PFS Archer Build Advice


Advice


I'm working up an archer as my next PFS character and I'm torn as to which path to take.

Options include:
1) Fighter
2) Ranger
3) Monk (Zen Archer)

Considerations include:
1) Early access to Improved Precise Shot (IPS)
2) Survivability
3) DPR
4) Cheese factor

Option 1 (Fighter)

Pros:
- Greatest number of feats so plenty of room for non-archery-related feats (Improved Initiative, Iron Will, etc.)
- Low cheese factor
- Weapon Training and Gloves of Dueling

Cons:
- Does not get IPS until 11 ::sadface::

Option 2 (Ranger)

Pros:
- Gets IPS at 6
- Lowest cheese factor

Cons:
- No access to Weapon Specialization
- Not much room for extra feats

Option 3 (ZAM)

Pros:
- Gets IPS at 6
- Extra ki attack for highest DPR

Cons:
- Highest cheese factor
- Not much room for extra feats

Cheese factor is understandably vague and subjective, but basically involves judging the likelihood that the other players and GM are going to roll their eyes and mutter, "Oh great, one of THOSE."

So, of the three options, can I get some input as to whether you think any additional factors should be considered, whether you think one is a clear win or fail, or any thoughts in general about how to succeed with a particular build.

Thanks!

Shannon

Sczarni

Actually, you may be surprised to learn that the Zen Archer receives more "feats" or their equivalent then the Fighter - especially for Society play as it caps at level 12.

Consider a Fighter receives a total of 7 bonus feats by level 12 and 6 feats like every other character receives. That's 13 feats, 14 if human.

The Zen Archer receives 6 feats for levels, just like every one else. He also receives 4 Monk bonus feats. Then he gets Flurry (Rapid shot only better), Perfect Strike, Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Point Blank Master, and Reflexive Shot (Snap shot).

That's 16 feats in 12 levels. 17 if human.

Sczarni

Because Archery is so feat intensive the Monk actually affords you the greatest flexibility in terms of non-archery feats. You will also have far better saves. There are few things more frighteneing then an optimized Archer being mind controlled and turning on his/her allies.

Ranger gets the most skills. This is actually important for Society play as you will probably need to use skills to complete your faction mission.

Fighter will do the most damage but have the worst saves and fewest skills.

I went throug this decision myself, and after putting together an excel workbook for each class built to level 12 I decided that for me the most appealing option was the Zen Archer, followed closely by Ranger.

If I was playing an AP with friends I'd probably lean more towards the Ranger - primarily because if you have an idea of what your going to be doing (i.e. have a chance to read a players guide) the Ranger can be built with that in mind (and Ranger's are my favourite class).

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

How well does a Ranger / Zen Archer blend work?

Sczarni

^That's something that I haven't played around with too much. I always start a "multi-class" build and then get too concerned with what I'm leaving on the table by going with a second class.

I have heard it said that the Zen Archer makes a good "dip" as many of the feats are front loaded. I think level 4 or level 6 are good break away points.

Theoretically it could work well because the Ranger's spells are powered by Wisdom - which is the Zen Archers primary stat.

Beyond that I can't really comment. I presume the Zen Archer/Druid would work well too. Maybe even better then the Ranger.


A level 11 Archer with Snap Shot and Improved Snap Shot threatens 15 feet out. With combat reflexes, and the level 11 class ability, you can trip anyone who provokes AoO within that area. As far as I understand, it would be hard to close in on such a guy.

Lantern Lodge

I've seen a Zen archer first hand in society play. One of my characters has adventured with him from 1st to 6th level. Needless to say the Zen archer performs extremely well both at ranged and melee combat (due to point blank master). Heck at 4th level the Zen Archer could cast barkskin on himself and paired with Mage Armor had better AC than our front-line fighters! What sucks is you'll have to eat 9 scenarios before he becomes effective at 3rd level.

For PFS I really enjoy playing rangers. They have a large array of skills and the early access to archery feats, like you've stated, is huge. When comparing their DPR to a fighter's, remember that the ranger also gains an animal companion which you should immediately gain Boon Animal Companion. Alternatively, consider taking a four level dip into fighter (Weapon Master) to gain 2 feats and +1 attack/+3 damage.

