Alternative progressions for tiers.


Mythic Adventures Playtest General Discussion

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The achivement based tier 'exp' system doesn't really work for me. I don't like the idea the players can 'farm' bizarre achivements to unlock higher tiers.

Personally I hope they offer alternative systems. Say a simple 2 character levels = 1 mythic level.

Or a milestone mythic system that is more tied to story event progression. Say like the Heroes Journey, or other narrative devices.

I rarely track exp exactly rather count session and major events for my level up milemarkers. Like the alternative systems the APs offer. The same would be nice for mythic.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not really sure how anyone can "farm" Greater trials, since they are entirely GM moderated.


I imagine there will be a few alternate options briefly mentioned. Plus lesser trials have received a lot of negative feedback, so I would expect them to change somewhat anyway.


TheLoneCleric wrote:
Or a milestone mythic system that is more tied to story event progression. Say like the Heroes Journey, or other narrative devices.

This is basically what you have now if you ignore lesser trials.

There's certainly nothing wrong with ignoring greater trials too. I mean, if you're already ignoring XP, there's not much reason for you to use the trials system at all.

That said, I do hope they lay out how it's fundamentally GM-fiat regardless of what you do. That's how I'll be treating it regardless, so I honestly don't even know if it's in the playtest already.

Cheers!
Landon


TheLoneCleric wrote:

The achivement based tier 'exp' system doesn't really work for me. I don't like the idea the players can 'farm' bizarre achivements to unlock higher tiers.

Personally I hope they offer alternative systems. Say a simple 2 character levels = 1 mythic level.

Or a milestone mythic system that is more tied to story event progression. Say like the Heroes Journey, or other narrative devices.

I rarely track exp exactly rather count session and major events for my level up milemarkers. Like the alternative systems the APs offer. The same would be nice for mythic.

i try one option: in al ap we play at medium xp progression... in one adventure, i make the weapons has level for scalating the power, so, they use the old xp progression (3.5) [1000-3000-6000... etc], there were a base class (expert, warrior, adept, magewriter, prophet and commoner and aristocrat just were a social class and so)... this grows up with the fast xp, the normal class level up with the medium and the prestige class uses the slow xp rate to level up, so a character was a 5lvl expert, rogue 3 and assassins 1. thats a lvl 9 character1

what if u use an independent rate of slow xp to level a tier path?


judas 147 wrote:
TheLoneCleric wrote:

The achivement based tier 'exp' system doesn't really work for me. I don't like the idea the players can 'farm' bizarre achivements to unlock higher tiers.

Personally I hope they offer alternative systems. Say a simple 2 character levels = 1 mythic level.

Or a milestone mythic system that is more tied to story event progression. Say like the Heroes Journey, or other narrative devices.

I rarely track exp exactly rather count session and major events for my level up milemarkers. Like the alternative systems the APs offer. The same would be nice for mythic.

i try one option: in al ap we play at medium xp progression... in one adventure, i make the weapons has level for scalating the power, so, they use the old xp progression (3.5) [1000-3000-6000... etc], there were a base class (expert, warrior, adept, magewriter, prophet and commoner and aristocrat just were a social class and so)... this grows up with the fast xp, the normal class level up with the medium and the prestige class uses the slow xp rate to level up, so a character was a 5lvl expert, rogue 3 and assassins 1. thats a lvl 9 character1

what if u use an independent rate of slow xp to level a tier path?

in the rules ive mention before, we reach a lvl 35th and fight with/versus gods (which is one of the most populars fantassies by the way)... those were four years playing those characters from level 0 to level 35 pheeeew


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I actually prefer a GM moderated system of progression for tiers over experience points. Part of what grants a character mythic power is their ability to defeat great odds or mythic monsters.


Arazni wrote:
I actually prefer a GM moderated system of progression for tiers over experience points. Part of what grants a character mythic power is their ability to defeat great odds or mythic monsters.

I have to agree with Arazni. I would think that if it is tied to XP in any way then tiers stop being something tied to "great deeds" alone. I can earn XP for doing lots of small things like a standard dugeon crawl. I think Mythic tiers need to be reserved for those who do greater things.


I also really don't like the "MMORPG Achievements" as a system of progression. I think that for a game like this it's really up to the GM to set "Epic" challenges to overcome to have a chance to advance.


Haven't actually play-tested the Mythic Adventures module, only read through it, still here are my insights:

First of all, I think it is a great concept: above the norm powers, even at lower levels.

However, it sounds strange to me, that you need a number of greater trials, which are GM approval based, and a number of lesser trials, which are just a bunch of pre-described actions, to advance to the next tier. Since the final judgement is up to the GM anyway, I would do away with the lesser trials. Especially since I believe that the for some paths the trials are easier to complete, then for other paths. (Let alone the fact that some of the lesser trials are rather silly if you ask me.)

I do believe that it is important to distinguish between normal levelling through gaining XP and gaining Mythic tiers. Otherwise a mythic tier is nothing but a number of class levels stacked together.

Personally I am fine with GM approval for advancement through the tiers. However, it is probably good to give GM's some guidelines on how to help their players achieve this. It are the "why, what, how, etc. " that determine if characters progress a tier or not: Why can non-mythic characters not solve this problem? What is the fundamental problem that needs to be solved? How can this be achieved? These are questions the GM has to think about beforehand. Therefore, I would suggest to put a list of these kinds of questions in the module. By answering these questions for himself, the GM then also defines the criteria the characters have to live up to in order to advance to the next tier.


To me, mythic rules are reminiscent of mutants and masterminds. You could be playing batman and superman and they're both the same level. You could play an entire campaign without leveling up too. I wouldn't mind mythic rules being usable that way. If you did want to gain in power, instead of xp characters got points they could immediately spend on their characters or save to buy better abilities. Then after so many points it was decided the power level had gone up which increased the caps on abilities. The point was, if and when points were awarded was entirely up to the GM. I think that's the way to go with mythic.


To me arbitrariness does not make a game feel more in tune with the mood of wonder and tone of epic myth that I hope this rule set captures. A few words or a sidebar on alternate progression would be a treat though. In playtesting I've found grant a tier at the following levels to be a to be a fun alt:

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