Darksol, the OP was not citing what the PC did in that second post. He was asking how my application of trip worked and then offered his understanding of how trip worked. Note: He did not provide a complete example and his understanding was incorrect. A complete example would have included the action after standing up (5' step to get close or a move action).
In short: The PC was not violating the rules. The OP's example was.
Also, as pointed out by others. While standing up provokes an AoO that AoO cannot be another trip as you are prone. The AoO is provoked before you actually stand up (while you are prone).
- Gauss
Isn't a Longspear a reach weapon? Can't he just trip with that?
While the details of the instance aren't specific (or even mentioned at all), it's still important that they all understand to read the fine print. It's not like my accusation can be listed for just a player, a GM might fudge up in such a way as well, and I'm sure it has occurred to some people before.
And yes, I was told this, and I'll have a nice little talk with my GM about that, should it come up in the near future...
@ Quandary: Yes, it does not matter what happened in the previous round, but if I do a movement action, and I end my turn after that movement action, I can't use the Step Up feat within that round because I can't take a 5-foot step within the same round (which encompasses and includes a character's turn) as per the noted description.
I do believe Following Step bypasses such a rule, but don't quote me on that...
following step only increases the distance to 10' and removes the repurcussions on your next turn. nothing else.
while there is normally a relationship between 5' stepping and movement on the same round
(rounds can start/end either before or after your turn, so you can't generalize like you did)
it's still obvious to me that step up is an exceptional ability, so when it says you do X in response to Y,
the normal limitations on doing X aren't applying because Step Up isn't recognizing any relevant limits.
i don't know, ask JJ or something if you're curious..,
You can trip with anything, you can trip with your armor spikes. A weapon does not need the trip property to trip with. But you cannot trip with a reach weapon if you cannot threaten with it.
If PC is 5' from the BBEG that has the reach weapon then BBEG cannot trip using the reach weapon. The point is that the BBEG needs to use his first attack (Trip) to trip the PC so that he can step 5' away and THEN use the remaining attacks with his reach weapon. The OP thought Trip was a standard action (rather than an attack).
- Gauss
Drink a fly potion and stab them from ten feet up in the air, perhaps.
+1
If that's good enough to counter a flying enemy it's good enough to counter a step up guy, too.
You can trip with anything, you can trip with your armor spikes. A weapon does not need the trip property to trip with. But you cannot trip with a reach weapon if you cannot threaten with it.
If PC is 5' from the BBEG that has the reach weapon then BBEG cannot trip using the reach weapon. The point is that the BBEG needs to use his first attack (Trip) to trip the PC so that he can step 5' away and THEN use the remaining attacks with his reach weapon. The OP thought Trip was a standard action (rather than an attack).
- Gauss
However, you can make unarmed trip attempts. So a polearm wielding fighter can make trip attempts adjacent and at reach. You'd just simply lose the weapon specific bonuses to the unarmed trip attempt.
However, you can make unarmed trip attempts. So a polearm wielding fighter can make trip attempts adjacent and at reach. You'd just simply lose the weapon specific bonuses to the unarmed trip attempt.
And eat an AoO if you don't have improved trip.
Switch weapons? Easy as a move action.
This was my thought. If your BBEG is built completely around the use of a single weapon, your PC's will find a way around it.
Heck...disarm. Now whatcha gonna do, Mr Fancy Pants?
Heck...disarm. Now whatcha gonna do, Mr Fancy Pants?
Or AM BARBARIAN say "No use long pointy stick. AM SUNDER !"
Have him die off screen and have him be reincarnated as a lizardfolk or halforc with a bite attack.
However, you can make unarmed trip attempts. So a polearm wielding fighter can make trip attempts adjacent and at reach. You'd just simply lose the weapon specific bonuses to the unarmed trip attempt.And eat an AoO if you don't have improved trip.
How often are people attempting melee combat maneuvers without the improved maneuver feats? I just sort of assumed that was implied by "you should have him start tripping guys".
How often are people attempting melee combat maneuvers without the improved maneuver feats? I just sort of assumed that was implied by "you should have him start tripping guys".
I often see wielders of reach weapons trip without having improved trip, because if the thing they are tripping doesn't have reach, then can get away without taking the AoO. I've seen it a few times by characters that are trying to shield a caster but don't have stand still. They realize that they can't hit hard enough with an AoO to stop the attacker, and they don't want to grapple, so they decide to just eat the AoO to try to trip anyway. I've also seen it used against opponents attempting to flee.
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following step only increases the distance to 10' and removes the repurcussions on your next turn. nothing else.
while there is normally a relationship between 5' stepping and movement on the same round
(rounds can start/end either before or after your turn, so you can't generalize like you did)
it's still obvious to me that step up is an exceptional ability, so when it says you do X in response to Y,
the normal limitations on doing X aren't applying because Step Up isn't recognizing any relevant limits.
i don't know, ask JJ or something if you're curious..,
Step up is an immediate action. Immediate actions "recharge" after the end of your turn, so, using this ability you burn out the immediate/swift action of the following turn and the 5' step of the same turn.
Generally abilities "recharge" at the start of your turn but the use of immediate actions is an exceptions.