Help with finding a PbP PC concept


Advice

Scarab Sages

In order to get some more player time as opposed to GM time, I am considering joining a PbP campaign. But, I'm running into a personal road block. I take forever to make up a concept then build a PC to match it. I read a recruitment thread and start to figure out something that would be ideal for that campaign. Long before I can get a character together, all of the players have been chosen.

Obviously, I need to build a character (or maybe 2) ahead of time. However, I’ve been told that generic characters are rarely chosen. So, I’ve got some contradictory requirements:

1) Unique or interesting enough to get chosen by the PbP GM.

2) General enough to be useful to most any group in most any campaign. What roles are hardest to fill in PbP campaigns?

3) Works well for PbP.
Ex1: I’ve read that a reach area controller fighter relies pretty heavily on a detailed map for tactical options. Since many PbP do not use maps much, it is difficult to get working well.
Ex2: keeping track of changing forms or multiple summoned creatures is difficult when not face-to-face. So summoners and shape changing druids don’t work well in PbP. Those are 2 examples I’ve read about, but I haven’t experienced PbP yet so I can not personally verify it is true.
{{ I have at least 1 person saying that example 2 is not valid and does work well for PbP. }}

4) Rule set to fit most campaigns with no or minimal tweaking. Seems like a half troll alchemist sythesist might not fit in a lot of campaigns. I think CRB only is too limiting. Many GM’s don’t like to use 3rd party stuff. Seems quite a few don’t have everything PF has put out. So I’m thinking CRB, APG, UM, UC, and UR. Since that is easily available on this site and still gives a huge number of possiblities. Does that seem reasonable?

5) I do not usually like to play humans (since I am one), unless it has something else very wild about it like the dragon disciple (though I liked the 3.5 version better than PF).

6) I am really bad at playing straight scouting rogues (I get bored constantly saying I’m checking everything for traps, then get blown up when I forget) or the primary party face (I invariably say something insulting to the wrong person).

7) Don’t like straight fighters with almost no skills (though lore wardens are pretty cool if allowed since it is PFS material).

8) I generally prefer sorcerers to wizards and oracles to clerics. I’m kinda meh on prepared primary casters. But this is not a hard and fast rule. I will consider if the concept seems interesting enough.

9) I will need to put together the build for a least a few levels since some of them don’t start at 1st.

So, can you folks help me out with some ideas?

I am especially interested in feedback from any of the PbP players and GM’s out there. Are my above assumptions valid? What would you particularly like to see (or never again want to see) in your games?

Silver Crusade

My friend, let me talk to you about the Bard.

The Bard is an excellent character.

He's got the skills to pay the bills
The ladies love him
The bard when build right can make an excellent controller and buffing character
Like many characters, the bard excels at ranged combat, raining death upon thine enemies while bolstering your allies with songs of glory
The bard is neither a primary caster nor is he a prepared caster, both which you stated you have an aversion to.
Did I mention the ladies love him?

Now, I noticed that you mentioned you don't like to be the party face, and that's something you will have to come to terms with as a bard, but this is really excellent practice for you.

Scarab Sages

I'm in 2 PbP's at the moment and the one I tend to check and post in over the other is the one with good RP. Like you said, PbP tend to rely less on maps and more on description so builds that really require a grid are clunky.

However, I'm going to disagree with you about shape-changers and summoners. Because you have time in a PbP to get all the numbers right, "zookeeper" builds fit very well. If you must, you can even create an alternate alias for your companion or alternate self and a third for your summons and post AS those things. That can really bring the creature to life instead of just having a floating stat block you there.

Speaking of stat blocks,

that's what spoilers are for:
you can easily hide any mass of numbers and textual detail so that only those that need to see actually do.

Same goes for shape changing. Post your altered stats in an unobtrusive way.

If you RP well, your chances of getting accepted go up, no matter the class or build.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

Disclaimer: this is from my experience only, which is admittedly limited. Still, worth at least 2cp.

Scarab Sages

Slight correction Elamdri.
I like primary casters, just not prepared primary casters.

