So we were going to do a Carrion King group, but then we realized we could get the anniversary edition of Rise of the RuneLords.
The group rolled dice (3d6, re rolled 1s) and each grabbed a random set of stats and built characters from those stats by arranging them in what order they liked, and then modified based on race.
This is what they came up with. I let the characters all start out at level 2, because two players want to be multi class, and it just made sense to let them start with the two classes, so the non multi class characters just have a second level.
Tamarie
Female Half Elf Oracle 2
Mystery: Lore
Str 11
Dex 9
con 11
Int 15
Wis 16
Cha 20
hp 18
Revelation side step secret
Curse Clouded Vision
she took dangerously curious and reactionary as traits
Feat Bouncing Spell
Alternate racial trait :water child (because shes not going to multiclass)
Rance
Male Half Elf Magus(hex crafter)/Inquisitor
Inquisition :Anger
Str 12
Dex 11
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 15
Cha 9
Hp 16
Ancestral Arms :Bastard Sword
Feat: Improved Judgement
Kai
Male Elf Ronin 2
Str 15
Dex 18
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 11
Hp 21
Feat Weapon Finesse
(Since the Shadow in the Sky AP, I have always run Elves as "Japanese" because I wanted them to be "alien" and a bit less "tolkien" So ninja, Samurai, the different armor and weapons are all "elven" Plus the "Ninja" fit in with the winter council and mounted Archers seemed very elf-like to me.)
Jo Yimbo
Dwarf Male Drunken Monk/Internal alchemist
Str 10
Dex 16
con 15
int 11
wis 15
cha 7
hp 18
feat magical savant (adds 4 to int for purposes of qualifying for extracts etc)
So there they are (basically) They're a little weak and scattered.
Comments?
How limited will the Ronin (cavalier) be with his mount in RotRL? He is pretty happy with leaving it behind as necessary (like the Lone Ranger and Silver) he played a Ronin in serpents skull and got to use the horse a lot (lots and lots of ride checks)
Will this crew get trashed?
I havent even Read the AP yet.
no experience on the AP whatsoever, but i have two comments:
1. never give rance an opportunity to woo any npcs/party members. it wont end well, or it will end really well.
2. i heartily chuckled at "jo yimbo", give that player a pat on the back for me.
No experience on the AP as well, but have my own comments.
1. The party might be a little weak, but if it comes down to it, it is just as easy to modify for a weaker party as it is a stronger party. Just be wary of the first few encounters to get an idea of how they will fare.
2. I REALLY like the elves are japanese theme. Japanese style aspects (ninja ect) have always had an odd spot in the scheme of things and this seems to be a good remedy. I will have to look further.
3. As for balance, they all seem relatively close to each other (usually the main concern) but I think that the magus will suffer due to the lower str (but I dont know much about the magus). I do wonder where the dwarf is going (I have never seen that combination together before and cannot predict where he is going. Mostly alchemist or mostly monk?). I have seen alchemist/drunken barbarian work well, but I cannot fathom where he is going. Please enlighten me :D Also recommend both the fast drinker and the deep drinker feats, tho he probably already knows about them.
4. what is this magical savant feat? I have never seen it before and it looks good. Real good. Would like to know more.
So ya it can work and probably well if they have good teamwork. Good luck!
Edit: 5. Another good idea for the dwarf, have him find the fabled anymug and have him carry that around everywhere! as he is an alchemist, he can grow another arm to hold it if need be, but you will have to design it.
well the rolls were all done by one person not knowing what character or stat, then they just all grabbed a blank character sheet (except for stats) and then arranged them as they saw fit.
The magus/inquisitor is in a tight spot because he needs INT and WIS, but things like STR can be overcome easily with buff spells, if he reaches 6th level in inquisitor, he can rage.
Eventually we will go for broad study too.
The Monk? where is he going? Drunk guy who will drink everything, including anything he makes. Kinda a self absorbed alchemist who only uses his extracts on himself, if he can drink it he will.
