Is jumping while charging enough to get higher ground for Death from Above?

[Papa Chango]

The title says it all. I have trouble finding in the PF SRD what higher ground is.

Thanks.

Edit: Oh, and is Leap Attack from complete adventurer too powerful for PF?

[Frankthedm]

No, jumping doesn't get you Higher Ground. Missing is the important 'ground' or other stable surface beneath you.

Otherwise every single flying being could claim higher ground against non-flying foes.

Considering leap attack multiplies damage, it should be viewed with suspicion.

[Maezer]

If you are jumping high enough enough to change you altitude relative to the target of your charge, you probably are not charging directly at them, so it would not be a valid charge.

Is leap attack too powerful? Well that's up to your GM. It is certainly a very potent damage increase.

At 5th level (assuming you adjust the 8 jump ranks to 5 PF acrobatic ranks which would be the most standard conversion) you are probably look at +12 damage with a 2handed weapon. That's pretty significant though I don't think it would break the game. At 20th level (assuming full BAB), it would be +36 damage.

Those damage bonus are much larger than those granted by any other feat. But I don't think it breaks the game. That said as the GM of such a character I'd probably find myself rigorously enforcing charge rules to limit opportunities (and limit to one attack with pounce or anything that grants a full attack on a charge).

[Vestrial]

Frankthedm wrote:

No, jumping doesn't get you Higher Ground. Missing is the important 'ground' or other stable surface beneath you.

Otherwise every single flying being could claim higher ground against non-flying foes.

You clearly did not read the feat.

To the OP: RAW, no. Because falling is not flying. Your GM may rule otherwise, though. I'd allow it because it's just cool. I'd probably require you to at least be entirely in the space a level above your target at some point in the jump, though. Meaning, against a medium creature you'd have to be 10' up. That's a pretty serious jump check...

[Papa Chango]

Yeah, I figured Leap Attack would only apply to the first attack you make after jumping. But with a 2HW that would mean +18 damage (+6 from PA at level 5 X 3 from Leap Attack). +54 damage at level 20.

Death from Above is realy vague. It counts while flying, so a flyer would just need a two square head start to use it. That "directly at" part is also vague.

Seems too strong any...

[Gauss]

Frankthedm, why cant fliers claim higher ground? They are above the target, they are supported (wings), they should be able to claim higher ground.

The feat Death from Above states that fliers (amongst others) gain a +5 bonus in place of the charge AND higher ground bonuses. Note: it is replacing +2 and +1 = +3 with +5.

Doctor Katz, the feat Death from Above gives a +2 bonus increase on one attack. It is not that big a deal. In fact, it is nearly a waste of a good feat.

- Gauss

[Papa Chango]

For a charger that jumps to get a +5 bonus to the one attack he gets against an opponent it is not that big?

[Frankthedm]

Vestrial wrote:

Frankthedm wrote:

No, jumping doesn't get you Higher Ground. Missing is the important 'ground' or other stable surface beneath you.

Otherwise every single flying being could claim higher ground against non-flying foes.

You clearly did not read the feat.

The text of the feat grants the bonus in 2 situation. When the feat possessor has higher ground OR when the feat possessor is flying.

Benefit: Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the bonuses from charging and being on higher ground.

[Gauss]

Doctor Katz: the charger already gets +3. I said a +2 increase for the price of a feat is not that big.

A charger on higher ground normally gets +1 attack bonus due to higher ground. The charger also gets a +2 attack bonus for charging. This is a total of a +3 attack bonus.

The feat gives that charger a +5 attack bonus instead of that +3 attack bonus. That is only a +2 increase. Thus, for a single attack it is not that big a deal. Hell, Id rather take something like Weapon Focus that applied to all of my attacks rather than just when I happen to be charging from on high.

- Gauss