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Empyreal sorceror EK

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I'm going to be playing in a PF game, and thought I'd run an eldritch knight. I'm thinking of running with the following: Ex-monk1/barbarian1/sorceror4/DD4/EK10. This will let me use wisdom as my casting stat, along with adding wis to ac. Alternately, I could replace the monk and barb levels with 2 levels of paladin for cha to saves. The game starts at 3rd level, and I rolled the following stats: 18, 15, 15, 14, 12, 9.

The game will be core classes only, but a feat or two from other sources may be allowed.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I think if you're trying to the "casting stat to AC" schtick, you might want to go Arcane (Sage) Sorcerer and Lorewarden instead.

Or, yeah, Paladin/Sorcerer would work well, too.

Also, I don't know what "DD" is in your class spread, nor do I understand why you'd want to dip barbarian.
Grand Lodge

I would assume "DD" stands for Dragon disciple. I am absorbing the build. It could be effective. Your mid levels 4-7 could be pretty tough.

Doesn't Dragon Disciple force your bloodline into draconic?

tough choices bit if I am taking monk at all, I'd want 2 levels to get another bonus feat, evasion, and another +1 to all saves.
But you still need a martial class level to get the martial weapon proficiencies (the feat only gives you 1 not all).

Likewise, most people taking barbarian will want 2 levels to get a rage power.

As understand it, most people going EK will just take 1 level of fighter (maybe lorewarden archtype) or 2 levels of barbarian.

Also, the DD will require you to use the dragon bloodline. If you are allowed to use the crossblooded archtype from UM then you could do the dragon and empyreal bloodlines to qualify for DD and get the wisdom casting stat.

DD is dragon disciple. The barbarian dip is for the martial weapon proficency (all). Has to be a fighter/barb/pally/ranger, since I'd be wisdom based, figured I'd go barb for the skills, rage, and extra movement.

I'm not familiar with the Lorewarden, so I looked it up on the PFSRD. I see nothing that gives int to ac.

Thanks for the reply!
Captain Netz wrote:
Doesn't Dragon Disciple force your bloodline into draconic?

Yep! "Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline."

Ok, my bad with the Lorewarden, I was thinking of Kensai, and that wouldn't help.

If you want proficiency in Martial Weapons, then you just need a single level of a Sohei Monk. You stop progressing your unarmed damage, but who cares?

You could do Sohei 2/Sorcerer 6/EK 10 and whatever you felt like with the last few levels.

But I'm still not understanding how you could be both a Dragon Disciple and an Empyreal Sorcerer without going Crossblooded.

Yes, Dragon Disciple requires you to have the Draconic bloodline. Empyreal won't work (unless you either do a cross-blooded sorcerer to get two bloodlines, which is probably a bad idea in this case).

The prestige class "Student of War" gives INT to AC at level 2. It's 3.5 era, though. There's a conversion on d20pfsrd.com, but definitely run that by your GM first.

Sorcerers already have slightly slower spell progression than prepped casters, and you're giving up at least 3 caster levels on top of that (1 for monk, 1 for barb, 1 at the first level of EK). So be aware that your spells are going to lag significantly behind other casters in your group.

Also, in order to keep your combat up to snuff, you'll need to have at least decent stats in a wider range of abilities than a pure caster. The save DCs for your spells -- and your caster level for spell penetration -- will likely fall behind. To compensate for that, it would probably be good to focus on buffs and utility spells. Those don't require saving throws, and can be very useful.

I think it sounds like a fun character, especially if you've got a neat backstory worked out to account for a monk barbarian whose ancestors got up to some serious hanky-panky. It'll just take some careful planning to wind up with something you're happy with.

He could go cross blooded DD emp draconic your spell selection will suffer but that's the price you pay. Depending on which way you want to go id either go 2 levels of paladin for the more traditional DD EK or for the idea above where you tie everything into wis id recommend 2 levels sohei monk for weapon profs and dippable monk goodness combine with master of many styles for crane ridiculous defenses 4 cross blooded emp draconic sor 4 DD 10 EK but unless you just have to have it id drop DD and either split those levels between monk and sort or just put them in sod.
proftobe wrote:
He could go cross blooded DD emp draconic your spell selection will suffer but that's the price you pay. Depending on which way you want to go id either go 2 levels of paladin for the more traditional DD EK or for the idea above where you tie everything into wis id recommend 2 levels sohei monk for weapon profs and dippable monk goodness combine with master of many styles for crane ridiculous defenses 4 cross blooded emp draconic sor 4 DD 10 EK but unless you just have to have it id drop DD and either split those levels between monk and sort or just put them in sod.