It's sort of a comedy character, and looking to use the drinking feats. But I think he might eventually go for a master chymist drunken boxer, but im not sure, just lots of laughing with that one.
They are a bit weak, but none of us really like Over built characters that min max. Our style of fun usually involves running down hallways of dungeons screaming "we're gonna die we're gonna die!" being chased by kobolds or goblins.
Edit: in fact one of my wife's characters who was seriously bad a$$ (half drow heretic inquisitor duel wielding katanas) was hoarded and killed by a pack of goblins in 1 round while the rest of the party wandered the tunnels because they assumed she could handle them.
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For the most part, they should be fine. Check out the obituaries thread for trouble spots and think about modifying them a bit if it seems the group is under-performing. Leave the rest alone.
For the most part, they should be fine. Check out the obituaries thread for trouble spots and think about modifying them a bit if it seems the group is under-performing. Leave the rest alone.
I can always toss iin a few extra (or early) magic items, potions are always a good way to make that happen.
I was thinking of a GMPC if necessary, kinda like a gandalf type Poof he shows up to save the day, hey ganda-- where the heck DID he go? (a druid would be cool for this, could always follow the team around as a tit mouse or a bat)
upon closer review the group has decided to do curse of the crimson throne, reason being:
1) The Ronin and Magus/inquisitor are set up as "anarchists" in a way and their character themes have more room for development and interaction/ clashes with the ongoing story line.
2) I promised to make Gray Maidens Cavaliers for the most part and make them a full on order, and as such lots of room to clash with the ronin (a cavalier hunted by cavaliers)
The Ronin is actually a former Samurai of the Winter Council who came into being at odds with their choices and has left their order (thus making him ronin)
3) the monk thought he might have more opportunities to drink and make merry.
The party is largely neutral (as most of our group has become over the years, being tired by the limitations and same ole same ole of goodie goods) :
The Oracle is Neutral, most interested in personal power above all else.
The ronin, also neutral (elves are not chaotic good by default in my campaigns but typically Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, with the Winter Council being Lawful Neutralish which makes elves in my campaigns often non-evil villains and/or distrusted at best, I wanted to make the elves not a clear choice as being "better" than the grow, but rather another side to a civil war) In this case, an anarchist made by what he sees as insane rule and unrighteous dominion, the Ronin believes in balance of power above all else. His character intends to take 2nd order feats and be both a ronin and follow the edicts of the order of the griffon (SGG) which puts freedom above all else as its primary edict. I thought this would be interesting to put him at odds with the gray maidens.
The Magus/Inquisitor has really the best reason to be in this story line as his character was always from korvosa and sick of it's philanderous tyrants (hence the anger inquisition) The magus is a student of older times and ancient civilizations that he holds as an ideal that land should return to (old Azlant in particular) the magus is Chaotic Neutral, before he chose character class or even saw his stats rolled, his concept was to be a brooding angry sword swinging guy mad at the establishment, any establishment.
The monk, well he actually made his character because everyone wanted to see a drunken monk/ alchemist, his character is essentially a vagabond who tries to get people to leave him alone by appearing drunken (when he actually never is) The character is meant to be like a Pathfinder version of the "Bane" Villan in Batman, a puglist who maximizes his abilities with chemical infusions. Hence the idea of the drunken monk alchemist, the character is dwarven to maximize the drinking feats.
Edit: in fact one of my wife's characters who was seriously bad a$$ (half drow heretic inquisitor duel wielding katanas) was hoarded and killed by a pack of goblins in 1 round while the rest of the party wandered the tunnels because they assumed she could handle them.
a pack of goblins? with those penalties? i AM impressed.
They look like a lot of fun to play with, and Curse of the Crimson Throne is a good adventure path - am finishing it now in a group. It's probably better suited to this group too.
Additional question,
We just got Ultimate combat (we havent played for about a year) and the Kensai is very intriguing for the magus character.
