trip weapons and attacks of opportunity & sweeper kobold tail attachment


Rules Questions


Does tripping with a trip weapon provoke attack of oportunity?
by raw i woud say yes, but there are a few things unclear, and official standings on trip weapons have changed somewhat* it seems so i was interested was there any official word on this that i missed

*- http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kkp5&page=3?Official-answers#123
(which says you can only use trip weapons to trip)
- http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom?Combat-Maneuvers-and-Weapon-Speci al-Features
(which says yo ucan trip,disarm and sunder with any weapon)

pros of non provoking:
1) "If you do not have the Improved Trip feat, or a similar ability, initiating a trip provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver."
-does trip weapon quality qualify as 'similar ability'

2)general pro logic on the boards seems to be:
unarmed strikes= provokes attack of opportunity, unarmed trip=provokes attack of opportunity, attack with a weapon= doesnt provoke --->> trip with a weapon doesnt provoke

now although james jacobs has pointed out the flaw of that logic the question he was replying to didnt mention provoking AOOs so his reply didnt mention it either
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kkp5&page=4?Official-answers#162

3) (Arg 136, kobold tail attachments,sweeper)
Sweeper: When properly used, this sharply curved piece
of metal can knock opponents off their feet. Unlike most
trip weapons, you cannot drop it if you are tripped during
your own trip attempt.

now if you can trip using any (ie not 'trip' weapons) and sweeper has trip property but cannot be dropped what does trip property do then?

....)
(3.5 Player's Handbook pg. 159, last sub-heading of Trip:
"Tripping with a Weapon: Some weapons, including the spiked chain, dire flail, heavy flail, light flail, guisarme, halberd, and whip, can be used to make trip attacks. In this case, you make a melee touch attack with the weapon instead of an unarmed melee touch attack, and you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.")

cons:
1)it isnt directly stated anywhere
2)for a few gp you avoid taking 2 feats


If you don't have Improved Trip you provoke, no matter what weapon you use.

The unarmed/weapon attack analogy doesn't quite work, because Trip attempts are something else, and more complicated than "tries to hit him somewhere"

The 3.5 stuff doesn't apply at all since combat maneuvers have been COMPLETELY revamped.

Trip quality: Clicky (plus the Errata box on the side)
Sweeper: In essense that means the Sweeper doesn't have the trip property after all. I guess whoever wrote it, still had the old version in mind not the errata'd one


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Then what is the advantage of a weapon having trip?

Can't you attempt a trip, making yourself vulnerable to an attack of opportunity, with ANY weapon (or no weapon at all)?


With a trip weapon you still provoke the attack of opportunity, however if you fail to meet their CMD then you may drop the weapon to avoid being tripped in return. Alternatively if you attempt a trip with a non trip weapon it's assumed you aren't using the weapon as part of your trip attempt. Thus a LS doesn't factor into a trip, but a whip does.


JustKhaos wrote:
Alternatively if you attempt a trip with a non trip weapon it's assumed you aren't using the weapon as part of your trip attempt. Thus a LS doesn't factor into a trip, but a whip does.

That bit is untrue. You can trip with any weapon, whether it has the trip quality or not.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Thanks.

I guess you could also add the weapon's enhancement bonus to the combat maneuver roll.


Hmm, it would seem from a rules standpoint that the end result is treated in the same manor as an attempt made without a weapon. You can't drop the longsword to respond to the opponent's trip reaction, just like you can't drop your "leg" for a normal trip. I suppose the only real difference then is any enchantment on the weapon.


JustKhaos wrote:
Hmm, it would seem from a rules standpoint that the end result is treated in the same manor as an attempt made without a weapon. You can't drop the longsword to respond to the opponent's trip reaction, just like you can't drop your "leg" for a normal trip. I suppose the only real difference then is any enchantment on the weapon.

Right -- but that can be a pretty big difference!


Valid point, my apologies Seeker of 7 if anything I said may have been confusing.

Shadow Lodge

When making a trip attempt you add all enhancement/feat/spell/etc bonuses you have with the weapon your are using.

If you dont have improved trip you will provoke an AoO.

If the weapon you are using is a trip weapon AND you fail by 10 or more on your roll, you can drop the weapon instead of falling prone yourself.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / trip weapons and attacks of opportunity & sweeper kobold tail attachment All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.