I would consider a bard if I can get a build that is not the stupid singing, prancing, musician during battle versions. Most of those are just to rediculous for me to work with.
I cast a spell that helps people during battle, yes.
I sing a poem, tap dance, and play the xylophone during a battle and everyone is so impressed the fight goes my way... no.

Scarab Sages

Choon wrote:
... However, I'm going to disagree with you about shape-changers and summoners. Because you have time in a PbP to get all the numbers right, "zookeeper" builds fit very well. If you must, you can even create an alternate alias for your companion or alternate self and a third for your summons and post AS those things. That can really bring the creature to life instead of just having a floating stat block you there ...

Ok, I can see that. I was jost going by what I read in some other post a while ago. I guess we can put those back on the table for consideration. Do PbP GM's like to see them?

Choon wrote:
... If you RP well, your chances of getting accepted go up, no matter the class or build ...

Uhmm... Don't you generally have to get chosen before any real RP starts?

Silver Crusade

Seamus the 1st level Halfling Bard:

Seamus
Halfling Bard 1
CG Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +5; Senses Perception +7
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 10 (1d8+1)
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +5; +2 vs. fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Ranged Shortbow +4 (1d4-1/x3)
Special Attacks Bardic Performance (standard action) (8 rounds/day, Bardic Performance: Countersong, Bardic Performance: Distraction, Bardic Performance: Fascinate (1 targets) (DC 14), Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1
Bard Spells Known (CL 1, +0 melee touch, +4 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Hideous Laughter (DC 15), Grease (DC 15)
0 (at will) Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation (DC 14), Read Magic, Detect Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18
Base Atk +0; CMB -2; CMD 11
Feats Bard Weapon Proficiencies, Point Blank Shot
Traits Indomitable Faith, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +8 (+4 jump), Climb +0, Escape Artist +2, Fly +4, Perception +7, Perform (oratory) +8, Ride +2, Spellcraft +4, Stealth +10, Swim -2, Use Magic Device +8
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ Bardic Knowledge +1, Fearless
Combat Gear Shortbow, Studded leather armor; Other Gear Bard's kit
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (standard action) (8 rounds/day) - 0/8
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add + 1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (8 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (1 targets) (DC 14) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.

Seamus the 3rd level Halfling Bard:

Seamus
Male Halfling Bard 3
CG Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +5; Senses Perception +9
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 24 (3d8+3)
Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +6; +2 vs. fear, +4 vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependant effects
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Masterwork Rapier +3 (1d4-1/18-20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite shortbow (Str +0) +5 (1d4-1/x3)
Special Attacks Bardic Performance (standard action) (12 rounds/da, Bardic Performance: Countersong, Bardic Performance: Distraction, Bardic Performance: Fascinate (1 targets) (DC 15), Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +2, Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1
Bard Spells Known (CL 3, +2 melee touch, +6 ranged touch):
1 (4/day) Silent Image (DC 15), Hideous Laughter (DC 15), Grease (DC 15), Disguise Self
0 (at will) Message, Dancing Lights, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (DC 14), Read Magic, Detect Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18
Base Atk +2; CMB +0; CMD 13
Feats Bard Weapon Proficiencies, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Traits Indomitable Faith, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +11 (+7 jump), Climb +1, Diplomacy +10, Fly +5, Perception +9, Perform (oratory) +10, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +13, Use Magic Device +10
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ Bardic Knowledge +1, Fearless, Versatile Oratory +10, Well Versed
Combat Gear Masterwork Composite shortbow (Str +0), Masterwork Rapier, Mithral Chain shirt; Other Gear Bard's kit
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (standard action) (12 rounds/day) - 0/12
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add + 1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (12 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (1 targets) (DC 15) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +2 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into combat.
Versatile Oratory +10 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks
Well Versed (Ex) +4 save vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.

