And by Superstition I mean the rage power. Is it a good idea for a second level PFS barbarian or should I put it off until later (or never [as much as I like Spell Sunder, it isn't worth anything if I don't live that long])?
Anyone have any tricks for mitigating the problems of having to save versus allies' spells? I was thinking of dropping Infernal Healing on myself right before we kick down doors, but I'm not sure if it's a "save once, then fast healing" or "save each round" sort of thing. It looks like I don't have to save versus channeling or LoH, which is nice for those times when there's a cleric/oracle/paladin in the party.
In short, is +2 vs spells worth the chance of dying from saving against healing spells?
Since dropping rage drops my Con, that may not always be a option - loosing 4 hp stings now, but at level 6 with raging vitality the -18 hp drop would bring me from 1 hp to most sincerely dead. Thanks for pointing out the potion of lesser restoration, that should prove useful.
I would also hold my action if I knew a caster was going to buff me.
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Since dropping rage drops my Con, that may not always be a option - loosing 4 hp stings now, but at level 6 with raging vitality the -18 hp drop would bring me from 1 hp to most sincerely dead. Thanks for pointing out the potion of lesser restoration, that should prove useful.
Remember that the potion is NOT the first level Paladin version, but the second level Cleric version, so it isn't something that is always available, and it costs 300 gp rather than 50 gp.
I would also hold my action if I knew a caster was going to buff me.
I was already planning on holding off on raging for a round or two to assess whether the situation calls for rage, what with not having a lot of it at low levels.
Since dropping rage drops my Con, that may not always be a option - loosing 4 hp stings now, but at level 6 with raging vitality the -18 hp drop would bring me from 1 hp to most sincerely dead. Thanks for pointing out the potion of lesser restoration, that should prove useful.Remember that the potion is NOT the first level Paladin version, but the second level Cleric version, so it isn't something that is always available, and it costs 300 gp rather than 50 gp.
I know that and have enough fame, but I don't think that it's likely to be a common occurrence, more of a nice trick to have up my sleeve just in case.
I seem to have missed the most important thing: communication. Make sure the other players know about it, and find out who plans on buffing or healing me.
Also, oil of Goodberry would give me a small amount of saveless healing (and also make me feel very full).
I have to say bad idea for PFS. In a normal group the uber enlightened cleric's 22 wisdom makes you both needing in combat healing AND you making the save against the spell an unlikely confluence of events. In pfs your healer might be a sorcerer with UMD and a wand of CLW... and its massive DC 11 will save.
I finally retired my character with superstition (at 4th level) as the biggest problem was *remembering* that I had it, in the heat of battle whilst thinking about tactics and everything else. If I'd played the same character consistently every week with the same group of people it might have been easy, but playing irregularly, with different people and interspersing play with other characters I frequently forgot it until after the encounter, when it was too late. The numbers were built into the character sheet for saves, but I had to be looking at the saves section to remember it. I could have added notes in the HP section to remind me when receiving healing spells, notes in the Attack and Damage section for buffs, notes in the AC section for buffs, notes in the Speed section for buffs, notes in the Stats section, the Skills section... - if it becomes that much of a ball-ache then it's not worth it. With rage, racial and trait bonuses as well (vs certain situations) she had eight possible will saves. It was too much.
I have a lvl 12 Invulnerable rager barbarian with a maxed out superstition bonus (+9). The bonus can totally save your bacon at the higher levels when AC starts to mean nothing and the nastier spells start coming out. Superstition has let me weather quite a bit of nastiness (Bleasphemy, dominate, etc.). I have only failed one save and that was unfortunately against a baleful polymorph (rolled a 1 but still beat the DC = fail). It is totally doable in PFS and the positives do out way the negs. Here are some key things to consider
1) Get your buffs before combat starts or during first round. Buff before you rage.
2) Yes you make saves against all forms of spells. So if you absolutely need something then you must drop out of rage.
3) Healing - Not all that important. I have yet to die or even drop below 0 HP. You can get your bucket of HP back after everything dies in the second round. If you absolutely need a heal, remember that the cure line of spells saves for half. This means that even while raging you will get some health back. Avoid Infernal healing as an in combat spell, 10HP over 10 rounds in meh. AND...channeling positive energy has no save component for healing. You don't get a choice on it and are just healed the full amount. Clerics are our buddy when it get real bad...but it probably wont.
4)It's not just about superstition.....it's about the awesome rage powers that have it as a pre-req. Witch hunter, spell sunder, ghost rager are all great powers.
I have a lvl 12 Invulnerable rager barbarian with a maxed out superstition bonus (+9).
Out of curiosity, how do you figure a +9 superstition bonus? From reading the rage power description, you should only have +5 at level 12, unless I'm missing something.
Superstition (Ex): The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.
I'm interested, as I have a very superstitious barbarian character also, and a bonus that much higher would be very helpful!
