What does retaliatory strike in panther style mean? walk me through it.

[Lobolusk]

so If i have a +8 wisdom modifier and I use panther style feat chain can I make 8 attacks against my opponent? before his AAO?

Panther Claw
Prerequisite: Wis 15, Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike, Panther Style.

Benefit: While using Panther Style, you can spend a free action, instead of spending a swift action, to make a retaliatory unarmed strike. You can make a number of retaliatory unarmed strikes on your turn equal to your Wisdom modifier.

An orc with an axe, is standing there I walk up past him he takes the AOO, I have panther style activated and the full feat chain, what happens next?

If i get 8 attacks what is the BAB i use? I have 14/9

[Weables]

No, you get 1 attack.

Quote:

Benefit: While using Panther Style, you can spend a free action, instead of spending a swift action, to make a retaliatory unarmed strike.

I've bolded a very important letter there. you may make A retaliatory strike, not 8.

You just may do it to 7 other people, assuming you move far enough to draw from them all

[Lobolusk]

I have to respectfully disagree the next line says: you can make a number of retaliatory unarmed strikes on your turn equal to your Wisdom modifier.
it says on your round and that implies during the retaliatory attack. this is specifically worded differently has an AAO
and implies to my reading that I can take 8? I am 100 percent willing to admit I am wrong.

[Darth Grall]

And I'm afraid I must say you are wrong Lobolusk.

First lets look at Panther Style, at the original ability.

Quote:

While using this style, when an opponent makes an attack of opportunity against you for moving through a threatened square, you can spend a swift action to make a retaliatory unarmed strike attack against that opponent. Your attack is resolved after the triggering attack of opportunity.

This lets you make a single retalitory attack after provoking an AoO. The trigger for the ability, is being attacked while moving through threated spaces.

Now lets look at Panther Claw, the ability in question.

Quote:

While using Panther Style, you can spend a free action, instead of spending a swift action, to make a retaliatory unarmed strike.

This sentance changes Panther Style's attacks to a free action, where as before it was a swift. It in no way, shape or form says that you can make multiple attacks per AoO.

You could make an attack for every AoO made on you during your turn. Why even use a standard to attack? You could wipe out a field of mooks in 2 moves... But that would be crazy, so they added the next line.

Quote:

You can make a number of retaliatory unarmed strikes on your turn equal to your Wisdom modifier.

This limits the number of stikes you can make on your turn. So no crazy chain of retalitory strikes from double moving. Darn. But this sentance doesn't say anything about making more than one attack per target or change the way the core feat works.

In effect, this feat takes an ability that let you get a conditional free attack that costs a swift and removes its action cost and puts a limit on the number of attacks. To read anything else... Is trying to read what's not there.

[Lobolusk]

its fine, I have moved on. I have been looking at Style feats and trying to find one that is effective and fits my character, Panther style is cool but I don't see the point with out being able to make multiple attacks for 3 feats. I am not seeing what you are reading.

never mind I honestly don't care, IT is not worth discussing, I disagree with the reading but am not taking the feat style. so it doesn't matter

[TGMaxMaxer]

Take MoMS and panther/snake style with Vicious Stomp and combat reflexes.

Move past an enemy, provoke, take the panther AoO to trip(from wis pool of AoOs), take the Vicious Stomp free attack(from Dex pool), he gets his attack, if it misses you get to snake style AoO(from Dex pool) and if that snake attack hits you get to snake fang(from dex pool).

If you can work in Gr trip as well, you get another attack on the trip, per another thread where Vicious Stomp and Greater Trip both provoke for the same trip. Thats 8 feats, but you get up 4 to 5 attacks for each provoked enemy, altho you will be so MAD you will run out in the first 2 targets.

You don't do much on your turn(no flurry, no feats for TWF) but my 12th level MoMS with panther/snake/crane gets to triple tap up to 4 enemies that he moves by with a dex of 26 and a wis of 18, and a movement of 60.

[Hayato Ken]

How good is your trip chance and what damage do you do?
Guess you taken weapon finesse and agile maneuvers?

[Deylinarr]

monk in my campaign has Panther and +4 WIS. he was attacked by 5 orcs....he ran thru the first 4, provoked 4 AOOs, took his 4 strikes (one on each) then used his attack to hit #5. #5 got spooked and decided to run so monk took an AOO as he ran away. its was a pretty cool round

[Lobolusk]

Hayato Ken wrote:

How good is your trip chance and what damage do you do?

Guess you taken weapon finesse and agile maneuvers?

I am a grapple monk not a trip monk. i ended up with Dragonstyle and efreti style. 2 feat investments in both I can post my character if you would like to see.

[Chris Manos]

Panther style isn't built for you to run past one opponent and take it out as you do...it's built so you can run past MULTIPLE opponents, taking whats at all of them as you run past them.

My monk is going to be taking this. He is tooling up to be the guy who charges the sorcerer/wizard, stuns it, and then in the next round pummels the crap out of her. Having the ability to take shots at the 6 guys standing between me and her is just bonus. Having the ability to trip them as I run past them, before they can AoO, and before the cleaving fighter gets there is also a good thing.

[Hayato Ken]

I see.

I was wondering for some time already how you can make something good of these new monk feats, so im interested.

[Doug OBrien]

Hayato Ken wrote:

I see.

I was wondering for some time already how you can make something good of these new monk feats, so im interested.

I'm in the same boat, as I've had monk ideas on the back burner for a while now. All the new options are great, but take a lot of time and consideration to filter through for the right fit.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Just need weapon finesse, trip/disarm/sunder are all FAQ'd to be usable dex for CMB if the maneuver is able to be done with a finesse weapon, unarmed are finessable weapons. Agile maneuvers is if you want it to drag, reposition, bull rush, etc. Those 3 are specifically called out tho.

CMB is 10bab+8dex+4feats+8fury's fall=30 (most CR 12 have 32-36CMD, A 12th level fighter with 26 Str and 16 Dex has 33+magic, which should be matched by your magic). Damage is 2d6+8 Monks robes + agile AoMF alone.

What you have to remember is that AoOs use your full attack bonus, no iteratives. This has to be built around to be good, but once you get it, it's much better than flurry was to begin with. At level 12, with 4 enemies i get 15 possible attacks at full bonus, with single target I get a trip and 5 attacks at full.

4 guys provoke with an AC of 32(mage armor, shield)Auto deflect one hit, and ~75% chance of tripping, getting 2 attacks with a +4 after that, 2d6+8 each on each one (Gr Trip, vicious Stomp) if they miss and you have any AoOs left you have snake fang too.

2 targets, run by, panther to trip each, if it works Gr Trip/Vicious Stomp each, if they miss Snake fang for one on one target and 2 on the other, (the feat only uses an immediate if you make both swings, so you can do one swing as many times as you have AoOs left).

For a single target, I use panther/crane/snake and run past, if the trip hits I get 5 +18 attacks for 2d6+8 each (panther trip, vicious stomp 1 AoO, Gr Trip AoO, Auto deflect crane, procs crane riposte, and since he missed his attack procs snake fang for 2 more AoOs).