List of expected items by level

[Gwen Smith]

On the messageboards, I've seen comments that indicate the game designers and scenario authors expect parties to have different abilities by certain levels. (For example, comments like "the party should have dimension door or fly by 7th level" or "well, if your sixth level party had fly like they should, you wouldn't have had 3 character deaths.")

Is there a list somewhere of what abilities are expected at each level or what items GMs or scenarios authors would assume your party has?

[Rob Duncan]

I've yet to see a list like the one you describe, but people like Kyle Baird have posted in other thread a sort of "things you should be able to deal with".

If I remember correctly, I would think that you need to be able to handle:
- darkness (including scary magical darkness)
- damage resistance
- cold weather
- big heights
- invisible things
- flying things
- swarms

But generally, I have not seen that broken down by level..

[Caderyn]

Flight is expected to be available at level 5, its a 750 gp potion for the very occasional time that you will need it, as while its expected that you can do it, its not a requirement to be able to.

Basically you are expected to have spells of your APL, so if your in a T4-5 scenario (APL is thus 4.5) your expected to have level 2 spells (so any useful level 2 spells will be assumed to be available to the party either through scrolls, potions, wands or spell lists)

Thus at Tiers 5-6 and 6-7 (APL's 5.5 and 6.5) your expected to have access to 3rd level spells, like fly (flying opponents), daylight (deeper darkness), and all the other generically useful 3rd level spells.

Basically as long as you have at level casting of utility spells (through scrolls, wands, potions, or casters) you should have no troubles handling things.

[Netopalis]

I'd throw out haunts there too, at least for the time being.

Also, things that can try to trip/grapple you.

[Myron Pauls]

A great starting point is Painlord's "What to Expect at a PFS Table" post, as well as the comments in that thread.

[Gwen Smith]

Caderyn wrote:

Flight is expected to be available at level 5, its a 750 gp potion for the very occasional time that you will need it, as while its expected that you can do it, its not a requirement to be able to.

Basically you are expected to have spells of your APL, so if your in a T4-5 scenario (APL is thus 4.5) your expected to have level 2 spells (so any useful level 2 spells will be assumed to be available to the party either through scrolls, potions, wands or spell lists)

Thus at Tiers 5-6 and 6-7 (APL's 5.5 and 6.5) your expected to have access to 3rd level spells, like fly (flying opponents), daylight (deeper darkness), and all the other generically useful 3rd level spells.

Basically as long as you have at level casting of utility spells (through scrolls, wands, potions, or casters) you should have no troubles handling things.

What is considered a "useful" level 2 spells? (And if the others aren't useful, why are they on the list?)

And how do you manage the issue of party composition? (Huh--we don't seem to have any spellcasters...guess we're stuck?)

[Caderyn]

Buy potions or scrolls, and by useful I mean utility type spells not the blasty or control types just the generically useful ones,

Level 1, Cure light wounds is the biggest one

The big level 2 spells are silence (oil), Deafness (potion sorcerer/wizard version), glitterdust (scroll or wand as you will want this alot), see invis (scroll, or wand same reasons as glitterdust), Continual flame (potion or scroll, or spellcasting service) basically counters for invisible opponents and darkness see invisible lets you spot them, glitterdust allows you all to see them with a small chance of blinding (from a scroll or wand the DC is 12), silence and Deafness handle sonic effects like harpies which are common enough to be worth the cost, silence is an AoE and Deafness is permanent (there is at least 2 scenarios where you know your going up against harpies before you arrive) till you take a standard action to end it (its dismissable and as the drinker of the potion you are the caster and target and can choose when to dismiss it).

Other ok spells are invisibility, hell even a wand of obscuring mist (level 1) can annoy invisible people (they can only see 5ft in the mist)

The big level 3 spells are fly (potion), daylight (oil only never ever get a scroll of daylight), remove blindness (for when the enemies blind you), dispel magic (scroll or wand), Displacement (Potion 50% miss chance for 5 rounds)

Note this isnt to say that other spells arent great to have as well just that if you lack arcane/divine casters having consumables that can cover the essentials (or even if you do have them but they went down in the surprise round)

[CRobledo]

Darkvision for lvl 2 spell if you dont have it naturally.