Seamus the 5th level Halfling Bard:

Seamus
Male Halfling Bard 5
CG Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +6; Senses Perception +11
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 20, touch 15, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size)
hp 43 (5d8+10)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +7; +2 vs. fear, +4 vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependant effects
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Masterwork Rapier +4 (1d4-1/18-20/x2)
Ranged +1 Composite shortbow (Str +0) +6 (1d4+2/x3)
Special Attacks Bardic Performance (standard action) (16 rounds/da, Bardic Performance: Countersong, Bardic Performance: Distraction, Bardic Performance: Fascinate (2 targets) (DC 16), Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +2, Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +2
Bard Spells Known (CL 5, +3 melee touch, +7 ranged touch):
2 (3/day) Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics (DC 16)
1 (5/day) Silent Image (DC 15), Hideous Laughter (DC 15), Grease (DC 15), Disguise Self
0 (at will) Message, Dancing Lights, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (DC 14), Read Magic, Detect Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 16/18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18
Base Atk +3; CMB +1; CMD 15
Feats Bard Weapon Proficiencies, Deadly Aim -1/+2, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Traits Indomitable Faith, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +14 (+10 jump), Climb +1, Diplomacy +12, Fly +6, Perception +11, Perform (oratory) +12, Sense Motive +12, Spellcraft +8, Stealth +16, Use Magic Device +12
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ Bardic Knowledge +2, Fearless, Lore Master (1/day), Versatile Oratory +12, Well Versed
Combat Gear +1 Composite shortbow (Str +0), +1 Mithral Chain shirt, Masterwork Rapier; Other Gear Bard's kit, Belt of incredible dexterity +2
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (standard action) (16 rounds/day) - 0/16
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bardic Knowledge +2 (Ex) Add + 2 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (16 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (2 targets) (DC 16) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +2 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Deadly Aim -1/+2 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) Take 10 on knowledge checks, and 1/day take 20 as a standard action.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into combat.
Versatile Oratory +12 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks
Well Versed (Ex) +4 save vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.

Seamus the 7th level Halfling Bard:

Seamus
Male Halfling Bard 7
CG Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +6; Senses Perception +13
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 16, flat-footed 18 (+5 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 59 (7d8+14)
Fort +6, Ref +11, Will +9; +2 vs. fear, +4 vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependant effects
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Masterwork Rapier +4 (1d4-1/18-20/x2)
Ranged +2 Composite shortbow (Str +0) +6/+6 (1d4+5/x3)
Special Attacks Bardic Performance (move action) (20 rounds/day), Bardic Performance: Countersong, Bardic Performance: Distraction, Bardic Performance: Fascinate (3 targets) (DC 17), Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +3, Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +2, Bardic Performance: Suggestion (DC 17)
Bard Spells Known (CL 7, +3 melee touch, +6 ranged touch):
3 (2/day) Haste (DC 17), Summon Monster III
2 (4/day) Glitterdust, Invisibility, Pyrotechnics (DC 16), Alter Self
1 (5/day) Silent Image (DC 15), Unseen Servant, Hideous Laughter (DC 15), Grease (DC 15), Disguise Self
0 (at will) Message, Dancing Lights, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (DC 14), Read Magic, Detect Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 16/18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18
Base Atk +5; CMB +3; CMD 18
Feats Bard Weapon Proficiencies, Deadly Aim -2/+4, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
Traits Indomitable Faith, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +14 (+10 jump), Bluff +10, Climb +1, Diplomacy +14, Fly +6, Intimidate +10, Perception +13, Perform (comedy) +10, Perform (oratory) +14, Sense Motive +14, Spellcraft +10, Stealth +18, Use Magic Device +13
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ Bardic Knowledge +3, Fearless, Lore Master (1/day), Ring of feather falling, Versatile Comedy +10, Versatile Oratory +14, Well Versed
Combat Gear +1 Mithral Chain shirt, +2 Composite shortbow (Str +0), Masterwork Rapier; Other Gear Amulet of natural armor +1, Bard's kit, Belt of incredible dexterity +2, Cloak of resistance +1, Ring of feather falling, Ring of protection +1
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (move action) (20 rounds/day) - 0/20
Feather Fall (Constant) - 0/0
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bardic Knowledge +3 (Ex) Add + 3 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (move action) (20 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (3 targets) (DC 17) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Competence +3 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Bardic Performance: Suggestion (DC 17) (Sp) Make a Suggestion to one Fascinated creature.
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) Take 10 on knowledge checks, and 1/day take 20 as a standard action.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into combat.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Ring of feather falling Feather fall activates if you fall more than 5 ft.
Versatile Comedy +10 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Comedy skill for Bluff or Intimidate checks
Versatile Oratory +14 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks
Well Versed (Ex) +4 save vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependent effects.