edit damnable you auto correct its sor above both times

Lantern Lodge
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If EK is ur main shtick then i suggest 4 levels fighter, 6 sorcerer, and 10 Ek. The reason for the 4 levels of fighter so u can qualify for Critical Mastery. For feats get Critical Mastery, Critical Focus, Sickening Critical, Exhausting Critical, Tiring Critical, Improved Critical, Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Skill Focus, Eldritch Heritage, Improved Eldritch Heritage, and Greater Eldritch Heritage. Using the Heritage feats u can buy bloodline special abilities. The rest of the feats is to make ur crits insane. Ur crits will give the sicken condition as well as the exhausted condition along with being able to do weapon crit damage and EK's special ability of casting a spell as a swift action when u crit. With a crit of 15+ on a d20 this should be occurring very often.

Ok, so, I have to lose either the empyreal bloodine or the dragon disciple levels. The dd grants +4 strength and +2 ac. Empyreal will let me put the 9 in charisma instead of int which is nice. So I'd be looking at Sohei monk 2/sorc 8/EK 10 for a BAB of 15, CL 18 wis to ac and evasion or P2/s4/dd4/ek10 for a BAB of 17 CL 16 and a hefty save bonus. To be honest, the extra attack doesn't matter that much to me. Both sound enticing.

Which would you guys recommend?
Lantern Lodge

Also when it come to spells go with offensive spells that dont have a save or save for 1/2 damage. Otherwise utility spells like fly, haste, mage armor, shield, ext would be best.

How about Zen Archer Monk and Arcane Archer instead of dips and EK? You can attack with Wisdom this way as well.

One, it's core only. And 2, I prefer melee.

Have you seen this guide to the EK?

It might help give you some direction, and insights into the pros and cons of each build.
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ecw1701 wrote:


Have you seen this guide to the EK?

It might help give you some direction, and insights into the pros and cons of each build.

Fantastic guide, thanks for the link!

JRR wrote:
One, it's core only. And 2, I prefer melee.

I think people might be losing the core only requirement since you are specifically talking about the empyreal bloodline which is not core.

Yeah. I should say it's core only, unless approved. While I might get a feat or two approved, I'm not going to be able to draw from a lot of different products. I specifically asked about the empyreal bloodline,as something I might try to get approved. Since that's out, (the thread title really needs changed) I need to stick to 99% core.

Core only?

Try a Fighter/Wizard.
Lv1: F1, BAB 1, Favored Enemy (your choice), Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Toughness
Lv2: W1(Conjurer, banning Necromancy and Enchantment), BAB 1, Spells, Familiar (Something with flying is always good).
LV3: W2 BAB 2, Feat: Arcane Armor Training (Get mithril chainshirt, till then, just cast mage armor)
Lv4: W3
Lv5: W4 BAB 3, Feat: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Lv6: W5: Bonus Feat: Still Spell
Lv7: EK1: BAB 4, Feats: Augment Summoning, Arcane Strike
Lv8: EK2: BAB 5
Lv9: EK3: BAB 6/1, Feat: Weapon Specialization (Falchion)
Lv10: EK4, BAB: 7/2
Lv11: W6: BAB: 8/3, Feat: Quicken Spell (for true strike, or any other level 1 buff if you dont mind risking a 10% arcane spell failure)
Lv12: EK5: BAB 9/4 Critical Focus (I'm assuming by this time your weapon is keen and you are using Greater Weapon Focus to keep it enhanced)
Lv13: EK6 BAB 10/5, Feat: Improved Familiar (tbh, you should take it earlier...I guess you can swap this with Quicken Spell, and at this point you can quicken level 2 spells)
Lv15: EK 8, BAB: 12/7/2, Greater Weapon Focus (Falchion)
Lv16: EK 9, BAB 13/8/3, Feats: Bleeding Critical
Lv17: EK 10, BAB: 14/9/5, Feat: Iron Will
Lv18: W7, BAB: 14/9/5
Lv19: W8, BAB: 15/10/5, Feat: Improved Iron Will
Lv20: F2, BAB: 16/11/6/1, Feat: Penetrating Strike

This is Core Only. You can cast level 9 spells by level 19 (if you go that far)

You hit your opponents quite hard (You ignore part of the DR and are adding a bunch of damage thanks to power attack, arcane strike, and such)

The last level is of fighter for both the extra feat (P Strike) and for the extra attack (which can be quickened)

Your character loves to crit, what with a high crit weapon, a critical feat, and spell critical

I should add: Although Arcane armor training and still spell seem redundant, you can't just rely on always stilling spells (as that will essentially send you back 2 caster levels worth of casting since your spells are at +1 level), at higher levels, still spell is awesome for stuff like spell critical and activating arcane strike, and following with a scorching ray
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