His initial concept of hexes, curses, and judgements while loping heads was based on elric of melibone (no he didn't want blade bound because it's more "fun" to find magic)
The question is two fold: What do you all think, would the kensai be a better fit than hex crafter for this? being split class he might never get than many hexes anyway, Kensai allows him to take an exotic blade without ancestral arms, which means he could get a skill focus instead... any thoughts? preferences? None of us have played out a build like this and can't really predict how is build will go, but we can see the kensai being interesting,,,, his ultimate goal isn't alot of spells, but more powers, like arcana, hexes and judgements.
Second part: how does a kensai get ANY AC? he's armor less, just DEX, shield and armor spells (and or magic items later?)
Let me get this straight, he has access to shield and mage armor and you are asking how he gets AC? That's +8 to AC there and then. High Dex will do the rest.
Overall, either will work, in fact the unarmoured kensai will probably attract less attention in the city than the other concept.
Let me get this straight, he has access to shield and mage armor and you are asking how he gets AC? That's +8 to AC there and then. High Dex will do the rest.
Overall, either will work, in fact the unarmoured kensai will probably attract less attention in the city than the other concept.
Mage Armor is not on the Magus spell list. Nevertheless Kensai get an AC Boost with Canny Defense (if they have an intel bonus). Canny defense also lets them walk around in light armor- just use one of the very light ones with no spell failure chance.
Kensai gets Dex bonus, Int Bonus, Mage armor (through arcana), ring of protection, Nat armor amulet, and shield spell. Later, bracers of armor. Sure, at level 1 he might be slightly in the Low AC side. But later on, he'll be damn high.
Classic build of dervish dancing kensai elf with dex 18 and Int 16, will get later on:
+6 or higher bracer armor
+4 shield spell
+8 dex (with +6 belt and level pumps)
+6 int (with +6 headband)
+4 Nat armor
+4 Ring of prot
for +42 AC at lvl 15 or even sooner. That's not counting Combat Expertise, dodge, luck bonus ioun stones, or other stuff. Only the basic gear. Using Combat expertise and focusing in AC, it's doable to have 50+ AC as a kensai. Not counting Mirror Image and Displacement.
Kensai gets Dex bonus, Int Bonus, Mage armor (through arcana), ring of protection, Nat armor amulet, and shield spell. Later, bracers of armor. Sure, at level 1 he might be slightly in the Low AC side. But later on, he'll be damn high.
Classic build of dervish dancing kensai elf with dex 18 and Int 16, will get later on:
+6 or higher bracer armor
+4 shield spell
+8 dex (with +6 belt and level pumps)
+6 int (with +6 headband)
+4 Nat armor
+4 Ring of protfor +42 AC at lvl 15 or even sooner. That's not counting Combat Expertise, dodge, luck bonus ioun stones, or other stuff. Only the basic gear. Using Combat expertise and focusing in AC, it's doable to have 50+ AC as a kensai. Not counting Mirror Image and Displacement.
SO you have all seen this guy has an 11 dex right?
Kensai gets Dex bonus, Int Bonus, Mage armor (through arcana), ring of protection, Nat armor amulet, and shield spell. Later, bracers of armor. Sure, at level 1 he might be slightly in the Low AC side. But later on, he'll be damn high.
Classic build of dervish dancing kensai elf with dex 18 and Int 16, will get later on:
+6 or higher bracer armor
+4 shield spell
+8 dex (with +6 belt and level pumps)
+6 int (with +6 headband)
+4 Nat armor
+4 Ring of protfor +42 AC at lvl 15 or even sooner. That's not counting Combat Expertise, dodge, luck bonus ioun stones, or other stuff. Only the basic gear. Using Combat expertise and focusing in AC, it's doable to have 50+ AC as a kensai. Not counting Mirror Image and Displacement.
SO you have all seen this guy has an 11 dex right?
