Rise of the Runelords Scholar Character - Advice Needed


Advice

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'm working on a character for a Rise of the Runelords game on another forum. The problem is that I'm frustrated in trying to find a way to use my concept.

At its most basic level, the character is supposed to be a scholar researching the lost empire of Thassilon. The AP's practically BEGGING for at least one character to be like that. At first it seemed pretty simple: A wizard multiclassing into Cyphermage, as Cyphermages draw heavily from Thassilonian study.

But before I could write up a sheet, someone else decided to play a sorcerer, and another person decided to play a witch. For the sake of party balance, I can't play a wizard. But that leaves me frustrated as to how to capture the idea of "this is a mage archaeologist figure."

The Cypher Hunter archetype from Varisia: Birthplace of Legends, offers some suggestions: One is an Archivist Bard. That could work, but I don't know how well it meshes with Cyphermage. Plus, that would leave our party without trapfinding and without dedicated healing (the witch can heal in a pinch, but I've read somewhere that a party shouldn't depend on a witch for healing). An Oracle of Lore would also work, but then the character can't be a Cyphermage, as that's restricted to arcane spellcasters only. If I took the Seeker archetype I'd be able to cover both trapfinding and healing, but then I give up the class skills from Lore, and that includes all important knowledge skills like arcana (to study ancient Thassilonian magic), engineering (to analyze Thassilonian architecture), and Linguistics (to learn and read Thassilonian and the languages it's connected with, like Varisian, Shoanti and Giant).

Finally, I can't figure out a race. My initial idea was a halfling, since they have a CHA bonus and I liked the idea of the character being a timorous scholar roped into a big adventure, kind of like Bilbo Baggins with a dash of C-3P0. But other races have better advantages it seems, like the Ancient Lorekeeper for elves, which would allow me to take wizard spells, and thus make a stronger connection to the wizardry Thassilon was built on. But Ancient Lorekeeper and Seeker are mutually exclusive, since the affect the class skills an Oracle gets. Plus, I feel like an elf would have no reason to be concerned with a dead human empire. Thassilon's history is not elven, so why bother with it when there's so much ELVEN history to learn about? Gnomes are too easily typecast into the "wacky scholar" in my opinion, and again there's the problem of why a non-human would be concerned with a human empire. The reason halflings aren't necessarily included in this question is because their history is so intertwined with human history that connections could be drawn.

Before people ask why I don't just ask others to alter their concepts, it's basically because this is part of a multi-part campaign where we run through all the Varisian Adventure Paths and Jade Regent, and our characters all have to have connections to one another. The one playing a monk is playing a monk in each campaign, representing a different faction and ideal among the Brothers of the Seal. The one playing a Sorcerer is playing a Sorcerer in each campaign, all of them half-brothers but with different magical bloodlines because "Mom really got around." The one playing a witch has his characters all as children of the same Varisian caravan. For me, it's more flexible because my only connection is that the characters' parents and mentors were all part of the same adventuring party in the past.

So...I'm at a loss. Do we need trapfinding? Healing? The party currently consists of an Aberrant Sorcerer, a Witch planning on becoming a Harrower, some sort of Monk from the Brothers of the Seal in Kaer Maga and an Ulfen barbarian who's in Sandpoint after leaving her creepy ex-boyfriends behind in Kalsgard. How do I make a character that captures that "part of this campaign is about exploring Varisia's past and learning more about Thassilon than any scholar could have ever imagined."


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Hi and welcome to RotR

You might get a few non-answers, but I hope this will help you.

You may find that this is not an option, but I'd go ahead and suggest you go with your intended concept and roll your cypher-mage. I realize that the metagame demands a certain party setup, and I'm not denying neither the mechanical nor novelty value of the classic, balanced party, but when you get right down it, you can easily have any mix of characters. I suggest you talk to your Witch and Sorcerer and ask what kind of role they intend to fill with their spellcasting. As a wizard you can fill any role they cannot/do not, and your concept does not have to suffer for it.

I'm of the belief that you can have a one-class party, because the interplay between characters should be based on the personalities of the adventurers.

In terms of race I'm gonna go ahead and say pick anything. I think that elf is quite nice, and I do not see Thassilon being an azlanti empire as a problem at all. Any member of any race can have his own interests, because every such character is a character first, and a class/race combination second. You could make an elven bard, specializing in human sea-shanties, and I wouldn't bat an eyelash. Everyone needs something to do.

