Minimum reasonable Constitution score?


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Grand Lodge

8...anything lower and your generally in pretty big trouble in most games. I like at least 10 however.

Silver Crusade

Petty Alchemy wrote:
Elamdri wrote:

The absolute lowest I will ever drop Con as a PC is 10. Having a negative Con is unacceptable.

For NPCs that won't have a con score, like undead, I will drop the con to 7. I won't go any lower than that, because that's the lowest that a point buy will allow.

Cruel! I give my undead a 12 as well, since I assume that's what they had in life. Unless they really were frail in life.

No, cruel would be making an undead BBEG with class levels that use Charisma as one of it's main stats.

Like a Vampire Sorcerer or a Anti-Paladin Graveknight.

Both of which I have done.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Eight.

Though, I tend to keep it in the ten to twelve range for most my characters. Most games I am in are fifteen point buys. Strangely, in my twentyfive point buy game I am in currently, the character is a melee with twelve con. *shrugs* I get greedy with other stats.

Greg


@Elamdri: Lich Sorcerer with as much CHA as possible.


12 or 14, 10 in really special cases. Never less AND neveer more. 16 con is waste due to con being a sucky stat.

Edit: unless you're casting with con

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Elamdri wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:
Elamdri wrote:

The absolute lowest I will ever drop Con as a PC is 10. Having a negative Con is unacceptable.

For NPCs that won't have a con score, like undead, I will drop the con to 7. I won't go any lower than that, because that's the lowest that a point buy will allow.

Cruel! I give my undead a 12 as well, since I assume that's what they had in life. Unless they really were frail in life.

No, cruel would be making an undead BBEG with class levels that use Charisma as one of it's main stats.

Like a Vampire Sorcerer or a Anti-Paladin Graveknight.

Both of which I have done.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I think Cha class undead are par for the creature type. I do that too >:)

Silver Crusade

Petty Alchemy wrote:
Elamdri wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:
Elamdri wrote:

The absolute lowest I will ever drop Con as a PC is 10. Having a negative Con is unacceptable.

For NPCs that won't have a con score, like undead, I will drop the con to 7. I won't go any lower than that, because that's the lowest that a point buy will allow.

Cruel! I give my undead a 12 as well, since I assume that's what they had in life. Unless they really were frail in life.

No, cruel would be making an undead BBEG with class levels that use Charisma as one of it's main stats.

Like a Vampire Sorcerer or a Anti-Paladin Graveknight.

Both of which I have done.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I think Cha class undead are par for the creature type. I do that too >:)

Man, Graveknight and Anti-Paladin are like a match made in heaven.

Smite Good AND Ruinous Revivification? SO GOOD.


My name is Ben "the holy arrow", Im a halfling Paladin archer and I will oneshot you anyway. Nice try though.

Scarab Sages

I have a number of characters with 8 Constitution. They're doing fine. Most of them are ranged characters (and not coincidentally, Elves), but one of them is a monk - though admittedly, a hungry ghost monk with the Toughness feat who keeps mage armor potions around for battle.

The lowest I would conceivably take Constitution for is 6, and that would only be for ranged specialists (arcane archers, 3.5 warlocks, etc.), and I'd try to get them magic items to increase their Constitution about as soon as I could.

I've never been afraid to make fragile characters, it's not that catastrophic as long as you know what risks not to take.


6 con is actually not playable when the DM plays the NPC's at their best.


Lowest I've gone was 10, but that was a support spellcaster who avoided combat like the plague (and I still put my FCB into HP)

Dark Archive

I usually start with a 13 and bump it to 14 at level 4. I try not to got below 12 on any character.


Victor Zajic wrote:
I usually start with a 13 and bump it to 14 at level 4. I try not to got below 12 on any character.

That makes no sense.

Shadow Lodge

Makes perfect sense to me.


I start with 14 minimum, and if it's a class with a d6 hit die (arcane casters), I take Toughness at level 1.

(My main PFS character - Violetta the Enchantress, Sorcerer 12 (she'll be 13 tomorrow!) has 102 hit points "walking around" (assuming an average roll for False Life), and that will go up to 122 at level 13 (when she'll pick up a +2 con belt); add another 18 or so from a use of [i]Vampiric Touch[/i}, and you have a greater invisible, flying sorcerer with 140 hit points. Very survivable!

At high levels, one critical hit can drop an arcane caster who isn't durable.


TOZ wrote:
Makes perfect sense to me.

How?

Dark Archive

Wasum wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Makes perfect sense to me.
How?

The nature of point buy means a 13 and a level bump allows for higher overall stats than a 14.

However, I usually prefer to bump a 17 to an 18 with my level 4 increase.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Wasum wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Makes perfect sense to me.
How?

Start off with a 13 and the 4th level bump represents the character getting tougher as he stops being a novice. Saves a couple points to use on other scores and you're only missing three hit points for the first three levels.