Your question was "Second part: how does a kensai get ANY AC? he's armor less, just DEX, shield and armor spells (and or magic items later?)". Not how this specific kensai magus get AC.
Talking specifically about your PC, you said they can arrange their stats. He could have Dex 16 and int 15, with Wisdom 12 if he plans to be more magus than inquisitor or Dex 16, int 12, Wis 15, if he plans to be more inquisitor than magus (which I won't suggest).
If he choses not to, and he leaves Dex 11 in a melee character with Con 12 and no armor, then he'll die unless you as the DM fudge the dice a lot, or play the monsters unwisely on purpose. Some of the encounters in Carrion Crown are decently tough, and a completelly underpowered character such as this (a melee character with 12 str, BAB 0, +1 to hit, no armor at all, and low con and hit dice) will get his ass handed to him in a silver plate.
Just my 0.02
I would say that the main function of this hobby, including PFS, is to have fun. Make a character you think is cool!
One of the things I find the most fun is not dying in my first adventure because of a failure to think my character through...!
Well what this particular player is going for is a sword focused character with lots of "powers" judgements and arcana both do that.
Going hex crafter gave him access gave him access to a few hexes. Spells etc. can make up for a lack of physical stats, The idea isnt "in the build" so much as making the best of what you got.
Stats were randomly rolled, not managed points. When you keep doing that, stats blocks all start looking the same.
Carrion Crown didn't seem very hard at low level, we went through it with an arcane heavy group. But I noticed this particular AP has alot of high AC and high HP adversaries, lots of melee.
He could do very well for himself if he went barbarian with the stats he has, but rage powers I guess weren't want he had in mind.
Most of the past characters he has played have always been the type that over shadow the whole campaign (When beta was out he made a half-orc aracne archer which was crazy insane)
so we tossed out point buy and even rolling your own stats (suspicions of cheating) so the only thing thats left in this case is making due with the stats that have been rolled.
The other consideration is, going with a 4 person party, to cover all aspects of party needs.
The Magus covers some arcane, the inquisitor gives some access to occasional heal and the skill monkey/monster beater of a ranger.
He's got a lot of tricks he can play with if he can manage to stay alive, however, I think the entire party is in that boat, with the exception of the Ronin who is probably the best suited for survivability but has the least "pow" when it comes to Role Play interaction with NPCs and getting things done in the story line.
Stats were randomly rolled, not managed points. When you keep doing that, stats blocks all start looking the same.
But can he arrange the rolls? Or it's rolled in order?
If he can arrange the rolls, then he can go with Dex 16 and INT 15, with Wis 12. He gets judgments, and arcana, but he also gets *some* armor to survive, and better chances to hit (with weapon finesse)
The extra level (they start at 2) will be helpful to survive the first encounters, but even then, I doubt a con 12 character, with Dex 11 and no armor, that goes to melee, can survive unless the DM fudge the dice a lot or play the monsters unwisely on purpose :/
Stats were randomly rolled, not managed points. When you keep doing that, stats blocks all start looking the same.
But can he arrange the rolls? Or it's rolled in order?
If he can arrange the rolls, then he can go with Dex 16 and INT 15, with Wis 12. He gets judgments, and arcana, but he also gets *some* armor to survive, and better chances to hit (with weapon finesse)
The extra level (they start at 2) will be helpful to survive the first encounters, but even then, I doubt a con 12 character, with Dex 11 and no armor, that goes to melee, can survive unless the DM fudge the dice a lot or play the monsters unwisely on purpose :/
No they can re-order how ever they like:
Some changes to characters based on board feed back:
Rance
Male Half-Orc Barbarian/Oracle (1/1 eventually going to pick up inquisitor is going to be a Rage Prophet with more levels of Inquisitor than Oracle)
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 15
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 9
Hp 19
He hasn't finished picking feats. He's Going for a haunted ancestor theme where his character has the haunted curse, ancestor mystery and ancestor inquisition where he's a conduit for lost shoanti guardian of the old pyramid.
