dot
Only 80% real... Sounds to me like you have to WANT it to be real for it to be there. Or you have to will it to continue working? I'm sure that's far and away from how shadows work having never dealt with high level magic in our games thus far, but it sounds fun and interesting.
Maybe there's a 20% chance every so often that you just blink out of the plane and back to where you were before you got there?
Well... Most of percentages for shadow conjuration seem to suggest it only matters when someone disbelieves them via a Will save. If you intentionally fail your saving throw, you should be able to interact as though it were real.
So, in other words... just believe?
As for how it interacts on creatures that do consider it to be unreal... I don't know. That's a bit curious.
Doooooooooooooooooooot.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm pretty much on board with everyone else who is with the belief thing. It creates a world with "if you believe then it is real". A stone mountain in your plane would only be 80% as hard if you disbelieved it, for example. Food might have 80% the strength of its flavor, nutrients, and so forth. When you disbelieve it you can visibly tell that things aren't entirely real. Yet the thing about it is, it doesn't much matter. 80% real should be more than enough to function.
I'm pretty much on board with everyone else who is with the belief thing. It creates a world with "if you believe then it is real". A stone mountain in your plane would only be 80% as hard if you disbelieved it, for example. Food might have 80% the strength of its flavor, nutrients, and so forth. When you disbelieve it you can visibly tell that things aren't entirely real. Yet the thing about it is, it doesn't much matter. 80% real should be more than enough to function.
And since this is basically the way that the Plane of Shadow is described (things are a pale imitation of the Material, and so on), that makes perfect sense.
I'm pretty much on board with everyone else who is with the belief thing. It creates a world with "if you believe then it is real". A stone mountain in your plane would only be 80% as hard if you disbelieved it, for example. Food might have 80% the strength of its flavor, nutrients, and so forth. When you disbelieve it you can visibly tell that things aren't entirely real. Yet the thing about it is, it doesn't much matter. 80% real should be more than enough to function.And since this is basically the way that the Plane of Shadow is described (things are a pale imitation of the Material, and so on), that makes perfect sense.
Exactly! ^-^
Be a shadow sorcerer and its 100% real.
The Shadow Conjuration line of spells can be so frustrating at times. 80% real Demiplane or a 80% real greater Planar Binding can be so difficult to adjudicate in a fair manner.
If you find the 20% that's fake do you slip into the space between the planes?
If you find the 20% that's fake do you slip into the space between the planes?
There has been many a video game with bugs that seem to produce this very effect! :)
The shadow sorceror should give a +1% bonus every level, not just a 20% bonus at 20th level, comes in far too late in my opinion.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is pretty much the reason I'd prefer to use a slightly tweaked (for balance purposes) genesis spell. Specifically, using the genesis printed in the psionics handbook which is far more detailed and balanced than the original genesis spell I linked formerly (which first appeared in the Manual of the Planes for 3.0 I believe).
A Pathfinder version would look much like this.
Genesis
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Creation 9
Components: V, S, M (precious metals worth 5,000 gp)
Casting Time: 1 week (8 hours/day)
Range: 180 ft. (see text)
Effect: A demiplane coterminous with the Ethereal Plane, centered on your location
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: NoYou create a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. Demiplanes created by this power are very small, very minor planes. This power works best when cast while you are on the Astral Plane. The casting of this spell creates a local density fluctuation that precipitates the creation of a demiplane. At first, the fledgling plane grows in radius at a rate of 1 foot per day to an initial maximum radius of 180 feet as it rapidly draws substance from the surrounding astral ectoplasm. Once the new demiplane reaches its maximum size, it doesn’t really stop growing, but its growth rate decreases to only 1 foot per week (approximately a 50-foot increase in radius per year). Once your demiplane is created, you can travel to it using spells such as plane shift, gate, or some other power or permanent link that you arrange for separately.
You determine the environment within the demiplane when you cast genesis, reflecting most any desire you can visualize. You determine factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain. This spell cannot create life (including vegetation), nor can it create construction (such as buildings, roads, wells, dungeons, and so forth). You must add these details in some other fashion if you desire. You can’t create lingering magic effects with this spell; you have to add those separately, if desired. Similarly, you can’t create a demiplane out of esoteric material, such as silver or uranium; you’re limited to stone and dirt. You can’t manipulate the time trait on your demiplane; its time trait is as the Material Plane. Once your demiplane reaches 180 feet in radius, you can cast this spell again to gradually add another 180 feet of radius to it, and so on.
Antigenesis
If genesis is cast on an existing plane (other than the astral plane or to expand an existing demiplane), the spell takes effect and the demiplane begins to grow at the rate noted above, but it gets no larger than a radius of 1 foot per caster level. The energies of the new plane are exactly canceled by the energies of the original plane, creating a dead spot like a limited cancer on the original plane. The expanding boundary of the dead spot wipes away all construction, crumbles natural land forms, and evaporates water, leaving behind a uniformly level area of inert dust. Living creatures that pass the boundary of the growing dead spot are not directly affected, but plants can find no sustenance in the dust of the dead spot, water-breathing creatures die quickly when water turns to dust, and mobile animals know enough to leave the area alone. Once the wave of change passes, no special essence remains in the dead spot, and it may be colonized naturally over the course of several years by bacteria, plants, and animals.
I prefer this version because it's an instantaneous effect. I personally find create demiplane plus permanency to be very clunky and a good indication that you really don't want try and make your own demiplane. Especially since by the time you can actually do such an awesome thing as create your own plane, it is trivially easy to tear up (I mean with create demiplane + permanency it costs you around 18,000 gp to have a little demiplane, and about 1,500 gp to destroy it).
This version is also more fun and nicer for the GM because you can use it to create more exotic locations. Create demiplane is forced to be like a temperate spring day and there's little to no customization to it. Genesis on the other hand is far from OP in the hands of PCs and opens up a world of cool possibilities for interesting environments. A great example is genesis could be used to create a prison for a powerful being (such as in FotRR), could be used to create a seemingly insane world with bizarre gravity owned by a mad sorcerer. It could be used to create trials or oppositions (such as making doors in a tower lead into or through demiplanes).
You could even create an Azure Dreams style adventure/dungeon where the dungeon itself was different levels of vastly different tiny worlds.
I got it
every 5th 5'cube is missing like some demented game of minecraft.
I got it
every 5th 5'cube is missing like some demented game of minecraft.
This... I like this.
Be a shadow sorcerer and its 100% real.
The Shades spell doesn't seem to be covered by the Shadow Master ability. No 100% real shadow demiplanes for you :-).