Anyone else bored by this AP?


Shattered Star

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Liberty's Edge

I am just about to start RotRL again, as a DM.
I will use the Shatted Star locations as well, which I incorporated into the RotRL campaign.
Sheila is present at the Swallowtail festival, talking with Brodert about her fears of the Runelords rising again. I don't see, why these APs can't be played simultaneously.
I found a sequence of events, which hopefully works.

Playing these two APs together, makes the Shattered Star feel less a Dungeon AP, as players kind of jump between the APs...

I can write a list of the order of events, which Imcurrently plan to use.


i found a lot of information in here useful for CotCT

Silver Crusade

With the fifth book, I think I've finally hit a point where I know our Shattered Star is going to have to diverge from what's written to make it click with our groups.

Pretty much planning on replacing all of the Leng stuff in Nightmare Rift with something more grounded in Varisia. Probably keeping it on the Storval Plateau to get some focus on the Shoanti culture into the mix. Basically going to insert certain elements close to what can be found in Clash of the Kingslayers, dialed up a notch. Something to drive home just how horrific and colossal the weapons of the Runelords could get. :)


hmm i havent gotten mine yet. I live in alaska, It's like getting snail mail to the moon.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

With the fifth book, I think I've finally hit a point where I know our Shattered Star is going to have to diverge from what's written to make it click with our groups.

Pretty much planning on replacing all of the Leng stuff in Nightmare Rift with something more grounded in Varisia. Probably keeping it on the Storval Plateau to get some focus on the Shoanti culture into the mix. Basically going to insert certain elements close to what can be found in Clash of the Kingslayers, dialed up a notch. Something to drive home just how horrific and colossal the weapons of the Runelords could get. :)

I did mention how much I want you to write up a summary of your changes to this AP, did I? And stuff about Laori, of course. :p


Personally I'm really digging this AP. I'm not running it yet -- I feel like it spoils Rise of the Runelords enough that I wanted to run that first, but once that's done I will strongly consider this one if the group is interested.

Thus far (awaiting only the 6th book) I have no complaints whatsoever about the quality of any of the adventures. Kaer Maga is a personal highlight for me, but then Kaer Maga is my favorite place in Golarion and maybe my favorite fantasy city ever, so that' not surprising. The adventures are consistently excellent and provide a good mix of combat, exploration, and roleplaying (the roleplaying often coming at surprising times). In almost every AP (RotRL excepted) there has been at least one weak book, or at least a book notably weaker than the others, but so far Shattered Star has avoided that pitfall. And hey, I loves me some big ol' dungeons.

Initially I had the same complaint as some above in that I felt like the connecting tissue wasn't there between the books (which is a frequent issue with APs, IMO) but then I realized essentially what James Jacobs has said -- this is an AP about assembling pieces of an artifact and some of those pieces have been lost for 10,000 years -- how could there be a stronger connective tissue? The only nit I'd pick is that I'd have the PCs have to do research on where to go for the next piece rather than just know, but I can absolutely understand why they didn't do it that way and it will be easy enough to change if and when I run it.

I do admit I'm not super-keen on the obligatory Pathfinder involvement, because they're kind of jerks, but again, the writers have done an excellent job of making this an extremely easy fix for GMs to make. It's obvious too why they framed the AP that way in the first place, and I'm not sure I'll be able to come up with a better solution, just one more to my own taste.

So, big thumbs up from me, and I am not at all bored by it. In fact, it's shaping up to be one of my favorite APs!

Silver Crusade

magnuskn wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

With the fifth book, I think I've finally hit a point where I know our Shattered Star is going to have to diverge from what's written to make it click with our groups.

Pretty much planning on replacing all of the Leng stuff in Nightmare Rift with something more grounded in Varisia. Probably keeping it on the Storval Plateau to get some focus on the Shoanti culture into the mix. Basically going to insert certain elements close to what can be found in Clash of the Kingslayers, dialed up a notch. Something to drive home just how horrific and colossal the weapons of the Runelords could get. :)

I did mention how much I want you to write up a summary of your changes to this AP, did I? And stuff about Laori, of course. :p

Definitely doin'! Waiting for the last book to start on the heavy invasive surgery, but a lot of things have been taking shape already.

