All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.