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The characters are assumed to be training during their downtime. The player is not the character, and would not have intimate knowledge of what the character knows. To enforce such a rule simply empowers the more creative players, and those who have more real life knowledge about certain things.
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The characters are assumed to be training during their downtime.I think this is the anwers all edition have given to this question
It is.
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I'd go with what Clint said.
Basically, just say that your deity has seen your deeds and accomplishments, and has judged you worthy enough to access the next tier of spells.
What sort of answer does the GM expect, anyhow? "Well, I got the XP needed to level by fighting, in fighting I hit things a lot, and my new bonus feat makes me better at hitting things, so obviously I got it by hitting things a lot." Or are you expected to seek out a new wise old mentor with every level to teach you the hidden, traditional, ancient arts of Weapon Focus (Greatsword)?
You wake up and you begin your morning prayers and you are suddenly filled with a strange sensation. You can hear your gods voice... It is whispering in your ear and suddenly you can see his power that much clearer. You are that much closer to him and you are rewarded with new knowledge of spells and what not.
All you have to do is scream "I see the light! Iomedea has shown me the way!"
You wake up and you begin your morning prayers and you are suddenly filled with a strange sensation. You can hear your gods voice... It is whispering in your ear and suddenly you can see his power that much clearer. You are that much closer to him and you are rewarded with new knowledge of spells and what not.
All you have to do is scream "I see the light! Iomedea has shown me the way!"
"Do you see the light?" "Yes! Jesus H. tap-dancing Christ, I have seen the light!"
You could always hold an all-night prayer vigil in your local temple or something.
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I remember a previous campaign in which I was required to provide flavor for every special material, or magical item I got.
I wrote a one page backstory for every item.
Excessive backstory is not more roleplaying.
RP happens in session, and as long as you have a somewhat logical explanation for new feats, spells, skills, whatnot, it should be handwaived.
Ask him, "when does the backstory end, and the RP begins?"
My GM want us to roleplay more, ex: when we level up and get a feat. He wants us to explain how did we work our way up to get it. In the case of a cleric, achieving a new level of spells, as he gets them all. How can i explain to him how i automaticaly get them?
I would do something like that if my entire group did, which will never happen. Rather than explain when I level up, I would make mention between level-ups what I was doing during down time. As a DM though, I would never require it.
Its good that your DM brought up what he wants to see more of in the game. The DM happens to be an important member of the group. I hope that everyone in the group is grown-up enough to respect that. I don't like to advocate kicking people out of groups the way that some forum members do, but conversations like these need to happen, and sometimes it leads to someone electing to part ways to find like-minded players.
I am assuming this was the turtle GM/player.
Ciarian: the players are me, my girlfriend and cousin, the gm is a friend. But the group is trying to roleplay like he want's as much as possible. We actually play 4th ed and the roleplaying is not good and there is a lot of out gaming saying to others.... I need healing, or even anwser for the gm which is rude. So yes in PF, we put an effort in roleplaying.
My group is pretty bad at times about table-talk. Most of us have character voices to distinguish from out of character talk though. When one of us began a new campaign a few years back, he actually stipulated that out of character talk was to stop completely (we could usually get away with a short sentence though). It was extreme, but had to be addresses cause it was getting over the top. I think we have a reasonable medium now. The funny thing about it though was that he was perhaps the worst for out of character talk during combat.
I like the fingers crossed thing.
Hold up your hand with your fingers crossed, and talk out of character.Don't do it, and you said it in character.
I once used a similar system where there was a small sign that was the OOC talk. You had to hold it up to say something OOC, and there was only one sign available at the table.
PF (and most tabletop games) can't be looked at too closely through a roleplaying lens. The fact is, plenty of it might make no sense, but to restrict someone heavily because of that will ruin the game.
For example, consider skills. Should it be required for a character to explain why they are able to put ranks into a given skill? Would make more "roleplay sense" for a character to have to actually use a skill or spend time practicing it, just to put a rank into it at level up?
Swim, for most campaigns, then becomes almost inaccessible.
But it goes deeper: what if a level 6 character, never having a chance to swim (maybe a single rank from his backstory before first level), goes for a dip? Can he boost it up to 7 ranks when he next dings? Or can he only put in a rank, leaving him only slightly less worse off than he was? This requires too much out of players, it slows down the game, and it frankly makes much more sense to hand wave that stuff, assuming the characters themselves are handling the necessary work to be able to progress in the directions they do once they reach a new level.
EDIT: Not to say tabletop games aren't one of THE best ways to roleplay. All I am saying is, all of the people involved (players and the GM) have to accept that there are sacrifices made to both the roleplay and the mechanics for them to mesh well.
The worst offenders are laptops and phones.
I hate turning to a fellow player to speak, and seeing him/her screwing with their phone.
They always respond out of character.
I have a pathfinder app on my phone that I use during game to quickly look up rules (it has a nice search function). It has all the information available online (pfsrd and paizo OGL stuff).
lol. To be fair, I only pick up my phone during game when there is a rules question.