Remember LVL 3 potions are exactly 750gp, conveniently what 2pp gets you.

[Eelario]

Look up Painlord's profile...he has a link to a list of this sort that he prepared and posted a few years ago.

[Gwen Smith]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! This is really, really helpful information.

[Jiggy]

Here are some quick, off the top of my head guidelines. Feel free to adjust depending on your character's capabilities.
.
.
.
Upon character creation:
Rope
Dagger
Sling (or better)

After first scenario:
Reliable light source (such as an ioun torch or wayfinder)
Air crystals/potion of air bubble
Healing wand (such as cure light wounds) even if you can't activate it

Around 2nd level:
Potion/scroll of spider climb
Oil/scroll of magic weapon
Ability to bypass DR based on slashing/bludgeoning/piercing
Antitoxin
Antiplague

Around 3rd level:
Oil of grease
Ability to bypass DR/silver and DR/cold iron
Oil/scroll of bless weapon or align weapon
Anti-invisibility (such as faerie fire or glitterdust), even if it's a scroll to hand to someone else

Around 4th level:
Oil of daylight
Potion/scroll of fly

[Malehavoc's Revenge]

I actually don't disagree with Ken Jenks posting from the halcyon days of LG. I myself played every year of the Living Greyhawk Campaign. I was in the Bissel region. Want to talk about Undead, Shadow Plane and Evard the Conjurer (Not Necromancer).

I feel that some of what i learned as a LG player has helped me continue on in PFS. I don't expect my fellow table mates to do all those things, But i always recommend that they look out side the box of there view of what they want there PC to be.

I always tell them "Cover your own butt, you never know what/who is going to be at your table."

[Cpt_kirstov]

Wow Jiggy, that list is pretty different from what I see around here putting notes about my level 10 ranger on your list below (note: a bunch are unneeded because he was a crossbow ranger:

Upon character creation:
Rope
Dagger
Sling (or better)

After first scenario:
Reliable light source (such as an ioun torch or wayfinder)got this at scend level after dealing with "little white haired alien-men" in TDYK series
Air crystals/potion of air bubbleNever had one, never wish I did
Healing wand (such as cure light wounds) even if you can't activate it He got this when he ran out of potions, somewhere around 5th level, and has only used 3 charges

Around 2nd level:
Potion/scroll of spider climb Never had one, never wished I did
Oil/scroll of magic weapon Never had one, never wished I did
Ability to bypass DR based on slashing/bludgeoning/piercing
AntitoxinNever had one, never wished I did
Antiplague didn't have any until my other character played pallid plague

Around 3rd level:
Oil of grease Never had one, never wished I did
Ability to bypass DR/silver and DR/cold iron Got this when ultimate combat came out its called cluster shot
Oil/scroll of bless weapon or align weapon see above
Anti-invisibility (such as faerie fire or glitterdust), even if it's a scroll to hand to someone else

Around 4th level:
Oil of daylight Only wished I had one once. and at that point I wasn't even fighting, the thing, I was secondary healer.
Potion/scroll of flyNever had one, never wished I did

[Sarta]

Here's my personal suggestions:

Potion/Scroll of Touch of the Sea > Air Bubble. Both only last a minute. Even sickly elves can hold their breath that long. I'll take the swim speed personally. Later, the Pirate's Eyepatch is a nice upgrade.

I would also suggest several alchemical supplies after the first scenario: Holy Water, Acid Flasks, Alchemist's Fire, Smokesticks, Tindertwigs, Tanglefoot Bags, and Sun Rods are all wise investments. When playing up or up against a tough opponent, sometimes it's a good idea to go for touch AC. A tanglefoot bag may provide the debuff needed by teammates to hit.

[Patrick Harris @ SD]

Light! Heavens. I played a scenario recently where the humans at the table didn't have light sources! Even if it's just a torch or two.

