Thunder and Fang Ranger


Hi everyone.

I stumbled upon the feat Thunder and Fang as well as this mini. It looks awesome, and though I doubt it's particularly good, I really want to play one. So I built the character, hopefully for use in one of my friend's games over IRC.

Anyway, I threw together this build, but I'd like any advice anyone could provide.

Human (Shoanti) Ranger/Fighter (Two Weapon Warrior)
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 9
Wis: 13
Cha: 8
Traits: Reactionary and Indomitable Faith

1 (Ranger 1)(+1 BAB | +2 Fort, +2 Ref, +0 Will): Favored Enemy 1 (Ex), Track (Ex), Wild Empathy (Ex), Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Earthbreaker (Human)
2 (Ranger 2)(+2 BAB | +3 Fort, +3 Ref, +0 Will): Two Weapon Fighting (Class)
3 (Ranger 3)(+3 BAB | +3 Fort, +3 Ref, +1 Will): Endurance, Favored Terrain 1 (Ex), Weapon Focus: Klar, Endurance (Class)
4 (Fighter 1)(+4 BAB | +5 Fort, +3 Ref, +1 Will): Thunder and Fang (Class)
5 (Ranger 4)(+5 BAB | +6 Fort, +4 Ref, +1 Will): Hunter's Bond (Ex), Spells, Boon Companion
6 (Ranger 5)(+6 BAB | +6 Fort, +4 Ref, +1 Will): Favored Enemy 2 (Ex), Improved Shield Bash
7 (Ranger 6)(+7 BAB | +7 Fort, +5 Ref, +2 Will): Woodland Stride (Ex), Shield Slam, Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Class)
8 (Ranger 7)(+8 BAB | +7 Fort, +5 Ref, +2 Will): Step Up
9 (Ranger 8)(+9 BAB | +8 Fort, +6 Ref, +2 Will): Swift Tracker (Ex), Favored Terrain 2 (Ex), Following Step
10 (Ranger 9)(+10 BAB | +8 Fort, +6 Ref, +3 Will): Evasion (Ex)
11 (Ranger 10)(+11 BAB | +9 Fort, +7 Ref, +3 Will): Favored Enemy 3 (Ex), Shield Master, Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Class)
12 (Ranger 11)(+12 BAB | +9 Fort, +7 Ref, +3 Will): Quarry (Ex)

Now, this is assuming that you can treat the Klar attacks like a Shield Bash, otherwise I'd drop Imp. Shield Bash/Shield Slam/Shield Master. Also, I was trying to consider if it would be better to take fewer levels in Ranger and go Fighter for more bonus feats plus the weapon-training-ish thing from Two Weapon Fighter. But I lose spells, skill points and a stronger Reflex save, too.

Anyway, would be glad to hear other's opinions!

Well Thunder and Fang lets you keep the AC bonus from the Klar when you attack with it. So Improves Shield bash is unecessary. However Impr. Shield Bash is prerequisite for the others so if you want Slam and Master you still need Bash. It really depends how deep into the shield feat chain you want to go.

Take the sword and shield ranger instead and get the twf chain with feats if you want that direction, shield master at 6th and count enhance from shield on attack and damage without waiting for level 11, by then you can get the dex items to get him up to GTWF dex with the money saved.
by 6th, you should have a +4 weapon from your enchanted shield which also helps it to count for the bypassing DR bit since it now counts as weapon enhancement.

The reason he's going TWF combat style is so I don't have to stack Dex. It also feels kinda bleh from a flavor standpoint, the idea is that he's f#*%ing strong as hell, strong enough to whip an earthbreaker around with a single hand.

Honestly, Shield Master isn't a necessity, I just figured it'd let me have more options when it came to purchasing power. And Shield Slam is pretty nifty, at least if I can use it with normal iterative attacks on the Klar.

I like your opinions, though, and will definitely take them into consideration!

Bump for more opinions.

Tarov wrote:
Bump for more opinions.

Thread necro is fun sometimes so i'll be that guy.

I found this when i was searching for some Thunder and Fang builds and i've come to the realization that if you really want to get this type of build rolling you really are stuck with at the least 2 levels of Fighter. You can follow this up with going Ranger or Barbarian, both for the flavor, or any other class for that matter. You really want those bonus feats that the fighter provides.