Cadrilkasta's minions are definitely getting expanded into a faction that'll come into play before book 5 at the very least, both to lead up to her and because it seems like a perfect fit, what with her being a blue and being inclined to sit around and lete others do her work for her. ;) (also playing with the idea of making her a descendant of Big K, but that may be a bit much)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:
Cadrilkasta's minions are definitely getting expanded into a faction that'll come into play before book 5 at the very least, both to lead up to her and because it seems like a perfect fit, what with her being a blue and being inclined to sit around and lete others do her work for her. ;) (also playing with the idea of making her a descendant of Big K, but that may be a bit much)

Honestly, I think it makes perfect sense that she be a descendant of Kazavon. The location, the color, it all practically screams it in my opinion.

Lantern Lodge

The plot keeps reminding me of one of the missions from Majesty the Kingdom Simulator. I'm very tempted to go through and reskin the AP to happen in Ardania and have the shards be pieces of Brashnard's Sphere of Ultimate Power, and keep off of the bigger villians in that series. Like have the Headless Repear dude serve the Lich Queen, and have the Tower Girl's be a rogue theives guild working with Ratmen agents of Rhoden, and having the aberations being the spawn of the likes of Urk-Shek or even Fervus or an infestation brought about by the Witch King.

Silver Crusade

Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Honestly, I think it makes perfect sense that she be a descendant of Kazavon. The location, the color, it all practically screams it in my opinion.

Yeah, it was her birthplace that made me raise an eyebrow. :)

I wouldn't want to turn her into Kazavon 2.0, but there's still a lot to play with there!

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

This is now my second favourite AP. Runelords is my number one, but I really love this one. Sure dungeon crawls can be boring but its all in the DM and so far this one has been really good to run or really reads wll, and my players seem to love it. I also love the difficulty - easy(ish) ot start then growing in difficulty - part 5 reads like a very hard adventure, can't wait for 6.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm partway through GMing #3. So far I don't have a problem with the heavy dungeon crawls (and it is certainly easier to run than Kingmaker, our previous AP!) But everything outside the dungeons feels prefunctory and disconnected, and that's making the whole thing feel soulless to me.

Four points that were particularly a problem for me:

In #1, Sheila Heidmarch's actions make no sense to me from one end to the other. Once she realizes the PCs have a shard of the Sihedron, she...is too busy to bother with it? We're supposed to assume both that being a Pathfinder is sufficient motivation for the PCs to pursue the shards relentlessly, and that it's not at all a motivation for a Venture-Captain? She'll give 8000+ gp worth of stones to a beginning party, but she can't be bothered to send someone with them....

She comes across as a cardboard cutout, not a person. But as soon as you try to make her a person it messes up the AP. What she and the senior Pathfinders would actually do is likely NOT to leave the PCs in the driver's seat. So it's a quandary. (My player relieved me of some of the problem by refusing to play Pathfinders.)

In #2, everything points, emotionally, at Korvosa. Sorshen is buried there. The Gray Maidens are from there. It ought to point at *going* to Korvosa--but instead you are supposed to ignore all that and go elsewhere. I found this made the PCs feel really detached, like all the Korvosa stuff was just stage dressing. The Gray Maidens deserved more.

In #3, the Therassic Spire's motivations again make no sense. We did something we shouldn't and need to hide it, so we...shut down, alerting the ENTIRE CITY to the fact that we're up to something? Then we scatter hints around to get everyone's interest up? And then, we hire strangers to rescue our team we sent to get the Uber Artifact, and casually mention that the strangers can keep the Uber Artifact when they find it?

It plays as a transparent cover for "We just need you to do this, so do it, okay?" Which is something I remember from 1970's dungeon crawls, but not with fondness.

And looking ahead, #6 requires the PCs to be so bloody unconcerned that they will let strangers get their hands on the Shards, in a public venue where anyone could try to teleport in and snatch them--and then that works out terribly. It's not a good idea to fiat that the PCs are stupid and then punish them for stupidity.