Jorin wrote:

Slight correction Elamdri.

I like primary casters, just not prepared primary casters.

I would consider a bard if I can get a build that is not the stupid singing, prancing, musician during battle versions. Most of those are just to rediculous for me to work with.
I cast a spell that helps people during battle, yes.
I sing a poem, tap dance, and play the xylophone during a battle and everyone is so impressed the fight goes my way... no.

Typically, I enjoy perform oratory as I view it as you being so commanding that you inspire your comrades, like a General Patton.

If you look at Seamus, you will see that he's a very well rounded character. He's got some archery power, he's got tons of useful skills, and he's got spells and bardic performance to buff his allies and bring ruin upon his enemies.

Scarab Sages

Jorin wrote:
Choon wrote:
... However, I'm going to disagree with you about shape-changers and summoners. Because you have time in a PbP to get all the numbers right, "zookeeper" builds fit very well. If you must, you can even create an alternate alias for your companion or alternate self and a third for your summons and post AS those things. That can really bring the creature to life instead of just having a floating stat block you there ...

Ok, I can see that. I was jost going by what I read in some other post a while ago. I guess we can put those back on the table for consideration. Do PbP GM's like to see them?

Choon wrote:
... If you RP well, your chances of getting accepted go up, no matter the class or build ...
Uhmm... Don't you generally have to get chosen before any real RP starts?

Sometimes. Sometimes the "tavern scene" is rp'd in the recruitment thread.

As I said, I have limited experience and therefore can't comment on standard practice. Your mileage may vary.

Scarab Sages

Elamdri wrote:
Typically, I enjoy perform oratory as I view it as you being so commanding that you inspire your comrades, like a General Patton. ...

I hear that a lot and I know it is a common theme in novels and fantasy literature.

I will preface by saying, I did not serve in the military. I could not have passed the physical (scoliosis and rotated ankles as well as bat's eyesight). However, I have quite a few friends and relatives who did at many levels in several services. Universally (as in every single one) the actual combat veterans considered all the commanders that tried to give ‘stirring speeches’ as twits to be endured (just hoping they wouldn’t get too many people killed). According to them stirring speeches only work for raw green troops that you have to get fired up to get past their fear or for troops that are serving a cause (like religious warriors). Experienced professional troops consider the ‘cheerleading’ to be a sign the officer doesn’t know what he is doing and is trying to hide the fact. That is a paraphrase from conversations with them.

I also have a problem with the thought that you could perform anything in under 6 seconds that would inspire anyone. But if I look at as sound based magic, I can wrap my head around it.

Elamdri wrote:
... If you look at Seamus, you will see that he's a very well rounded character. He's got some archery power, he's got tons of useful skills, and he's got spells and bardic performance to buff his allies and bring ruin upon his enemies.

Yeah, Seamus looks reasonable. I tend to think of gnomes as more bard-ish than Halflings. But that is minor. I will consider giving something like this a try.

Silver Crusade

Jorin wrote:
Elamdri wrote:
Typically, I enjoy perform oratory as I view it as you being so commanding that you inspire your comrades, like a General Patton. ...

I hear that a lot and I know it is a common theme in novels and fantasy literature.

I will preface by saying, I did not serve in the military. I could not have passed the physical (scoliosis and rotated ankles as well as bat's eyesight). However, I have quite a few friends and relatives who did at many levels in several services. Universally (as in every single one) the actual combat veterans considered all the commanders that tried to give ‘stirring speeches’ as twits to be endured (just hoping they wouldn’t get too many people killed). According to them stirring speeches only work for raw green troops that you have to get fired up to get past their fear or for troops that are serving a cause (like religious warriors). Experienced professional troops consider the ‘cheerleading’ to be a sign the officer doesn’t know what he is doing and is trying to hide the fact. That is a paraphrase from conversations with them.