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You can bump it more by being human and sacrificing an HP or skill point each lvl for 1/3 lvl to superstition bonus. My bard is lvl 12 so that's an extra +4.
Oh and by the way....you can bump it even more with the new weapon enchantment from Ultimate equipment (Courageous I think is the name) that adds half your enhancement bonus to all morale bonuses (Str, Con Superstition saves, + any other morale bonus you can pick up from the casties). Edit: This will be my next enchantment to my weapon of doom as I take this character to lvl 17.
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The biggest problem I had with my superstitious barbarian was the saves vs healing. I still got half healing even if I made the save, but barbarians tend to take a LOT of hits and need a LOT of healing. When you've got 150+ HP at level 10+, only get half healing from a Cure Serious isn't very useful, but it can be enough in tight situations. Like anything else in the game, it's a balancing act.
The biggest problem I had with my superstitious barbarian was the saves vs healing. I still got half healing even if I made the save, but barbarians tend to take a LOT of hits and need a LOT of healing. When you've got 150+ HP at level 10+, only get half healing from a Cure Serious isn't very useful, but it can be enough in tight situations. Like anything else in the game, it's a balancing act.
My experience with the damage vs healing issue is that you rarely take enough damage to put yourself out of combat before everything is dead. There are a lot of times were I may be at half health but combat has ended and I can just wand of CLW or infernal healing back up to full health. There are extreme cases were you may go from decent health to OMG I need healing. This has happened once to me. I was crit with a thrown flaming burst greataxe. This almost killed me (I think I was down to 8 hp or so). However, I have since begun a crusade to mitigate taking spikey damage. My Barbarian now has moderate fortification and I highly recommend it for a barbarian. Under normal circumstances you kill stuff before they get anywhere close to killing you. They need a crit to really take you down before you take them down and so the crit protection helps a lot. Even if you fall into negatives, the battle can be mopped up before you die or someone can hit you with a CLW to stabilize you. Then they just bring you back from the brink with a wand after combat ends.
My barbarian obviously took more punishment than yours. I think part of that was that I usually played with the same people, even though it was PFS, and my barbarian was one of the only front liners, so I took all the hits.
As a true barbarian should!
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My barbarian obviously took more punishment than yours. I think part of that was that I usually played with the same people, even though it was PFS, and my barbarian was one of the only front liners, so I took all the hits.As a true barbarian should!
I wasn't complaining. Being the meat shield was part of his job, and nothing frustrated me more than situations where he had a hard time getting to the front line. Like when that BBEG in Rats of Round Mountain 1 tried to get away alive...
But even with 16 Con most of his career (going up to 18 at higher levels), and the DR from Invulnerable Rager, he still went down quite a few times. At lower levels, it didn't happen much, but after about level 6, things hit harder.
In PFS, you won't be able to get a sanity houserule that lets the will save bonus stack with the one rage itself grants, and will bonus is the one I would care most about as a Barbarian, so no dice.
Ways to mitigate it? Spells you cast on yourself can bypass your own SR, by the rules. Potions consider the imbiber (even if he's unconscious and someone else is pouring it down his throat) to be the spell's "caster", so.... stock up on potions? Accelerated Drinker trait might be a good idea.
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You get the larger bonus when it applies, though, so I don't see the problem. It just makes the barbarian's rage will bonus useless almost all of the time.
You can bypass your own SR, but not the need to save, unfortunately. Even Rage Prophets need to save against their own spells while raging if they're superstitious, I've found. Personal range spells allow no save, so they'er a good bet.
does the superstitious barbarian lose the core ability to voluntarily fail a save if you want to?
Since superstition won't boost my will save until level 4, is it better to take it at level 2 anyway to boost fort and ref saves or take something else?
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Since superstition won't boost my will save until level 4, is it better to take it at level 2 anyway to boost fort and ref saves or take something else?
The boost to the saves is a big deal at lower levels as well. I'd take it. Particularly if you're using the human favoured class bonus that increases it.
does the superstitious barbarian lose the core ability to voluntarily fail a save if you want to?
Depends on how you interpret the wording.
While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.
"Resisting" a spell seems to imply that you can't just voluntarily fail the save, and that's very clearly the intent.
So yes, you lose that ability versus spells while you rage.
Here's a more interesting question: Superstition gives a bonus versus spells, SLAs and SUs. However, it only requires you to save versus allies' spells, not their SLAs or SUs. Is this an oversight? Does this mean I don't have to save against the cleric's channel energy?
"While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies."
Basically if it is a spell that has a save, you MUST roll. Even those spells that saves can be voluntarily failed (Cure line of spells). However, if you notice it only says SPELLS. SLAs and SUs do not require a save unless you want to. Hence, superstitious barbarians do not have to save vs a clerics channel positive energy. Clerics are your friends.