The dungeons are pretty and well designed and (except for the seugathi) well balanced. But there's nothing holding them together, and I'm finding that boring and somewhat alienating. I think they would work better as drop-in additions to another AP. The motivations driving each episode are like placeholders for some real but campaign-specific motivations, and inserting them into something else might make those motivations apparent. I haven't figured out which AP yet, though.

Contributor

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Mary Yamato wrote:
And looking ahead, #6 requires the PCs to be so bloody unconcerned that they will let strangers get their hands on the Shards, in a public venue where anyone could try to teleport in and snatch them--and then that works out terribly. It's not a good idea to fiat that the PCs are stupid and then punish them for stupidity.

Your post has lots of solid points, but I'm afraid I have to take exception to some of your assumptions regarding the opening events of Book 6, and maybe in doing so I can give you a more positive outlook on those upcoming sequences, because I think you're working on a couple of key misconceptions. Simply put, the events of the first chapter *can't* be triggered by any acts of stupidity on the part of the PCs or anyone else. Maybe you just haven't read the passages fully, but hopefully this post will help once you do.

The "strangers" you reference are among the most powerful and famous NPCs of the character's generation, and all allies. This ceremony gives PCs a chance to not only rub elbows with some of Golarion's most revered spellcasters, scholars, and leaders, but have themselves and their deeds recognized by those who are now their peers. They may be only recently convened, but these NPCs should hardly be unknown to the PCs, and their vignettes should give you the materials you need to impart some familiarity--and trust--of these NPCs to your players (there's a whole section that details these interactions and their purpose over the course of days, turning strangers into friends).

If presented as "OK now you just hand the shards over to a bunch nobodies you've ever heard of before," then you are doing yourself and your players a disservice. This ceremony and meeting is the literary equivalent of the Council of Elrond...and even a relatively-naive Frodo knew he was in the presence of some of Middle Earth's greatest movers and shakers, and this should be played similarly (and the PCs are hardly naive). It isn't that the PCs are required "to be so bloody unconcerned." It is quite the opposite: the big guns have been called in to do whatever the PCs request of them, and they hold the PCs in equal stead for the deeds they have accomplished. They are working *with* and *for* the PCs, and that's how it should be played.

The assumption also precludes that the PCs have any say in the matter--which they most certainly do. But the adventure also assumes the PCs take this council as the most reasonable course of action. Your home game mileage may vary.

Your second point regarding the public venue is a little short-sighted by presuming that "just anyone" could teleport in and snatch away the shards in the guarded, high-alert presence of such powerhouses as Aram Zey (wizard 11), Bevaluu Zimantiu (cleric 10), Jyronn Imikar (cleric 13), Koriah Azmeren (ranger 11), Leis Nivlandis (wizard 11), Sabriyya Kalmeralm (rogue 12) and Toth Bhreachr (wizard 15, and in control of every golem in the city), not to mention the fully-rested-and-healed PCs themselves (all 15th-level), who are likewise expected to take all proper precautions, likely including some liberal applications of forbiddance and other warding magics. I can hardly think of a more secure space on Golarion on that day, even out in public, but it is a fantastic opportunity for high tension and drama.

And I suppose this is ultimately why I write: the NPCs are there to help the PCs, because without them, the PCs simply don't have the power capable of reassembling the Sihedron on their own, and they risk wiping out the spellcasting ability of any participating party members who are spellcasters (see page 11 for details on the magical expenditure and drain that takes place for PCs participating in the reforging ceremony).

PCs are *much* better off taking the assistance. In fact, I'd say they were "stupid" to do otherwise, because if PCs insist on doing it themselves, they'll be useless for the defense of the city, which is *exactly* why these powerful spellcasters have offered their services: to keep the PCs in action in case things go wrong..

And let's not forget that *none* of the actions you describe (handing over the shards, accepting aid from "strangers," or the presumed "fiat" employed to trigger these actions) are in any way responsible for the cataclysm that follows in the wake of the shards' reforging. In other words, the "punishment" you presume for the PCs' "stupidity" isn't a direct result of the strangers' aid or these people getting their hands on the shards. If the shards are reforged, these events happen *regardless* of whether the PCs recruit their own spellcasters to perform the ceremony in super-secret or the suggested course of action takes place. And there's the rub and the core of the rebuttal. You're assigning false presumptions to the PCs' actions and false consequences of those actions when the events of the adventure are triggered.

