Large bow?


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Is this possible?

"You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size" thought it is not a "two-handed weapon" (between firing it is held in one hand, not two).


Any two-handed weapon can be held one handed while not using it to attack. As for the rest of it I am sure its going to be a solid no but being at work can not go rules diving to point out exactly why.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quote:
You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size.

Ranged weapons don't actually have the "light, one-handed, two-handed" classification, and the above sentence can be read to suggest that "it doesn't matter what size the bow is, big or small, you need two hands to use it".

So, umm, oddly, yes, you can use a large bow, but you suffer the -2 to hit for an inappropriately sized weapon.

As with all slightly out-there rules, though, ask your GM.

Grand Lodge

You would not be able to comfortably handle the bow or arrows. -2 to hit for inappropriately sized weapon.

As a GM in a home game. I would say there is no way you could pull the arrow back to it's proper draw length. Therefore, you would only do damage appropriate to your size.

My 5 year old has a bow for her size and does quite well with it. She has tried to use mine before and can not even budge the string. If the bow was 30 lbs lighter in draw weight, so she could pull it, the bow would have no more power then her own bow. No change in damage die as far as I see it.

The Exchange

Larger arrows create bigger wounds - hence the extra damage.

Totally agree on the -2 attack though as per the normal rule.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Got to agree on the common-sense thing. Can a 6' tall human with around 30 inches of available draw pull a 10' longbow that normally needs 60 inches of draw and fire effectively? Heck no! Best case, the arrow will basically fall out of the bow and go nowhere.

By RAW, though, he can, with a mere -2 to hit, due to the wonderful ambiguity in the term "regardless of size".


There was Great Bow in 3.5 that did 1d10x3 damage range 120ft and need EWP to use for med PC.

The Exchange

Look at a daikyu. Those things are huge (some of them) but you do not pull the draw from the middle of the bow.

Daikyus are also legal in PFS, they are simply counted (statswise) as a longbow.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Go nuts! How about a Collosal longbow (approximately 25'+ bow needing at least 180 inches of draw) for (I think, the tables break down) 6d6 damage with a mere -8 penalty to hit.

This is why we have GMs. I would be inclined to house rule a penalty to damage (at least) based on the difference between the Str score of the creature using the oversized bow and the Base Str given in the monster creation guidelines, somehow.


The greatbow was designed for a medium character. Its characteristics were designed to take into account the shape & size of a medium character.

The Exchange

A small sized creature can use a longbow with str 10 and do d6.
A medium creature can use a longbow with str 10 and do d8.
A large creature can use a longbow with str 10 and do 2d6.

They all have str 10, using a longbow that is sized appropriately doing appropriate damage.

The collosal bow is a bit silly and I think you can only use something one size category either way from memory so it is an irrelevant sillyness :)

Having a medium creature using a large bow (sure, not really made for someone their size, hence the -2) seems fine to me but I want to know is it LEGAL?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The relevant bits of rules:

Quote:
Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons : This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon's size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
Quote:

Weapon Size : Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

A weapon's size category isn't the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon's size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

Inappropriately Sized Weapons : A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

Plus the bit about bows from the longbow description. I have bolded the parts that make this fun.

This can be read both ways. Since the light, one-handed, two-handed designation matters only for melee weapons, a case can be made that it is not relevant to ranged weapons. However, a longbow is clearly "the same size as the wielder", and this fits the requirement for being considered a two-handed weapon, so a large one would be unusable.

Take your pick of which rules matter. Personally, I'd say it can't be used, if I'm honest, but a large short bow would be fair game.


Bloodlust wrote:


The collosal bow is a bit silly and I think you can only use something one size category either way from memory so it is an irrelevant sillyness :)

On melee weapons you can go two sizes if it's a light weapon (turns into a two-handed for someone two sizes smaller) or a two handed (turns to light for someone two sizes larger).

I would like to point you to this FAQ entry

FAQ:
Inappropriately Sized Firearms: Does this rule (page 136) allow a Medium or smaller creature to use larger firearms of any size?

