Aubrey the Malformed |
I fail to see how "I was most likely born out of rape" was seen, or ever will be seen, as something cool.
Though I doubt the guy who had the idea even thought of the disturbing implication when making them.
Then again, I can imagine the guy didn't do much thinking in general, whoever it was that got the idea in the first place.
The half-orc is in Tolkien. They were bred by Saruman as spies. So they actually have a literary source and are less about random rampaging and rape and more about a cold-blooded breeding programme. The rape thing came more out of D&D - Gygax, most likely, though I don't recall if he ever explicitly referred to it himself. As for whether it's "cool" or not - it depends on what you want for a character's background. It can be a good device in that context without condoning rape as an activity.
Arslanxelan |
Except for Thrall who is one of the worst examples of a Mary Sue character, WOW has the alternative view of Orcs covered very well. Many other campaign settings use the orcs in many different ways. I am glad that in Golarion, the orc kind of takes a back seat. The Dragonlance campaign setting does not even have orcs. At least it did not in my days.
I think that Paizo should use the orc a little more. But I dont think that the character of the golarion orc should change at all. It is the golarion orc, not the wow orc. The wow orc is suppose to be a regular player race. So you see more variety of characters. The Golarion orc is a typical fantasy evil race, it has been for years before Orcs and Humans even existed and is more like Lord of the Ring, War Hammer and old D&D.
I have had players that have asked me to play orcs and the first thing that they do is scream FOR THE HORDE! It is quite annoying. Leave Golarion orcs as is but add one or two characters that are not typical for the race.
TerraNova RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
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Personally, I think the Orc as covered in the (admittedly not very strong) Orcs of Golarion works quite well. No need in making them carbon copies of Warcraft Post-Retcon orcs.
I like them to be savage, brutal and unapologetic about it - adding a dead little sister and two spoonfuls of having been oppressed by the man adds not too much ;) As I wrote way upthread, I think having so many different "orcs" in the public consciousness makes it very hard to use them effectively. Someone is bound to want the warrior poet when you write the savage, or want the demonic evil when you write the noble savage.
Adding a Orizzt-type "Good Orc"... nah. If anything, Belkzen needs a good strong warlord that really shows the neighbourhood a ton of orcs easily can be more hassle than they'd expect.
Archpaladin Zousha |
There ARE a few present in Curse of the Crimson Throne, but they're only a minor speed bump for the PCs on their way to a castle full of shadowy undead that's their real goal. Their presence is more window dressing, to indicate "we're close to the Belkzen border here" than anything else.
Mikaze |
I don't quite get why it has to be an "all or nothing" thing.
You can have non-evil orcs with a culture that isn't completely monstrous without losing those stereotypical orc tribes that really are as bad as those presented in Orcs of Golarion. That would provide a flavor of orcs desired by more people than if a single monoculture approach. (the extra benefit being that the old problem of sticking non-human races with a monoculture is neatly avoided)
Most of the protests against ever doing anything with orcs involving them being something other than complete monsters seem to suggest that it would take away those villainous orcs, rather than leaving them in place and adding more options and range for those that want something outside the narrow scope they're currently stuck with.
Mikaze |
Oddly, where Orcs of Golarion provided next to zero support for non-evil orcs(outside of two sideways lines tucked in there) and the ARG orc chapter provided even less, the ARG's half-orc chapter's background section and a feat in Blood of Angels provides more material for them than every other source combined...
DM_aka_Dudemeister |
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A community of Orcs trying to become a part of a broader human society would be both interesting and hilarious. Imagine a tribe, defeated by Lastwall that throw down their weapons and surrender. Obviously Last Wall is stronger, so the only option is to join the Lastwall Tribe. These orcs with white body paint and black shields are learning about chivalry and honor, but their natural inclinations to rage and fight get in the way.
"Today we're going to learn about writing."
"Ugrash killed Ugrash pencil."
"*sigh*... No Ugrash, you broke the pencil."
"Oh! Ugrash smashed Ugrash pencil. Ugrash need new pencil!"
"Get one from the tin. Okay class, let's start simple. A is for..."
"ARBALEST!"
"No! I mean... well yes, but I was thinking apple. This is going to be a long day."
The Lastwall tribe are incredibly loyal to Lastwall, but often need to be reigned in before their natural inclination to frenzy causes unnecessary death and mayhem.
See it can be done: Orcs can be orcs, but they can have a little more range in a game beyond swordcushions.
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal |
"Today we're going to learn about writing."
"Ugrash killed Ugrash pencil."
"*sigh*... No Ugrash, you broke the pencil."
"Oh! Ugrash smashed Ugrash pencil. Ugrash need new pencil!"
"Get one from the tin. Okay class, let's start simple. A is for..."
"ARBALEST!"
"No! I mean... well yes, but I was thinking apple. This is going to be a long day."
'Agony!'
'Anguish!''Armor!'
'Ardor!' There was a Shelynite cleric sub-ing the day before...
'Arquebus!'
'Alchemy!'
'Arama-lama-din-dong!' Damn Cayleanites...
'Attorney!' Those Abadar/Asmodean clerics, always getting their noses in...
(un)Fortunately, I'm not sure how long I can keep that idea going, but it amused the hell out of me. It also brought to mind the old truism that all humor is born in or from pain.
Orc Bards should know this in their bones...
thejeff |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"crong hope crong get to verb conjugation before end of week"A community of Orcs trying to become a part of a broader human society would be both interesting and hilarious. Imagine a tribe, defeated by Lastwall that throw down their weapons and surrender. Obviously Last Wall is stronger, so the only option is to join the Lastwall Tribe. These orcs with white body paint and black shields are learning about chivalry and honor, but their natural inclinations to rage and fight get in the way.
"Today we're going to learn about writing."
"Ugrash killed Ugrash pencil."
"*sigh*... No Ugrash, you broke the pencil."
"Oh! Ugrash smashed Ugrash pencil. Ugrash need new pencil!"
"Get one from the tin. Okay class, let's start simple. A is for..."
"ARBALEST!"
"No! I mean... well yes, but I was thinking apple. This is going to be a long day."The Lastwall tribe are incredibly loyal to Lastwall, but often need to be reigned in before their natural inclination to frenzy causes unnecessary death and mayhem.
"gok look forward to first-person pronouns"
"capital letters intrigue mungu"
Gregg Helmberger |
I would rather see more done with hobgoblins. They are far more underutilized.
I think there's room for an orc-centric AP and a hobgoblin-centric AP, and I think they should both eventually be done. After all, the represent very different kinds of threats. Orcs want to kill, destroy, pillage, rape, burn, slaughter, and leave the land a ruin in their wake. An orc invasion would (despite protests upthread) look very much like the Mongol horde that reduced the population of Asia by 50%.
Hobgoblins, on the other hand, are brutal and regimented disciplinarians who want to come, conquer, enslave, and build an empire -- think of them as Romans without the better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order.
I wouldn't suggest doing these two APs back to back, but put them five or six years apart and I wouldn't have a problem with them.
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal |
" All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Hobgoblins done for us?"
Life of Brian reference ftw!!!
Scribbling Rambler |
JJ has said in the past that he used enough hobgoblins in "Red Hand of Doom" to last for quite a while. And they are featured fairly prominently in at least one AP volume
Orcs are central in Part 1 of the "Echoes of the Everwar" PFS scenario, and I believe used in others (tho my knowledge is incomplete, and shaky at the moment).