In closing, PCs trusting famous, powerful, allied NPCs who welcome them as peers and offer their assistance should hardly be cast as "stupid," and nor are the PCs "punished" for any of these presumptions--the same event occurs whether the PCs do the deed themselves or have their allies do it for them, and I think a more careful reading will give you the key to successfully running this portion of the adventure as it is intended without anyone feeling either stupid or punished.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

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::stands next to Hodge wearing an "I'm With Stupid T-Shirt"::

Spoiler:

But, seriously, I agree with everything this man says! It's all in how you interpret what's laid out for you in the adventure. Brandon writes awesome, intricately connected stuff. He always has excellent reasons behind the content he puts together for his adventures. The premise for the end-game of Shattered Star is no exception.


Neil Spicer wrote:

::stands next to Hodge wearing an "I'm With Stupid T-Shirt"::

** spoiler omitted **

i just wanted to say what an awesome job you have done for your chapters, especially Isle of Empty Eyes and The Empty Throne, and yes i agree 100% Dead Heart of Xin is an instant classic, right up there with Sound of a Thousand Screams and Shadows of Gallowspire (as of yet i don't have Rasputin Must Die! so i can't comment on that one:) soon my precious! soon!


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Brandon Hodge wrote:


If presented as "OK now you just hand the shards over to a bunch nobodies you've ever heard of before," then you are doing yourself and your players a disservice. This ceremony and meeting is the literary equivalent of the Council of Elrond...and even a relatively-naive Frodo knew he was in the presence of some of Middle Earth's greatest movers and shakers, and this should be played similarly.

Thanks for the comments; they're very helpful.

I don't think I could run it that way, though, because there is a huge difference in my mind between the Council of Elrond and the Decimvirate of the Pathfinders. By and large, the Council of Elrond represents good people who are trying to save the world, and Frodo can reasonably know this.

That is just not how the Pathfinders' Society comes across in the material we've played so far (specifically in _Council of Thieves_). They are not altruists. They are Victorian gentleman-adventurers looking for fame, glory, and knowledge for themselves and their organization. And the secrecy of the Decimvirate can very easily be interpreted as a broad hint that whatever one may think of the rest of the organization, the high leadership are something more sinister. My player says that _Seekers of Secrets_ reinforces this view further (I haven't read it myself). It is therefore hard to expect the PCs to trust them. It seems rather likely that the Sihedron is the key to *becoming a Runelord* and that is one heck of a temptation to put in the Decimvirate's way.

My other concern is that if I play up the presence of abundant high-level good guys willing and eager to help the PCs, then...they would help the PCs throughout, which we all know is an undesirable outcome. But the alternative is that they are eager to help reassemble the Sihedron but not to deal with any of the adventuring, and to someone suspicious-minded like my player that reeks of ulterior motives.

Tolkien got away with having the Council sit back because the Council members are wise, but not mundanely powerful in quite the way that high-level D&D characters are. Even then there is a lot of in-book puzzlement over whey they don't help more....

Basically, I feel I'm caught between "The Pathfinders and allies are good guys who want to help" (in which case, why don't they help more, and won't that bog down the game?) and "The Pathfinders and allies are sinister and enigmatic, so better do this ourselves" (in which case, why do we take their bad advice at a critical moment?)

Note that this is a problem about feelings. It may be perfectly logical for events to play out as you describe. But if my player then resigns the campaign in disgust, the fact that it was logical is cold comfort, as the game is ruined. In my estimation the events shown would ruin the game for him (and would for me, if positions were reversed). (I ran it by him, so I am pretty sure of this assessment.) Mileage of course varies.

We get bit by this every time the AP threat is really big (Rise of the Runelords, Second Darkness, Age of Worms; and Reign of Winter looks like another one). The only thing I know to do about it is to keep high-level trustworthy allies off stage as much as I possibly can, as their presence will either break suspension of disbelief or the game contract that requires the PCs to be the ones doing stuff. Shattered Star #6 puts them on stage making a key (bad) decision; this just doesn't work for me.