The text of the rule is, "The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it." The intent of that rule was to prevent a Medium character from using a Small rifle as a one-handed pistol; it wasn’t intended to let a Medium character use a Large, Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal two-handed firearm as a two-handed weapon. Just like with non-firearms, a creature cannot wield a weapon that’s far too big or small for it. Specifically in the case of firearms, a Medium character can’t use a two-handed firearm sized for a Large or larger creature, and a Small character can’t use a two-handed firearm sized for a Medium or larger creature.


While it is made for firearms not bows, I would say the logic behind it applies to bows just as well.

The Exchange

Quatar: Quite possibly.

Grand Lodge

Bloodlust wrote:

Larger arrows create bigger wounds - hence the extra damage.

Totally agree on the -2 attack though as per the normal rule.

Nope, force behind the blow is what does more damage. I can hit you with a bowling ball at 50 MPH and it will hurt a lot more then walking into the side of a building.

Grand Lodge

Bloodlust wrote:
....seems fine to me but I want to know is it LEGAL?

This is not a Pathfinder Society forum. If you want to know if it is legal you need to ask your GM.


A bow, I can see causing problems seeing as draw force is what imparts the velocity (and, consequently, damage potential) to the ammo. If the bow is too large, you can't draw it far enough back and the weight of the weapon becomes a hindrance. With weapons like crossbows or firearms that use mechanisms to facilitate launching, you have issues regarding operation of those mechanisms. If your fingers are two big or two small, you can't operate the trigger. If a blowgun is too big, your lips won't fit around it.

The only corner case I can think of is the Halfling Sling Staff. It wields just like a 1-h club for both melee and firing so you could, presumably, have an over-sized one wielded as a 2-h weapon for melee but do you still have to use two hands when firing it or is it still 1-h since handedness isn't really a factor of ranged weapons?

Silver Crusade

Chemlak wrote:

Go nuts! How about a Collosal longbow (approximately 25'+ bow needing at least 180 inches of draw) for (I think, the tables break down) 6d6 damage with a mere -8 penalty to hit.

This is why we have GMs. I would be inclined to house rule a penalty to damage (at least) based on the difference between the Str score of the creature using the oversized bow and the Base Str given in the monster creation guidelines, somehow.

A giant doing a Full body stretch holding the bow with heels, drawing with both arms lying prone... but I guess that's a ballista siege weapon.


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Five years.

Sovereign Court

To be fair, it seems there still isn't a clear cut answer on this topic...

Silver Crusade

There is a magic item enchantment that lets magic weapons resize to fit user. So in theory a huge great bow could be resized to fit a medium user and still have the draw weight to do extra damage the user just would have to have to be strong enough to use the bow. IMO it would be similar to a composite bow. With introducing tech into Pathnfinder I would not see a problem introducing modern compound bows maybe have them do 1d12x3.


Lou Diamond wrote:
There is a magic item enchantment that lets magic weapons resize to fit user. So in theory a huge great bow could be resized to fit a medium user and still have the draw weight to do extra damage the user just would have to have to be strong enough to use the bow. IMO it would be similar to a composite bow. With introducing tech into Pathnfinder I would not see a problem introducing modern compound bows maybe have them do 1d12x3.

Resizing


Hahahahahaha...

I can see a tiny box filled with fine weapons that when you take one out it uses Resizing to fit you...

The Strength attribute is different for different size creatures.

Quote:

A small sized creature can use a longbow with str 10 and do d6.

A medium creature can use a longbow with str 10 and do d8.
A large creature can use a longbow with str 10 and do 2d6.

A small sized creature with str 10 can pull 75lbs

A medium creature with str 10 can pull 100lbs
A large creature with str 10 can pull 200lbs


Dr Styx wrote:

Hahahahahaha...

I can see a tiny box filled with fine weapons that when you take one out it uses Resizing to fit you...

Throw in your fine Fitting sheild and armor and you're set. :)

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

There is no rule allowing incorrectly sized ranged weapons. The -2 inappropriate penalty heads with handiness.

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