The Harrow Deck of Many Things: Old vs. New! Which do you prefer?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

So, I'm checking out my favorite artifact in Paizo's new Artifacts & Legends book, and I notice there's been some serious changes to ye old Harrow Deck of Many Things.

I'm not sure what I think about the changes. Several seem to have been changed from bad to good outcomes, and many of the bad outcomes are much less harsh.

A summery of the changes, mostly for my own benefit:

The Avalanche: Old card trapped you as the spell imprisonment. New card causes an earthquake, THEN imprisons you. Much harsher than before. I like it.

The Big Sky: Old card allowed the one-time ability to "avoid any situation or effect". The new card gives you a +10 bonus to CMB and CMD for 1 round/day, with the side effect of causing a metal object in the vicinity to break. I miss the open-endedness of the old power, but the new power is great too.

The Demon's Lantern: Old card caused you to gain a powerful fiendish ally. New card causes you and all your equipment to disintegrate, leaving behind only a valuable gem. Again, I like both!

The Eclipse: Old card hit you with a permanent negative level. With the new card, the negative level only effects you from dusk to dawn. This is a little less harsh, but more interesting.

The Empty Throne: Grants you a noble title. Old card granted you 25,000 gp along with it, new card grants you 15,000 gp. I suppose that's a little less unbalancing at lower levels?

The Idiot: Old card reduced your mental stats to 3. New card reduces them by 1d4 points. This is far less harsh, but the old card was pretty much a death sentence for any player character.

The Keep: Old card created a castle. New card grants you a personal demiplane! Interesting in that there's a city in Lastwall that was created around a castle from a Harrow card that no longer exists!

The Lost: You are forbidden from gaining any more levels in whatever class you have the most level in. The new card gives you a chance to opt you, by dying and being reincarnated.

The Mute Hag: Old card caused your most private secret to become known to all who see you. New card causes you to permanently become deaf, blind, or mute.

The Queen Mother: Old card summoned 1d4 formian warriors to serve you. New card summons 2d4 giant ants. Do formian warriors not exist in Golarion? I don't think they're closed content, and I suppose I really haven't seen them since the oft-contested Great Beyond.

The Rakshasa: Old card caused you to become the puppet of a mysterious enemy. New card causes you to turn into a random animal for an hour every time tell a lie. These are both great draws.

The Sickness: Old card infected you with a random incurable disease. With the new card it's always leprosy. I suppose that's fine, but I feel like bringing back the random table.

The Snakebite: Old card caused you to switch alignment. New card causes anyone who touches you to become poisoned with greenblood oil.

The Tangled Briar: Old card restored a slain enemy to life. New card lets you speak with plants, but summons angry shambling mounds. I like the old ability more, but I'm tempted by angry shambling mounds.

The Tyrant: Old card summoned a powerful evil to drag you off to it's lair. New card grants you the one-time ability to command any creature in the multiverse. That's much nicer, and also not a character-ender.


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I feel like the harrow deck has too high of a risk to reward ratio for it to be regularly used in a game as there simply are too many cards that would basically nuke a campaign.


neither. Hate the deck. Always have.


I think I like the old one a bit better, but it is close.

It is a poor choice for a long or serious campaign. If you've been carefully bringing your character up from 1st to 15th level. Made major progress on accomplishing the character's goals. Then suddenly draw a game ending card just by random chance.

Well i would be kinda bummed if it was me.

Now in a not serious campaign (laughable deaths are normal). Or if you are just starting at high level (PC dies, ok, bring in new one).
yeah, then it can be fun.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

One party I was in got a deck. When the GM ruled that the diviner couldn't divine how many cards he should draw, we elected not to use it. We kept it around just in case someone decides to throw a Mage's Disjunction at us. Or to use as an incentive, offering a draw from the deck to someone/thing in exchange for something we need.


The new Snakebite card would be a huge boon for a character built around grappling.

-Aaron


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Wow are you guys missing the point. There are very few game breaking cards...in fact I honestly can't think of any right now. The ones that are probably worst from a character perspective (the disintegration for instance) aren't even permanent but instead create a game problem that must be overcome. Even many of the good ones are more fodder for game material than just free stuff. How do the players deal with one becoming a noble, gaining access to a demi-plane, etc.

I guess if all you're worried about is leveling and completeing the next canned adventure, then most of these would absolutely derail things. But if you're instead interested in fun, wild events that can springboard into new adventures nobody (including the GM) saw coming...the deck is awesome.


Bit of thread necromancy there mjprogue, but was a good read, thanks.

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