Contributor

Mary Yamato wrote:
My other concern is that if I play up the presence of abundant high-level good guys willing and eager to help the PCs, then...they would help the PCs throughout, which we all know is an undesirable outcome. But the alternative is that they are eager to help reassemble the Sihedron but not to deal with any of the adventuring, and to someone suspicious-minded like my player that reeks of ulterior motives.

Again, I think there are some basic misconceptions here. And Mary, please know I'm not arguing with you--I'm trying to help you prepare for a game you intend to run, and give you as deep of an understanding of the various components I feel you are misinterpreting as possible.

I *do* understand the reaction you or your PCs may have toward the Pathfinders and the organization's motives as they've been presented in some products (though look around regarding Seeker of Secrets--I believe it may have been retconned away or Jacobs has condemned its content). I get that. But the PCs aren't dealing with the Decemvirate here. The Sihedron Council has some famous Pathfinders on it, but certainly no Decemvirate members that I'm aware of, and the entire council isn't made up of Pathfinders or even those necessarily or particularly sympathetic to their aims--which is why the argument breaks out over the fate of the shards. These are Golarion's movers and shakers who have arrived to the call of very important events, moreso that the Pathfinder leadership showing up to manipulate PCs into destroying Magnimar. It is important, and when important events occur, important people are called.

And all that goes without questioning the PC's initial buy-in or investment with the Pathfinder from the get-go of signing on with this adventure path. If they bought in early and accepted the assignment as loyal Pathfinders, why are they only questioning their organization's motives now that the job's almost done? And if you sidestepped the Pathfinder elements early on for the concerns you illustrated, then why are you forcing them on your players only now at the end? If that's the case, don't make the council quite as Pathfinder heavy, or shift some names around.

Keep another thing in mind, and this is where I'll take part of Neil's compliment: the mechanics of the adventure line up perfectly with what the story needs for the PCs to properly navigate their involvement with these powerful NPCs. There are 2 things at play:

1. The powerful spellcasters who take place int he ceremony lose their spellcasting ability right when they need it the most: when Xin's palace rises and Magnimar is threatened with the tsunami's destruction. They are out of commission for the first day, period, and pretty helpless to save their own city, and have to rely on the PCs to do so, rushing out to strike at the heart of the threat.

2. Once the PCs save the city from the tsunami and initial attack, Xin's forces continue coming in smattering waves. The high-level NPCs *can't* help the PCs throughout or deal with the adventuring *not* because they have ulterior motives, but because they have their hands full staving off waves of mechanical beasts and the aftermath of a destroyed city, while the PCs are sent in as a sort of "strike force" to try to strike at the heart of what is causing this attack and destruction. That's a pretty important element of this whole thing.

3. (Yeah I said 2 but here's another. Hahaha) The PCs have several levels on most of these PCs, and none are more powerful than they. So while it *is* an impressive group line-up here at the council, it isn't like they've got some 20th-level archmage granting them wishes or anything. Mostly, these folks just watched their home city get destroyed by the waves below, with the threat of more destruction from Xin's army and foul denizens of the deep, so I think they can be excused for stepping aside to help their people in a time of dire need while the PCs--the most powerful people in the room--head to the heart of the threat to destroy it with their shiny new artifact that the council *happily hands immediately over after restoring it.*

As it is written, this doesn't give the magic-wielding NPCs a chance to outshine PCs when they are needed (because they're depowered and it is all up to the PCs) *or* adventure in their stead (because they have a city to protect from attack). So from my perspective, there's little room for an interpretation of antagonistic manipulation or ulterior motives, though the more you enter these sessions with that intention in mind, the more you'll impart it into the game in way it wasn't designed or intended. I spent a lot of time crafting these events to cover all the bases, and, on that level, or at least the level we're discussing, I think it succeeds in a fairly airtight manner given the listed concerns.

I hope this helps a little more!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I guess Mary is worried that the players may not even want to hand off the shards to the NPC's, on the mere suspicion that they might be up to something bad. Although unless I am misremembering something, the module deals with that possibility on its first pages.


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One of this AP's strength's and weaknesses is the lack of clearly defined non-combat RP elements. There are suggestions, but not a ton.