I also have a problem with the thought that you could perform anything in under 6 seconds that would inspire anyone. But if I look at as sound based magic, I can wrap my head around it.

Well, think about it this way. This is a fantasy game, not real life, and your character isn't some fatass brigadier general, he's f***ing Aragorn talking about how the courage of men will not fail, yadda yadda yadda.

You get the picture.

Jorin wrote:


Elamdri wrote:
... If you look at Seamus, you will see that he's a very well rounded character. He's got some archery power, he's got tons of useful skills, and he's got spells and bardic performance to buff his allies and bring ruin upon his enemies.

Yeah, Seamus looks reasonable. I tend to think of gnomes as more bard-ish than Halflings. But that is minor. I will consider giving something like this a try.

Gnome would work fine, the important things here are the feats and gear and spells.

Scarab Sages

So everyone thinks that bard is the best choice?


For a widely and easily accepted, uncomplicated, balanced, all-round, default go-to character that can easily be tweaked to fill any necessary role...?

I hate to say it, but yes.

Between archetypes, skill, trait and feat choice, you can tweak your basic bard to be anything you like and need.


While I think bard is an excellent choice, I'll play devil's advocate for cleric, despite the fact that you don't like prepared casters.

  • Her diety loves her.
  • She's got medium armor proficiency and deity's favored weapon.
  • The cleric, when built right, can make an excellent controller and buffing character.
  • Spontaneous casting of cure (or Harm) spells means that your daily spell selection isn't critical. So you can pick some fun spells, but if you don't get the opportunity to use them -- well you can always use cures.
  • Channel energy also ameliorates the need to pick cures in all your spell slots.
  • As discussed above, in PbP roleplay is big. The cleric's got built in hooks. The cleric's got built in status.
  • Domains give you ability to add more flavor or abilities to suit.
  • Many parties/DMs really like having a cleric around. Combined with the fact that clerics seem to be in short supply, you have better chances of getting into a game with a cleric.
  • Did I mention her diety loves her?

Scarab Sages

Ok, guess I'll stat up a bard.

Just kinda surprised me, I wouldn't have thought you could get 3 people in a row on these forums to agree that caves are dark. =)

Scarab Sages

therealthom wrote:

While I think bard is an excellent choice, I'll play devil's advocate for cleric, despite the fact that you don't like prepared casters.

...list of stuff...

I am not totally against prepared casters, but I was getting irritated with the amount of bookkeeping I was finding necessary with my wizard last player campaign.

Do you really see cleric as that much better than oracle?

What god/domains would you recommend for a controller/buffer cleric? What about debuffer cleric?

hmmm... I will have to see if there was a guide to clerics, I can't remember seeing one.

Silver Crusade

Jorin wrote:
therealthom wrote:

While I think bard is an excellent choice, I'll play devil's advocate for cleric, despite the fact that you don't like prepared casters.

...list of stuff...

I am not totally against prepared casters, but I was getting irritated with the amount of bookkeeping I was finding necessary with my wizard last player campaign.

Do you really see cleric as that much better than oracle?

What god/domains would you recommend for a controller/buffer cleric? What about debuffer cleric?

hmmm... I will have to see if there was a guide to clerics, I can't remember seeing one.

Desna is the best deity in the game domain wise.

Liberation domain allows you to act as though you had freedom of movement and later lets you emit a 30 foot radius of freedom of movement

If you have a party member like archer, Luck domain lets you allow that player to roll every d20 dice and take the better roll for a round, 3+wis modifier. You also get a free re-roll once per day.

Travel Domain gives you 10 feet of movement speed, allows you to ignore difficult terrain, gives you a teleportation supernatural ability, and has spells like longstrider, dimension door, and teleportation on it's spell list.

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