Jo Yimbo
Human Magus (Kensai) lvl 2 - he was helping the other player with the magus build, and got wrapped up in it himself
Str 13
Dex 16
con 11
int 15
wis 10
cha 9
hp 17
he's thinking of going with a katana as well. not sure is he should go half elf for the flavor but i suggested he might be better off with human and the extra feat, although he's not piked the feats yet, I was suggesting toughness to offset the lack of extra hp from con.
anyone have suggestions for feats for these fellows?
Rance decided to take the Magical Savant (inquisitors edge PDF) to overcome his Cha of 9 (so he can at least cast some Oracle spells.
The question is:
I know I saw something about ancestry before to go with his concept of being haunted by ancient an ancient shoanti guardian, but i cant find it, was it a mystery, an inquisition, a domain? in an PDF somewhere? I know I saw ancestry when I was helping the female oracle make her character (she eventually chose a lore oracle) but I cant for the life of me find it now
question 2 can you be a blade bound kensai? I havent even looked into it yet
nevermind i found ancentor mystery in UM, sheesh too many books!
what about a blade bound kensai, doable without home brew?
half orc and half elf female have decided they have the same human mother,
Mother was a Seer of the Shoanti who was shunned for harboring a half orc baby (conceived when she was captured in an orc raid) when mom decided to keep it she was cast out, ended up in Korvosa where she raised the child has human.
Rance has mostly human features, his teeth are less pronounced than normal ears could be mistaken for half elf, his skin is a tannish-green and his eyes glow red when it's dark.
He's going to take the tattooed alternate half orc racial trait as the tats help distract a bit from the fact he's not completely human as well. His haunting by shoanti spirit guardian is mainly the reason for his mostly humanness as well.
Tamarie was conceived when their mother took courtship with a certain Elf Noble in Korvosa, the Elf Noble chased Rance out at an early age due to all the weird haunting and anger issues. Tamarie and Rance do not know they are siblings (yet)
This also explains their both being oracles (inheriting the magic from their mother) yet have gone separate paths with it.
I kinda like the back story.
Rance's player still gets his brooding guy with magical power who waves a big sword
We still get out Arcane character (the group need one) with the Magus
And The Oracle has a really fleshed out backstory.
I think the Team is a little better fleshed out now. Rance and Jimbo were a little weak/ scattered.
The only issue is the monk character with his levels of alchemist was set up to be the defacto rogue with traps and stuff.
Now we don't have that so much.
Vagabond trait taken twice gives sleight of hand and disable device as class skills. trying to figure out who should take it.
Yes, you can be a bladebound kensai by raw. You can have as much archetypes as you want, as long as they replaces different class features.
About your characters, Toughness is a great feat at level 1, I suggest it to everyboyd as a GM. Even more so if you roll the stats and can't get a decent con.
The backstories sound good, I like the half-orc and half-elf being brothers. That's good stuff. The characters are mechanically better too, they have a much decent chance to survive now :)
Sleight of hand is not really needed, Disable device is.
Like the backstory. : )
According to the rules on Traits, you can't have more than one Trait from the same table, which precludes having Vagabond (or any other trait) twice.
ahhh yea, you're right, mentally I was just thinking different traits from the same category or traits that gave you the same trait bonus, I guess I snarfed on doubling the same trait for two different choices (Ive actually allowed double vagabond before! bad players! bad!)
Yes, you can be a bladebound kensai by raw. You can have as much archetypes as you want, as long as they replaces different class features.
About your characters, Toughness is a great feat at level 1, I suggest it to everyboyd as a GM. Even more so if you roll the stats and can't get a decent con.
The backstories sound good, I like the half-orc and half-elf being brothers. That's good stuff. The characters are mechanically better too, they have a much decent chance to survive now :)
Sleight of hand is not really needed, Disable device is.
thanks for the advice i havent played in a year so the rules etc were rusty.