The great thing about this, and why I consider it a strength, is that it gives imaginative GM's and players a really great opportunity to craft a phenomenal story that is not just a dungeon crawl, as some have complained about, but also a bit more. See my post on how we did Oriana in our game as an example.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pr0y?Oriana

The game has great characters, and there are plenty of opportunity to pick up followers, enemy parties, and plenty of others just looking for some way to strike back at you, from the shard of lust onwards. Which is funny, because due to my Redeemer Paladin's nature, we had at least a few recurring enemies, as well as allies throughout which benefited us. We called in a ton of favors as well towards the end. It made discovering the wonders of Xin's palace really interesting, as well as fun. It's interesting to see someone who benefited from ou during a previous AP come back to give you a hand, either as a follower or to provide some sort of logistic support. That's how we really kept the AP's connected to one another.

But, I think the lack of focus (or rather the loose reins the game gives you with RPing outside of dungeons) can be a negative if you also don't have an inventive or imaginative GM who can roll with the dice, so to speak. We worked on a few things before and after games with our GM, so in general if someone did something a bit out of the ordinary there was great opportunity to move in a different direction rather than just fluster the GM and make him unsure of what to do with himself. Granted, our games are usually much longer because of this, but it's fun and definitely worth it.

One of the things that makes this AP so damn good is the characters themselves, the enemies usually. Xin himself seems more of a tragic figure rather than an evil one, which I love because it makes it so much harder for us to kill the guy. Not only that, but the dude is really a wealth of information and knowledge collected over the millennia. Not only is he an Azlanter, he built an Empire, oversaw a masterful form of magic, created the Sihedron, and truly believed in the seven virtues. It makes you wonder if he's really irredeemable or not. And it makes you question if victory against Xin is really the best thing for the world. Xin's victory could be the dawning of a new age, a new unified Thassilon stretching as far north as the Lands of the Linnorms and south into Cheliax, one where we have an eternal god-emperor of sorts in Xin.

The question that you really have to ask yourself is if Xin wins, does it become obvious his Xinsanity is only temporary or permanent? Xin is tragic, but not necessarily evil. And he holds a wealth of magic and technology that could rival anything the world could spit forth (outside of Numeria of course).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I handled the "Why doesn't Sheila help more?" by folding in the whole Risen Rune PFS plot. Basically while the group is hunting the Sihedron, the Varisian Pathfinders are working to stop the return of...

PFS Spoiler:
Runelord Krune and Lissala


Kevin Mack wrote:
Can only speak for myself but I'm currently running this adventure and having a blast. Admitadly I did modify things slightly by having a second group after the shards which I find helps link all the books together more. As for the society I actually find them a lot more likable in this than in say Seeker of secrets (Admitadly it depends on what part of the society concept you despice.)

As in.. a rival group? I am totally doing that, I friggin' love you for the idea.

In fact.. in my campaign I'm about to run, the players are working for Karzoug (Ruins of Pathfinder setting).. so I know JUST who to use! Hue hue hue!


James Jacobs wrote:
Shattered Star is in one regard somewhat experimental—it DOESN'T have a "timer" or a big bad end guy or plot that must be defeated by the end. That's something we've pretty much done in every Adventure Path, and there's been some requests by folks to do an AP where that's not the case. Shattered Star is the response.

But, but, there is! It just takes being willing to mod the AP if you meet it though.

Spoiler:
In book 3, the prophecy given by Augustille talks directly about the dragon Cadrilska (totally messed that up). In book 5 it even talks about her "draconic metabolism" essentially overriding the shard's curse and getting her back in the game presumably to fulfill the prophecy. Even the scripted greeting has her thanking the PCs that she brought them the rest of the shards so she wants them anyway. So, if your group tarries for a few months in-game, that's all the impetus needed to have a single overarching plot before she comes looking for your shards. There IS imminent doom. The AP just puts you on the path to beating it before it presents itself rather than being entirely reactionary like Rise was with the goblin raid.

Apart from that it's not obvious by any means. I even missed it on my first read through and subsequent pitch to my group. On my second read I picked up on these few key sentences scattered across books and it clicked.

Man, why do I feel like resurrecting threads?