I figured.
Just ranting.
No worries. I will point out that PFS games tend to have very little OOC, primarily because it's on a time limit (4 hours) and because those who gather are acquaintances (due to repeated PFS games) and not friends. It's refreshing.
I play currently with a 3.5 DM who sorta meets in the middle on this, which I admit I kind of like.
For example, if you are a fighter you'll know to do fighter things, either instinctually through repeated combat or you've honed your skills enough to master that thing you saw that other fighter do back in fighter college. Most feats and stuff aren't an issue. The catch typically comes when you want to multi-class/prestige or pick a niche feat or skill(like iajutsu focus out of class for example). Then you have to find someone to teach you it, or have some experience facing off against it to mimic it. You can make a knowledge check to find out about it, but you'll have to actually track someone down for it.
It didn't make things standard leveling tedious, or give creative players an edge. It made taking these things a little more special than a simple mechanic.
To Amazonnia: In a recent game my Cleric hit level five (fire domain, preferred spell fireball) as we were heading to fight a big boss type monster, My cleric explained that Sarenrae had blessed her with a new spell today that would come in handy.
Worked out well when my last fireball for the day finished off the monster. Mind you using that reasoning EVERY level might get old but there you go.
Ask the GM; WHY does he want more roleplaying for stuff that isn't happening live, in-game. I know when I've done that as a GM I'm mining for ideas.
Yep, I said it; sometimes I want to riff on or improvise something cool for the game but I'm completely fried from a month of work and I show up at the table tapped out. So as the party is telling me the stuff they've bought or acquired w/their new level I say "oh, so you have a +1 sword; where did that come from?" they tell me they bought it, and away we go.
It takes some teeth-pulling since my players are sometimes not very RP focused. Eventually I get to the "the priest at the local church blessed it in a ritual" or whatever. Then suddenly the priest is there, at the door of the tavern. "Friend fighter, we have some terrible news and we were hoping you could help..." and thus their backstory for the item provides a plot hook just as easily as their PC backstory.
Other than that I don't really ask how my players got stuff.
My GM gave me the best of examples, in the movie lord of the rings, does everyone has a magic weapon and do they only relly on that weapon or do they use stuff on the ground, use kicks ect. Magic items should be unique in a way and hes right. Our dm will give us sometimes a special quest for a player which will find a magic item or anything to go with his back story. Also, if the player starts using his weapon all the time without being creative, he will sunder it in a way
So, is your GM giving everyone Improved Unarmed Strike, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything, and Improved Trip as free bonus feats, or are you expected to choose between spending a turn making a low-damage, hard-to-hit-with, provoking attack every encounter or losing your sword forever?
And does this apply to wizards as well as martials, or are spellcasters free to toss good spells every turn while the barbarian needs to set aside his greatsword to make an inept attempt at kicking the opponent in the shins?
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There's a fine line between asking that players put a bit more effort into their description than just saying "I attack" and asking players to do incredibly stupid things for reasons that make no sense in or out of universe due to a completely meta concept of "If you don't attack with table legs instead of swords enough, assassins will be hired to murder your sword".
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My GM gave me the best of examples, in the movie lord of the rings, does everyone has a magic weapon and do they only relly on that weapon or do they use stuff on the ground, use kicks ect. Magic items should be unique in a way and hes right. Our dm will give us sometimes a special quest for a player which will find a magic item or anything to go with his back story. Also, if the player starts using his weapon all the time without being creative, he will sunder it in a waySo, is your GM giving everyone Improved Unarmed Strike, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything, and Improved Trip as free bonus feats, or are you expected to choose between spending a turn making a low-damage, hard-to-hit-with, provoking attack every encounter or losing your sword forever?
And does this apply to wizards as well as martials, or are spellcasters free to toss good spells every turn while the barbarian needs to set aside his greatsword to make an inept attempt at kicking the opponent in the shins?
Yep carrying more than one weapon is impossible, and obviously the GM uses this "trick" only to keep the martial class peasantry firmly under the iron-shod heel of the wizard Illuminati obviously.
Gee, this sword I have has a long, rich history, I better use it to hit stuff all the time, otherwise it will implode.
Ok that's a better example of how it is stupid =]!
There's a fine line between asking that players put a bit more effort into their description than just saying "I attack" and asking players to do incredibly stupid things for reasons that make no sense in or out of universe due to a completely meta concept of "If you don't attack with table legs instead of swords enough, assassins will be hired to murder your sword".
For the record I think a GM giving everyone, "Improved Unarmed Strike, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything, and Improved Trip as free bonus feats", would make for a hilarious campaign. I think I'll steal that.
Yep carrying more than one weapon is impossible, and obviously the GM uses this "trick" only to keep the martial class peasantry firmly under the iron-shod heel of the wizard Illuminati obviously.
Any fighter worth his salt is already carrying multiple weapons - at the very least one melee and one ranged. But no mention was made of using different weapons - just of using improvised and unarmed attacks in addition to actual weapons.