I hope my advice have been useful and I hope you have fun with RotR

Cheers

-Nearyn

Shadow Lodge

I'm gonna go ahead and recommend the Oracle of Lore. If you liked Halfling, Loracles do just fine as halflings. Also, being an Oracle means you can bring a lot of healing and control to the party.

Grand Lodge

Inquisitor with the Knowledge Domain will make you quite a knowledgeable fellow.

The Tiefling's favored class bonus will add to knowledge checks.

You don't even need a high Int for it.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sesharan wrote:
I'm gonna go ahead and recommend the Oracle of Lore. If you liked Halfling, Loracles do just fine as halflings. Also, being an Oracle means you can bring a lot of healing and control to the party.

That's what I've been leaning towards, but I'm not sure whether to be a Seeker and thus abandon the Knowledge skills, or not. Isn't trapfinding something that's essential? What if the party encounters traps?

Grand Lodge

The need for a "trap guy" is a ghost of previous editions.

There are ways of dealings with the the rare trap.

Unless you have a DM that really likes to add lots of traps.


Oracle of Lore and Prestiege into Loremaster at later levels/+10 would give u an extremely knowledgable character ntm ud have plenty of heals and CC for combat.. 2 levels of paladin would also give u retarded saves and fullplate/hvy sheilds and martial weapon, 1 smite..

The Exchange

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
That's what I've been leaning towards, but I'm not sure whether to be a Seeker and thus abandon the Knowledge skills, or not. Isn't trapfinding something that's essential? What if the party encounters traps?

The trapfinding class ability doesn't exactly do what the name implies. The important thing to remember is that locating any type of trap (magical or mechanical) can be done by anyone with a high enough Perception. Similarly anyone can take ranks in Disable Device and use it to disable non-magical traps. However ONLY characters with the trapfinding class feature can disable magical traps.

Having said that, there is a spell in Pathfinder Society Field Guide (which I assume you're using since you are talking about the seeker archetype) called Aram Zey's Focus. It's personal range, alchemist 2, bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2 and gives you the trapfinding ability for minutes/level. So the sorcerer (or you if you start as a bard) can take this as a spell known and cast it after finding a trap. Just make sure you have sufficient ranks in Disable Device.

I like your party theme (tying the campaigns together). Bards are always a good choice but going cyphermage will actually hurt some of your defining class abilities (inspire courage bonus stops growing, you don't get some higher level bardsongs, you won't get as big of a knowledge bonus from Bardic Knowledge, less versatile performances, and you'll be limited in the number of times you can take 20 with Lore Master.) From a "rounded party makeup" viewpoint a single-classed oracle is probably your best bet. In addition to the Oracle of Lore you can consider the Enlightened Philosopher archetype who also gets all knowledge skills as class skills and the Mental Acuity revelation but can have any mystery.

Shadow Lodge

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Archaeologist Bard?
Just be sure to go Gnome or Half Elf so you can use your favored class bonuses to boost your archaeologist's luck rounds.
Although BBT does have point with not needing a trap guy you also don't need as many skill points in PF to be a trap guy.


I agree with Nearyn. Do your original concept. It will make the game more interesting to have three arcane spellcasters and a monk. You could also consider the Magaambyan Arcanist if you want access to healing via the Druid spells they can delve into. From a roleplaying perspective, you could be studying one ancient tradition ( Thassilon ) while mastering another ( Magaambyan ). You could even pursue Cypher Mage later or dabble in both. Maybe take just 3 levels of Magaambyan in order to get Cure Light and Lesser Restoration on your spell list so you can use wands, and then dig into Cyphermage at full tilt from level 9.

Anyway, as for justifying being an Elf studying a human empire, thats easy. Lots of adventuring elves are social outcasts. Whether you were socially snubbed or shunned because of your belief that Thassilon's magic rivaled that of the Elves, or whether shunned for some other reason which then prompted your study of other cultures due to being cut off from your own, or some other reason ... It is easy to justify.

Best wishes!


Although it may be a difficult campaign, I'm thirding both Naeryn and Animation (though I'd suggest having a back-up character, just in case).