But yeah, my group has already had about a month or so of in-game downtime. If they tarry much longer that something will come hunting them.


Buri can you explain to me how the prophecy given by Augustille talks directly about Cadilska? I know which part refers to her, i just don't know how the PCs are going to figure it out.


They have no way short of divinations to figure that out.

Spoiler:
The only thing slowing her down is the shard's curse which she will overcome in time. The point is there is a looming doom to the game. There's a thing to fight or else the world burns, essentially. Even with taking a lot of down time my group as reached Augustille's prophecy. They will likely finish book 4 before that timer expires, if their current pace holds. If they take a long interlude between 4 and 5, then I may just have them face her at the beginning of the book rather than later. As is, they could play through the AP as published. Who knows. Even if they're lazy and she kills them there's always the failure condition in book 6 you get to jump to. It's pretty hard to 'ruin' a campaign, imo.


@Buri

Book 5 spoiler:

Yes i know that the only thing keeping her from seeking the shard of pride (which the PCs have) is the curse of the shard of sloth, my question is how is she going to overcome it and how much time she needs to accomplish that (if she can overcome it at all).


Spoiler:
In her script when she meets the party, the book describes how her "draconic metabolism" hasn't spurned her to action and implies it will eventually catch up to the curse. The time mentioned how long this takes is a couple weeks or months.


Hmmm my players have already took quite a lot of downtime (now about midway through book 3), what are your suggestions for eigher changing how book 5 is run or her coming after the PCs?


You have to adjust the power level of the party as what makes sense to you and your group because you're likely going to face her early. For example, I do double WBL but have done so since the beginning of the AP. If you're adverse to rewriting entire sections of the AP just have her run into the party at the beginning of book 5 and narrate that when they approach they see a blue dragon burst out of the ground kind of thing. Then leave the story rewards in tact through book 5 and maybe add some extras to make up for the lack of encounter XP.


@Buri
Ok i am having trouble understanding your respone so i will break it down.

Buri wrote:
You have to adjust the power level of the party as what makes sense to you and your group because you're likely going to face her early.

Is that for the case that the party takes SO long that she comes after them before book 5?

Buri wrote:
For example, I do double WBL but have done so since the beginning of the AP.

Nothing i didn't understand here just a question, the AP (at least up to half 3rd book) has about double WBL in treasure (if you don't miss anything), are you doing double that?

Buri wrote:
If you're adverse to rewriting entire sections of the AP just have her run into the party at the beginning of book 5 and narrate that when they approach they see a blue dragon burst out of the ground kind of thing. Then leave the story rewards in tact through book 5 and maybe add some extras to make up for the lack of encounter XP.

I don't do xp so there is no issue with the lack of XP, what i don't understand is how would there be a lack of XP, does she kills anyone when she leaves? or are you worrying that the party will just take the shards and leave?

If it's the second be not afraid, my party will surely raid the complex for various reasons (mostly loot).


I don't think they should necessarily face her. She's a blue dragon after all. They might face an advanced General Storm and other giant slaves she kept, or they might face something else.
But a Blue Dragon? Not likely right off the bat. You could still keep facing her to book V, but in Book 5 she finally gets so damn aggravated at the party beating her constantly she finally faces them, her mind influenced by her greed for the shards and the curse of sloth more than her blue dragon senses.


I'm probably a bit bit early here for a truly informed opinion, but our group absolutely loved Book 1 and we're currently having a lot of fun with Mike Shel's Curse of the Lady's Light. Maybe it's the group I have and their odd cast of characters, but this one seems more lighthearted and there's nothing wrong with that. I think it is a vastly underrated AP. Kudos and more Mike Shel work please, that guy truly "get's it".


Definitely suited to a 'different' sort of character...a chance to let loose some of the more quirky builds


My group is currently at book 5 (about halfway through) and to tell you the truth the parts that really tire me out as a DM were books 3 and 5 so far.


Mid book 3 currently (the party just entered the dungeon under the Therassic Spire):
As I have some new players (haven't had much experience playing RPG's before starting Shattered Star), I'm liking the pace and layout of the AP thus far.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This is a funny AP. All the individual adventures are fine, ranging from OK to great. There are no Memories of Darkness or Cities of Seven Spears here. But as a whole ... this path is just ... so ... forgettable.

