Weakest monsters in Pathfinder?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I am curious, wuich are the weakest monsters for their CR in all 3 bestiaries?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Were-pizzas. Once they change into their pizza form they can be picked up and eaten.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

A more serious answer is: It depends on the party facing the monster. A CR 8 Nabasu Demon will have a field day against a group of fighters by using Mass Hold Person. That same ability is mostly a joke against a group of paladins, clerics, and monks.

Likewise, a Red Dragon can be nasty against almost any party. Except the one that has Resist Energy (fire) and Protection From Energy (fire) up on every party member...


Nicos wrote:
I am curious, wuich are the weakest monsters for their CR in all 3 bestiaries?

Gnolls are a pretty weak one. They're CR 1 but are lackluster next to warrior 2.


Tarrasque is a CR25 that can be taken down effortlessly by a level 4 character.

Treerazer can at least fly and hit incorporeals.


Ashiel wrote:
Nicos wrote:
I am curious, wuich are the weakest monsters for their CR in all 3 bestiaries?
Gnolls are a pretty weak one. They're CR 1 but are lackluster next to warrior 2.

Coincidentally, I made this thread tinking about gnolls.


core Rhakshasa is another candidate

no real offensive ability outside of spells with reflex saves attached

all defensive and can be easily slain by a character who uses an oil of bless weapon on a piercing weapon. this could easily be a longspear or dagger.

Tarrasque and Gnolls are jokes too

another monster that is a complete joke is the wolf, one weak attack, poor trip chance, can be reliably dropped by a single greatsword or glaive swing from a fighter.

1st level warriors are pretty weak too.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Kobolds. A single kobold, outside of their lair and without their traps, will be killed very easily.


CalebTGordan wrote:

Kobolds. A single kobold, outside of their lair and without their traps, will be killed very easily.

even when kobolds leave thier lairs and traps, they still have plenty of consumable alchemical goods to annoy you with. and they are essentially the mcguyver of the low level humanoid monsters. kobolds are never alone. they breed quickly and grow up quickly. when you say a single kobold. there isn't a such thing as a lone kobold, unless he was the last member of the lair you haven't slain. which seems highly unlikely.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lumiere Dawnbringer wrote:
CalebTGordan wrote:

Kobolds. A single kobold, outside of their lair and without their traps, will be killed very easily.

even when kobolds leave thier lairs and traps, they still have plenty of consumable alchemical goods to annoy you with. and they are essentially the mcguyver of the low level humanoid monsters. kobolds are never alone. they breed quickly and grow up quickly. when you say a single kobold. there isn't a such thing as a lone kobold, unless he was the last member of the lair you haven't slain. which seems highly unlikely.

Last I checked, kobolds still get NPC gear, have a +1 AC from size, +1 AC from natural, +1 AC from Dex, and a +5 minimum bonus to Stealth. Due to their small stature they can gain cover from almost anything (a footstool would be enough to get cover, whereas it'd barely cover a human's knees). Their strength penalty is only an issue if they're not being kobolds and fighting in melee (the only kobolds who do that should be kobold tanks, whose ACs with shields and armor are through the roof). Instead, kobolds are more likely to fight with ranged weapons like crossbows (no strength penalty and can be fired while prone, adding another +4 to their AC vs ranged attacks) and with alchemical goods (strength and size mean nothing to setting your foes on fire, if anything they excel at it).

Kobolds aren't weak unless they're just being intentionally dense. By dense, I mean insisting on running up to enemies who are larger, stronger, and possibly more skilled than you, in an attempt to use the combat style you are absolutely the most ill-suited for in an attempt to fight your foe. This would be the equivalent to a wizard insisting to run up and face an ogre in melee while using a dagger.

If anything, kobolds are top-tier for their CR. At CR 1/4, kobolds are deadly. Truly a monster of nightmares for PCs. Unless the PCs encounter them in a flat barren wasteland with no where for the kobolds to use any of their natural benefits, they could still wreak havoc on PCs with a combination of clever tactics, strong ACs, and alchemical weaponry since they are 1st level non-heroic NPC classed creatures with NPC gear.

Nicos wrote:
Coincidentally, I made this thread tinking about gnolls.

Gnolls are a joke for their CR. They are practically free experience points. They're 400 XP each but honestly only worth may 200 XP each (or 135 XP even). What I did to remedy this in my games was strip gnolls of their racial HD and made them into a race, giving them +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, low-light vision, scent, +1 natural armor, and a bite attack. Now my gnolls are leveled like any other humanoid, through classes. So when you meet a CR 1 gnoll, it's probably a Gnoll Warrior 3.


The poison frog (Bestiary 1, pg 135) is pretty darn pathetic for a supposedly CR 1/2 monster.


Whoa!

What makes a Terrasque so easily defeated?! How can a level four character hope to beat a CR25 creature?

I thought those guys were build to be end-game world eaters!


Vicon wrote:

Whoa!

What makes a Terrasque so easily defeated?! How can a level four character hope to beat a CR25 creature?

I thought those guys were build to be end-game world eaters!

I'm not sure which 4th level build they're talking about. I know in 3.x you could kill the Tarrasque pretty easily with a lot of stuff way before 20th level. In Pathfinder the Tarrasque has been buffed and even more immunities added, yet it can still be destroyed by a 20th level party with very little effort (a 20th level Fighter or Ranger can easily murder the creature without any real problems, and it's not hard to prevent the Tarrasque from springing back to life because it can die {but comes back to life later due to its special regeneration} and then animate dead robs it of its special abilities {and its special regeneration}).

Solars are much more formidable opponents at CR 23 (2 ranks below the Tarrasque's silly CR), as is a single Pit Fiend (CR 20).