As far as elves researching Azlanti stuff, there's an entire tower of crazy-elves (universally depicted as blonde with green eyes, from what I've seen and recall) that live out of the Steaming Sea who're positively obsessed with Azlant, and who go to great lengths to prevent anyone at all from possessing a shred of anything once belonging to the Azlanti. They were originally enemies of the Azlanti empire, stayed on Golarion (in their freakish tower) even during and after Earthfall from what I can tell, and consider themselves the rightful inheritors of ancient Azlant; they try to prevent others from attempting to claim the ancient legacy.

Heck, there's even a trait dedicated to those guys (though it gives a +1 bonus to swim and against enchantments, so you might not want it, depending on your character concept), and an archetype (though it's for a Magus, so still probably not what you want).

You could easily be, or be the descendant of, an outcast from the Mordant Spire (or even someone who's left of their own volition), an elf who's long heard of the bizarre obsession of his fellow elves (the only ones that stayed on Golarion) and has gained a driving need to know, or anything else, really.

If you really wanted to be a Halfling... be a Halfling! They're great! Hard to hit (small and dexterity), better-than-normal saves, and charming to boot, there's really nothing wrong with them, unless you're planning on going into melee combat or need to carry a lot of stuff. Effectively, a Halfling's job is to not get hit and occasionally throw things. This works great for mages (though more so for sorcerers or oracles)!

Ultimately, do what you want to do, and don't worry too much about it. Optimizing isn't the most important thing. Enjoying is.

The main thing you really need to do without a healer is make sure you have multiple wands of cure light wounds, and that should cover things for you for basic healing. Yes, it can get expensive and it kind of cheapens divine spellcasters, but also very practical and thus not metagamey from my perspective - and you don't yet have any divine spellcasters, yet, unless you decide to go with it. From the stories I've heard, however, wands generally last long enough that you won't need a ton of 'em (and if you purchase it, you should have the command word, so no need to guess).

In any event, enjoy!

EDIT: please note, that my "vote" is a vote based on the fact that you seem to most want to play the Cypher Mage. I'm actually suggesting that you choose what you want to choose, rather than trying to say, "You should do it this way!"


I'd also suggest the seeker lore oracle but would make the character a gnome who is over 100 years old allowing the Breadth of Experience feat which lets you make any knowledge or profession check untrained and grants a +2 to all of them making them practically class skills anyway. This added to the lore keeper revelation should give you all the knowledge skills at a good level.

Grand Lodge

Skerek wrote:

Archaeologist Bard?

Just be sure to go Gnome or Half Elf so you can use your favored class bonuses to boost your archaeologist's luck rounds.
Although BBT does have point with not needing a trap guy you also don't need as many skill points in PF to be a trap guy.

The additional bonus to being the archaeologist bard is that you gain trapfinding AND rogue talents. You can supplement the group healing with cure spells (as the only arcane caster to get them) and can therefore use cure wands without Use Magic Device. You still keep Bardic knowledge, and with a couple of feats, I believe you can qualify for Cypher Mage.

Grand Lodge

You can also be a small-sized Tiefling, and descendant from Halflings.

Oni-Spawn Tiefling is a good choice stat-wise, and with the Alter Self ability, you can go full Halfling when desired.

Outside of Preacher, no Inquisitor archetype is good for this, so stick with core.

Inquisitor will also allow you to be skillfull, and still decent in combat.


Wizard conjurer with experimental wordcaster feat for standard action summons. Consider the thassilonian sin magic for extra summons.

Use the summons as meat shields and trapspringers and eventually healing.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Aeshuura wrote:
Skerek wrote:

Archaeologist Bard?

Just be sure to go Gnome or Half Elf so you can use your favored class bonuses to boost your archaeologist's luck rounds.
Although BBT does have point with not needing a trap guy you also don't need as many skill points in PF to be a trap guy.
The additional bonus to being the archaeologist bard is that you gain trapfinding AND rogue talents. You can supplement the group healing with cure spells (as the only arcane caster to get them) and can therefore use cure wands without Use Magic Device. You still keep Bardic knowledge, and with a couple of feats, I believe you can qualify for Cypher Mage.

But you give up Bardic Performance...so is there any real point to having Perform anymore (Perform (oratory) would be great flavor for a character more comfortable lecturing students in a safe study hall than out adventuring). Like I said, I'm trying to build this guy as a reluctant adventurer, someone more comfortable among books and scrolls, where it's safe and calm, and that part of his character development in Rise of the Runelords would be growing a spine.

That's part of the reason why I ignored gnomes. I feel like they're too enthusiastic and brave for this concept.

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