Every other AP has something that gets me excited every time I think of it (notwithstanding that some fail to deliver the excitement). RotRL? Welcome to Golarion! CotCT? Oh boy oh boy Korvosa, Scarwall, Laori Vaus! SD? DROOOOW. LoF? Genies and planes and I love planes! CoT? Cheliax, baby! KM? Well it's KINGmaker, hello! Carrion Crown? Horror, the horror! Serpent's Skull? Lost Cities of Serpents and Gold! Jade Regent? Konnichiwa! Skulls'n'Shackles? ARRRR MATEY! Reign of Winter? Ra-ra-ra-sputin! Lover of the Russian queen! WotR? EPIXXX DEMONZ! Mummy's Mask? Mummies and sand and sphinxes and pharaohs!

Shattered Star? Erm... dungeons! Lots of. So original!

Perhaps if the "Sequel to Varisia APs" tangent was turned up to eleven and made it something you really should play after Rise, Curse and SD ... well, then it wouldn't sell at all.


Sorry Gorbacz, but you seem to be ignoring the rather obvious themes of Ancient Thassilon, the Runelords themselves plus a healthy splash of Lovecraft. To each his own though.

Dark Archive

Would this AP combine well with another?

I ran RotRL and CotCT together many years ago, and I was wondering about whether this might combine with Second Darkness.

Or possibly another - especially if the individual modules are quite disjoint.

Richard

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I'm using slow XP progression to run this AP concurrently with RotRL. Later on I may dip into CotCT. I started the campaign by running Godsmouth Heresy.

Shattered Star is the spine of the storyline. I have the events from RotRL and CotCT are happening at the same time as Shattered Star - and I'm only using select parts of that AP that complement how I'm adapting Shattered Star (for example, the Caves of Chaos was a sidequest, and that was pretty much it for Burnt Offerings - however, I'll be using almost all of Skinsaw Murders between Shards of Sin and Curse of the Lady's Light). My assumption is that there are other 'local heroes' from Sandpoint who are exploring Thistletop - the results of which will ultimately come to the attention of Sheila Heidmarch and the PCs.

So far this is bringing a richer level of mystery to Shattered Star as the PC's try to uncover the secrets of the Runelords and the sihedron. It's also fun for me to adapt. In addition, it gives my players some sandboxy options (i.e. one of the PCs is from Korvosa - she keeps hearing about the unrest in her home city... so at some point I expect her to say 'let's take a break from questing... let's see what's going on')

So far everyone seems to be loving it (we're getting close to the end of Shards of Sin)

richard develyn wrote:

Would this AP combine well with another?

I ran RotRL and CotCT together many years ago, and I was wondering about whether this might combine with Second Darkness.

Or possibly another - especially if the individual modules are quite disjoint.

Richard

Dark Archive

That sounds pretty clever, actually.

Unfortunately for me the group I'll be running is the same group that previously completed RotRL and CotCT!

Richard

Dark Archive

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I considered adding Second Darkness into the mix when I started thinking about having the events of other APs run in parallel. I didn't go too deep down that road with SD - RotRL was an obvious fit, and CotCT drives towards some major Thassilonian content towards the end that could be fun to integrate near the end. So to keep things more focused, I decided to keep things focused (if you can call it that) on weaving the 3 APs.

Having said that, I think there are opportunities for linking the two. There's a Vancaskerkin presence in part 1 of both adventures; there are certainly allusions to the drow in Shards of Sin. There could be a concurrent drow threat/ticking clock as the PCs hunt for the shards. One of the shards could be in the possession of the drow later in the adventure. It think it would take some creativity - but likely no more so than what you accomplished threading RotRL and CotCT together (which sounds like it must have been an awesome campaign!)

In fact, integrating Second Darkness might give Shattered Star an increased sense of urgency that would amp the adrenaline level of the campaign.

richard develyn wrote:

That sounds pretty clever, actually.

Unfortunately for me the group I'll be running is the same group that previously completed RotRL and CotCT!

Richard


The party I run it for are non-good. It means they have interacted in non combat ways with lots of the encounters and made it much better and fun to play

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