Any monster in the book when found alone and unprepared, due to action economy. Even monsters supposed to be awesome and terrifying, like dragons, go down like chumps when surprised by a full party, due to only one or two actions per round, compared to 4-8 for a normal party (or 10 for the group I typically GM for, 7 PCs, 1 animal companion and 2 followers).


Most of the low CR multiple HD humanoids are pretty mediocre including the Gnoll and the Bugbear. They aren't too bad when you start piling NPC class levels on them or even PC levels but they tend to be pretty fragile and over cost relative to their threat level.

Honestly I often am frustrated by the default Giant Humanoids due to their extremely low saves. They hit hard and have lots of HPs but can be vanquished using pretty low level reflex and will save effects. Ogres I don't mind as much due to them being relatively low CR but Hill Giants are definitely frustrating to use.


A 5th level kobold warrior with non elite NPC gear/ability scores is a CR2 creature with 35 HP and a budget for 2400GP in gear.

I built one with an archer in mind, with a masterwork short bow it has rapid shot and deadly aim and point blank shot, giving it a +7/+7 to hit dealing 1d4+3 damage. Not too bad TBH. Kobolds are really good for their CR.

A crossbow build might even be more dangerous, since it can eliminate that strength penalty. At the same level its +9/+9 to hit and deals 1d6+1 with the light crossbow (rapid reload replaces deadly aim)

These are very respectable to hit and damage from a CR 2 enemy, especially since it uses a 13+level bonus as its primary stat. In fact these numbers would be decent for a PC with 15 point buy and the same CR.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Lumiere Dawnbringer wrote:

core Rhakshasa is another candidate

no real offensive ability outside of spells with reflex saves attached

all defensive and can be easily slain by a character who uses an oil of bless weapon on a piercing weapon. this could easily be a longspear or dagger.

Tarrasque and Gnolls are jokes too

another monster that is a complete joke is the wolf, one weak attack, poor trip chance, can be reliably dropped by a single greatsword or glaive swing from a fighter.

1st level warriors are pretty weak too.

You extoll the cunning of the kobold, but not the Rakshasa? These are stealthy mindreading shapechangers with amazing social skills. If they do want to deal with you personally, they'll strike while wearing a face you trust, blast you with lightning, and disappear into the shadows (invisibility doesn't hurt) until they want to do it again. They probably have minions too, much like kobolds don't come alone.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Lumiere Dawnbringer wrote:

core Rhakshasa is another candidate

no real offensive ability outside of spells with reflex saves attached

all defensive and can be easily slain by a character who uses an oil of bless weapon on a piercing weapon. this could easily be a longspear or dagger.

Tarrasque and Gnolls are jokes too

another monster that is a complete joke is the wolf, one weak attack, poor trip chance, can be reliably dropped by a single greatsword or glaive swing from a fighter.

1st level warriors are pretty weak too.

You extoll the cunning of the kobold, but not the Rakshasa? These are stealthy mindreading shapechangers with amazing social skills. If they do want to deal with you personally, they'll strike while wearing a face you trust, blast you with lightning, and disappear into the shadows (invisibility doesn't hurt) until they want to do it again. They probably have minions too, much like kobolds don't come alone.

the minions of the Rhakshasa would add to the level of the encounter. and wearing a face you trust, only helps until the first hostile action is taken. and such an aura can be countered by arcane sight. the invisibility has dozens of counters.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Lumiere, be cautious, you're getting into the Schrodinger party mindset.

Any monster can be good if played to their strength. Admittedly, some are more powerful for their CRs than others, but that doesn't change the fact that they can be good.

A Raskshasha is a Caster monster and should be played as such. Take a Wizard of a level equal to the Rakshasha, and put him against a CR appropriate party, and the Wizard will have just as much trouble as the Rakshasha does, especially if you want to play the Wizard/Rakshasha as in your face brutes like some people wish.

A Rakshasha is a boss-type creature. They shouldn't be played as minions, as that isn't their role.


Ashiel wrote:
Vicon wrote:

Whoa!

What makes a Terrasque so easily defeated?! How can a level four character hope to beat a CR25 creature?

I thought those guys were build to be end-game world eaters!

I'm not sure which 4th level build they're talking about. I know in 3.x you could kill the Tarrasque pretty easily with a lot of stuff way before 20th level. In Pathfinder the Tarrasque has been buffed and even more immunities added, yet it can still be destroyed by a 20th level party with very little effort (a 20th level Fighter or Ranger can easily murder the creature without any real problems, and it's not hard to prevent the Tarrasque from springing back to life because it can die {but comes back to life later due to its special regeneration} and then animate dead robs it of its special abilities {and its special regeneration}).

Solars are much more formidable opponents at CR 23 (2 ranks below the Tarrasque's silly CR), as is a single Pit Fiend (CR 20).

It's probably a build that uses Dust of Sneezing and Choking to stun-lock the Terrasque.


Brian Bachman wrote:
Any monster in the book when found alone and unprepared, due to action economy. Even monsters supposed to be awesome and terrifying, like dragons, go down like chumps when surprised by a full party, due to only one or two actions per round, compared to 4-8 for a normal party (or 10 for the group I typically GM for, 7 PCs, 1 animal companion and 2 followers).

I dunno.

I would change that first sentence to "Any monster in the book when played wrong".
Said dragon that gets surprised and caught unaware and unprepared by a party set out to slay it, and possible in an environment not quite to his advantage (like inside a cave) will not stick around to fight those adventurers. It will flee. Then prepare and then strike at them when they're unprepared.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Weakest monsters in Pathfinder? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.