[BigNorseWolf]

How was i supposed to know that humans can't see in moonlight!

[Odea]

Will Johnson wrote:

Here's my personal suggestions:

Potion/Scroll of Touch of the Sea > Air Bubble.

Either way, it better be in a 2g Potion Sponge so you can drink it under water!

[Macon Bacon, Esquire]

Earl Gendron wrote:

Wow Jiggy, that list is pretty different from what I see around here putting notes about my level 10 ranger on your list below (note: a bunch are unneeded because he was a crossbow ranger:

Emphasis mine.

[Jiggy]

Earl Gendron wrote:

Wow Jiggy, that list is pretty different from what I see around here putting notes about my level 10 ranger on your list below (note: a bunch are unneeded because he was a crossbow ranger:

There will always be variance. Maybe you never encounter the possibility of drowning, maybe you play five water-based scenarios in a row. Maybe you nearly die due to being swallowed whole once and buy oils of grease for all your PCs, but then never get grappled ever again.

On the other hand, maybe you figure the odds of needing to climb are low enough not to bother with it, and then find yourself at the bottom of a pit during a fight. Maybe you figure you're not that likely to need daylight but then play that one scenario with dark stalkers sneak attacking your sorry blind arse.

That's the thing with consumables: most of them won't get used, but the point is to have an assortment of them so that the ONE item you DO need is available. You're not likely to face deeper darkness AND flying enemies AND drowning risks AND invisible creatures AND this AND that, etc. But you WILL face one or two of those, and you won't know ahead of time which of them you'll face.

Thus, I always suggest being prepared.

[twells]

My 0.02,

1st Level

If you choose not carry a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, you should not expect others to heal you. This should be you first expenditure of 2 pp. This is central to the whole combat system folks, and the way the current scenarios are stacking up, if you play at tier, you will need them.

[Todd Lower]

Earl Gendron wrote:

Wow Jiggy, etc.

Wow, at 10th level you've never needed to fly to get to or attack a BBEG, you sure haven't played the adventures that my characters have.

[Caderyn]

its a crossbow focused ranger he wouldnt need fly as much as PCs whose ranged options are way inferior to their melee ones

[kinevon]

My archer had an item to let him fly. Never used it himself, but wound up using it on another PC during Year of the Shadow Lodge to let them fly when they needed to.

I am not sure if I replaced it, but it still came in handy that time.

[Pegastar]

There was also that Paizo Blog post awhile back about survival in PFS..it's not listed by level but has a lot of really useful items. The link is here.

[Wabajck]

The only big things I emphasize to players is to buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, because no ones expected to heal you with theirs. If you are a melee fighter and cant reach the target, have a way to fix that. You are a pathfinder and expected to be able to handle your own in the field. This means anticipating problems and answering them. For any weakness your character has there is bound to be a magic item to resolve that weakness.

[sieylianna]

Earl Gendron wrote:

Wow Jiggy, that list is pretty different from what I see around here putting notes about my level 10 ranger on your list below (note: a bunch are unneeded because he was a crossbow ranger:

He got this when he ran out of potions, somewhere around 5th level, and has only used 3 charges
did

Even if your only character is an archery ranger, you have been very fortunate.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Macon Bacon, Esquire wrote:

Earl Gendron wrote:

Wow Jiggy, that list is pretty different from what I see around here putting notes about my level 10 ranger on your list below (note: a bunch are unneeded because he was a crossbow ranger:

Emphasis mine.

Haha, I only used that terminology because the last time I was able to play him was 14 months ago... I was trying to just point out that the list isn't set in stone, and depends on builds. Melee fighters wouldn't have considered a Efficient Quiver and dozens of bolts to beat different types of DR, but would appreciate that potion of fly much more. I guess I didn't word my post very well, and thus I apoligize.

[Eelario]

Kristina Wang wrote:

There was also that Paizo Blog post awhile back about survival in PFS..it's not listed by level but has a lot of really useful items. The link is here.

That October blog post had me thinking about this thread even more (it's the same one I referenced earlier upthread).