Short form build
Shoanti Fighter 2/ Ranger whatever

STR- 17 (15+2 human)
CON- 14
DEX- 15
INT- 7
WIS- 14
CHA- 10
Stats are up for grabs and i really hate dumping Intelligence so much but...
Level 1(Fighter 1)
Fighter 1: Power Attack
Human BF : Weapon Focus-Earthbreaker
Character1: Weapon Focus-Klar

Level 2(Fighter 2)
Fighter 2: Two-Weapon Fighting

Level 3(Ranger Level 1)
Character2: Thunder and Fang

Level 4(Ranger Level 2)
Combat Style1: (TWF)Double Slice
Just add flavor for the remainder of your levels. I really haven't thought much further about the build as my plan was to go barb either after four levels of fighter or like this after 2. Depends on taste.

Looks good to me. There are certainly worse ways to go.

I had a build made up a while ago for straight barbarian, but unfortunately, my main computer is out of commission ATM... I'd recommend trying that out though, as it's rock solid!

Thunder and Fang Style Origins:
The Shoanti appear in the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP - Book 4 (A History of Ashes) and are a tribe of barbarians. The son of the Chieftain of the Skoan-Quah (Skull clan) is named Krojun Eats What he Kills - he is a Thunder and Fang style barbarian and he is DAMN COOL for it. If you plan to play a Thunder and Fang style barbarian, there is some great background in A History of Ashes that would really give you a solid feel for the character.

MechE_ wrote:

I had a build made up a while ago for straight barbarian, but unfortunately, my main computer is out of commission ATM... I'd recommend trying that out though, as it's rock solid!

** spoiler omitted **

I'll have to check out that AP for some background. Krojun has the look and feel of a 4e(Lo-Kag the Hag snorting wandering Half-Giant(Goliath) Fighter|Barbarian) PC i had that i loved, so i started tinkering.

The initial build in this thread was a Ranger so i went there but i personally will go with Barbarian. The only reason i went for the fighter early on was to get some crucial feats under my belt before kicking the build into high gear. It's a feat intensive build to get off the ground before you get to add anything "fun" to the build. I'll need to dig around and find way to maximize Intimidate, as a Human, and see if i can apply effects such as the Intimidating Prowess feat and Intimidating Glare rage power. Just seems like it could be pretty cool.

A two level dip into fighter would work if you wanted some ancillary feats (intimidating prowess, skill focus - intimidate, etc) or if you wanted to get the key feats a bit faster, But they would delay your progress towards the better rage power abilities, such as pounce from greater animal totem.

If I recall right, my feat progression looked like this...

1) Weapon Focus Earthbreaker
1) Weapon Focus Klar (Human)
3) Two-Weapon Fighting
5) Thunder and Fang Style
7) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9) Double Slice
11) Two-Weapon Rend

If I were going to throw fighter levels in, I would probably do it like this...

1) Barbarian - Weapon Focus Earthbreaker
1) Human - Weapon Focus Klar
2) Fighter - Two-Weapon Fighting
3) Barbarian - Thunder and Fang Style
4) Barbarian
5) Barbarian - Double Slice
6) Fighter - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7) Barbarian - ????
8) Barbarian
9) Barbarian - ????
10) Barbarian
11) Barbarian - Two-Weapon Rend

If I were going to do a non-human, or smarter yet, take the Dual Talent alternate racial trait, since you need both Dex and Str to be reasonably high, along with Constitution, obviously, then my feat progression would look like this with 2 levels of fighter thrown in.

1) Barbarian - Weapon Focus Earthbreaker
2) Fighter Bonus - Weapon Focus Klar
3) Fighter - Two-Weapon Fighting
3) Fighter Bonus - Thunder and Fang Style
4) Barbarian
5) Barbarian - Double Slice
6) Barbarian
7) Barbarian - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8) Barbarian
9) Barbarian - ????
10) Barbarian
11) Barbarian - Two-Weapon Rend

Honestly though, I would probably try to avoid taking 2 levels of fighter personally. Delaying your higher end class features, such as pounce and mighty rage, doesn't really seem worthwhile compared to just waiting a few levels to get Thunder and Fang Style. I'm not even sure Thunder and Fang Style would be worth it early on compared to just whacking someone with the Earthbreaker. Once your strength score is higher, it might be worth it though. There is one instance in which taking two levels of fighter would definitely be worthwhile, and that's if you will have a bard in your group!

Why, you ask? Well, if you will have a bard in the group (or other characters that will regularly give you bonuses to attack rolls) then Power Attack becomes very worthwhile - probably a must have! If you don't have that, then it's actually only barely worth while (meaning it isn't worth spending the feat on), since you only get +2 / +1 on your damage rolls, or at least that's the way we play it at our table. (Technically, an Earthbreaker is a two-handed weapon, so by RAW, Power Attack would give +3 damage for each 4 points of BAB since the wording of the feat goes by weapon category, not how you are currently wielding it.)

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