If playing a non-melee character, or one that probably won't be played long enough to reach 4th, just settle for 12 instead of having a useless odd number.


Mergy wrote:
Wasum wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Makes perfect sense to me.
How?

The nature of point buy means a 13 and a level bump allows for higher overall stats than a 14.

However, I usually prefer to bump a 17 to an 18 with my level 4 increase.

you're bumping for 2 points there. Bumping a higher stat would be worth 3 or even more points. So starting with 14 and putting the bump in a higher stat later allowes for 1 or more extra points at character creation.


In any campaign awarding max HP's I think 14 is the most I would put into con, and 10 is perfectly acceptable.

In any campaign where you get average HP's I'd probably not go with less than 12.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The score will be depends on how your GM is generating ability scores.

For random rolls, Con should typically be your third highest attribute for most classes, second for heavy-armor Fighters with limited DEX bonus to AC. Some ability score heavy classes, such as the Bards, Druids and Monks will have to go with fourth highest.

For point-buy, I'd typically go with 14 unless it is a lower powered game, in which case a 12 is necessary.

Now I want to play a dwarf barbarian with max Con, Toughness, and favored class hp bonus just for kicks.


Wasum wrote:


you're bumping for 2 points there. Bumping a higher stat would be worth 3 or even more points. So starting with 14 and putting the bump in a higher stat later allowes for 1 or more extra points at character creation.

It basically depends on when you want or need that 2 boost to your primary stat.

Most games end around level 12 so it's not like you can really use 3 level bumps to your primary stat anyway unless intrinsic bonuses are liable to show up that early (cost wise this is generally) rare.

So in those case +2 point buy points for another stat might mean you have a 18 instead of a 17.

The Exchange

10, usually.

from the 8-12 range you've only paid/gained 1 point per stat point, so it is usually very efficient to buy it up to 12 so that even after the racial hits, you have a 10.

After that it depends on approach. I worry more about fort saves than I do about hitpoints - so if I'm building a charisma based character I'll go with Stoic (sodden lands affinity) to get the charisma bonus to fort save.

So one feat buys typically by mid game a +9 to fort save.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

12.

Try to get 14 if you can afford it, though. Far too many characters really neglect this stat.


I think the rule for Con is that it should never be your highest or lowest stat. It should always be solidly in the middle.

The Exchange

mcv wrote:
I think the rule for Con is that it should never be your highest or lowest stat. It should always be solidly in the middle.

Or on the higher end if you are a Barbarian or something. Extra Rage rounds never hurt anyone(Except for the enemy.)

Sczarni

For me, it depends on the race.

If they get a bonus to Con, I usually leave it at a 10 and let the race stats bump it to 12.

If they get a penalty to Con, I start it at a 12-14 and have the race drop it to 10-12.

Of course, this is with serious consideration into what class/race combo I'm going for.


I have a fighter that has an 8 base con, 10 now due to magic. It is my lowest stat, and I'm just fine.

In the game several other "con monsters" have died horribly while my char has never been into the negatives.

He's built to be a smart fighter, a tactitian and a thinker.

Stats < good roleplaying IMO


The lowest "reasonable" Con clearly depends on your role. Obviously, "the most you can afford to have without sacrificing your primary ability score(s)" will always be "better", but for playable minimums, and assuming FCB to HP in each case:

Full BAB melee - 12 minimum recommended, 10 is workable with good defenses or as a Pally

3/4 BAB melee - 12 minimum, but you'd better have solid defenses

Any ranged/caster - 10 minimum recommended, 8 workable if you've got good/magical defenses

Playing a large percentage of encounters outdoors, where there is plenty of room and terrain features for tactical movement, ranged characters can get away with a bit less. In full on dungeon crawls with lots of hallways and small rooms, they'll need more since they can't avoid being in the thick of things.

All that said, I once played a concept Wizard from levels 1-6 who had a Con of 7 with a GM who is definitely not one to pull punches or take much mercy. Sure, he was fragile, but it really wasn't so hard to keep him alive with sound tactical choices and cautious play. He only got knocked out once and never actually died before we ended the campaign.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Just as a fun anecdote, there's a local PFS player with a paladin who's incredibly difficult to kill. He's about 9th-10th level, with an AC of 18 (touch of 7). But he has adamantine full plate (granting DR 3/--), he has LoH as a swift action a ludicrous number of times per day, he's a Hospitaler so his Channeling doesn't expend LoH uses, and he prepares multiple slots of hero's defiance every day so he can heal himself reactively if he was going to drop.

A level 1 warrior could hit him fairly consistently, but the man just doesn't stay hurt!


Two years ago at Dragoncon, I had the 2nd longest lasting character. She had a con of 7.

HPs don't mean squat if you get hit every round. It is ALWAYS better to avoid the damage entirely.

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