Fighter's tend to be boring due to their skill limit. They just aren't as interesting as a Ranger who comes jam packed with utility.

Scarab Sages

kaisc006 wrote:

Fighter's tend to be boring due to their skill limit. They just aren't as interesting as a Ranger who comes jam packed with utility.

You could always be an archery focused human Lore Warden with the Fast Learner feat.

7 skill points / level with a 13 intelligence. All knowledge skills are class skills.

Scarab Sages

Tiefling Lore Warden

Str: 9
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wil: 10
Cha: 5

Feats:
. point blank shot (1)
. precise shot (1)
. focused shot (2)
. combat expertise (2)
. rapid shot (3)
. deadly aim (4)
. weapon focus; longbow (5)
. manyshot (6)
. weapon specialization (7)
. clustered shots (8)
. snap shot (9)
. improved snap shot (10)
. point blank master (11)
. combat reflexes (12)

Baseline 9 skill points per level (counting favored class bonus), all knowledge skills as class skills. Intelligence is your damage stat from level 2 without enchanting your weapon.

Feel free to rearrancge certain feats if desired. The order I picked may not be optimal.

As a bonus: imagine the look on the wizards face when you explain your fighter is smarter than he is.


Why are Zen Archers cheesy?

And Ranger is nice for the most skills, spellcasting (Gravity Bow!), and you get a meat shield (companion).

As for DPR...Fighter does the most damage per shot, Zen Archer does more on a full attack with the ki point, generally. That does not make Zen Archer the clear DPR winner.


My DPR calculators show the ZAM has a damage drop off relative to the other two after level 8 for monsters of a high AC (lower to hit is not fully compensated for by perfect strike/flurry). The damage drop off for ZAM is somewhat less if chance to hit is around average, and if it's low they didn't drop off at all. He is (IMO) the most versatile and flexible to build character with all the extra feats, quite possible the most fun to play because you're able to build for so many things.

The Ranger keeps a healthy second to the fighter until after he gets Instant Enemy, when he has the highest burst potential from that point on (assuming he's FE stacking and has a bane bow for his stacked FE). They're great fun, good flexibility (not as good as the monk though).

The fighter is pretty much no going to be helping out anywhere but in combat, but he's going to be the best consistent damage, and lead the way until the ranger could eventually outdo him a few times a day.

Also keep in mind an urban barbarian could be using reckless attack to stack a really sick to hit bonus, so a barbarian is in there for this as well. Eventually combined with the weapon that gives an additional +2 while raging and rage to dex from the urban barbarian, you can imagine he's keeping up with the fighter on hit bonus.

Paladins also rule for archers, see also: smite.

Verdict: They're all awesome, just pick the one that fits the campaign the best. None are cheesy, unless you feel archery is cheesy.


I play a Zen Archer 4 / Druid 3 in PFS and he is a blast to play. Exceptionally flexible and still highly effective. Ranger would offer access to Gravity Bow eventually which would be seriously nice but the range style feats wouldn't offer a great deal to a zen archer (unless you wanted to build to switch hit). Favored enemy and terrain are nice but highly situational for PFS play. An animal companion (for either class) could be fun especially if you take boon companion but I chose to go the domain route. I think if I had to do it over I might have chosen the animal companion however. Monk speed, high AC and point blank master means I'm basically not just a front line character but often the first to close with the enemy. High saves plus occasionally using ki for AC (and a wand of Mage armor for times with an arcane caster in the party) make me fairly survivable.

But that said at level 7 I bought a con belt and took the toughness feat. At level 9 I'll probably take shaping focus (to add up to 4 monk levels to my Druid levels for wild shape) not sure yet if I'll be going to level 6 as a zen archer (weapon specialization plus improved precise shot makes it very tempting however but so are higher level Druid spells)

The zen archer is nearly a SAD class - you should boost WIS as high as you can - it gives you:

AC
To-hit
Will saves
Ki pool
Plus if you multiclass bonus spells and spell DCs.

And all with a lot of feat flexibility (just don't take wasted feats like Rapid Shot or multishot). Taking Deadly Aim however is a key investment of a feat likely your 3rd level feat.

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