And if magic items are rare and special, then yes, I'll be using my magical flaming Excalibur that I received as a gift from the elf hermit or whatever instead of the axe I bought from the village smithy. Wouldn't you? Why would my character not use the enchanted weapon that destiny has thrust upon her?
The intent clearly isn't to hurt martials and buff casters, but unless the rule is being extended to requiring casters to use their material components as improvised ranged weapons every encounter, that's certainly an effect it will have.
For the record I think a GM giving everyone, "Improved Unarmed Strike, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything, and Improved Trip as free bonus feats", would make for a hilarious campaign. I think I'll steal that.
That would actually be hilarious, but I don't see any indication that it's being done here.
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For the record I think a GM giving everyone, "Improved Unarmed Strike, Catch Off-Guard, Throw Anything, and Improved Trip as free bonus feats", would make for a hilarious campaign. I think I'll steal that.That would actually be hilarious, but I don't see any indication that it's being done here.
Who cares that's a better topic anyways! I think it would mix well with my other stupid campaign idea. The 14 Array, where all players start with a nonadjustable 14 in every stat plus and minus racial bonuses.
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Perhaps, I respect my magic sword too much to use it on petty foes.
Does my respect for my weapon, destroy it.
I would be tempted to just play a Breaker Barbarian in such a campaign.
But isn't that bad for business? His monopoly on breaking has been usurped by all these self destructing swords. Sounds like your breaker might have an epic quest to solve!
Yar.
... use their material components as improvised ranged weapons every encounter ...
...and now I really want to make a character who does exactly this! Probably be some kind of martial character with lots of ranks in spellcraft and knowledge arcana so he can scream the spell names at the top of his lungs while he tosses the material components at his foes.
...but then I am reminded of THIS.
~P
My GM gave me the best of examples, in the movie lord of the rings, does everyone has a magic weapon and do they only relly on that weapon or do they use stuff on the ground, use kicks ect. Magic items should be unique in a way and hes right. Our dm will give us sometimes a special quest for a player which will find a magic item or anything to go with his back story. Also, if the player starts using his weapon all the time without being creative, he will sunder it in a way
Pretty much. In the Fellowship we have the single most powerful Artifact in the world, the 3rd most powerful artifact, a artifact sword, two powerful relic named swords, 4 bane shrt swords, a Staff of Power, the Invulnerable Coat of Arnt, and a host of other things. The party was loaded.
And they had no problems picking up a few things then and there, either.
As far as that last line, I'd "sunder" my relationship with that DM.
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I have never asked my players to RP their training. If anything, this is something the GM should describe to the players!
I have asked my players to tell me what feat or class level (if they are changing classes) they are taking next, and then if appropriate, I work in mentions of their improvement in this area. For instance, if they were taking cleave, I might mention that the party notices player X's attacks are getting stronger, so sometimes he cuts right through one opponent before nearly hitting another.
There are so many cool things players can RP, but I have to say, this is not one I would have chosen to require...
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Seriously, having PCs terrified that they may not have used their magic sword enough actually takes away from RP.
You are forced to use all these metagame tactics just to get by.
There is also no RP in all these novellas for each feat, skill, and weapon choices.
RP happens in session, not on your sheet.
With all this craziness you have to worry about, who has time to RP?
Your DM may end up with the opposite of what he wants.
Why not put forth rewards for RP?
Not needless punishments for needless things.
To me, RP is about actual characterization and personalities, not about which stick I hit things with. Seems like a pretty poor attempt at enforcing RP.
Actually, if anything, this is terrible for RP because the GM is basically telling you how to play your character. "No, your character doesn't keep using her magic sword. Using the magic sword all the time is boring. Your character chooses to drop the magic sword and punch the heavily armored opponent instead. I make the decisions about your actions here. Do not argue with me about this or you'll never get the sword back."
Seriously, having PCs terrified that they may not have used their magic sword enough actually takes away from RP.
Think you misread it - using the magic sword too much is what makes it implode. Which in my opinion is even worse.
Too much, or too little, it's all bad.
When a DM makes all the choices, he ends up playing with himself, with some friends over to watch.
+1.
I have never asked my players to RP their training. If anything, this is something the GM should describe to the players!
I have asked my players to tell me what feat or class level (if they are changing classes) they are taking next, and then if appropriate, I work in mentions of their improvement in this area. For instance, if they were taking cleave, I might mention that the party notices player X's attacks are getting stronger, so sometimes he cuts right through one opponent before nearly hitting another.
Yoink! This idea has just been stolen. I'm already doing this with long-term decisions, why haven't I been doing it with skills/feats/etc for next level?
For ex: one of my PCs has the Animal domain and will be picking up an animal companion. She has described how she'd like it to be a big cat. In their recent adventure they began wandering across rugged wooded uplands; I began dropping hints like spotting large padded cat tracks seemingly following their trail and one morning waking to a freshly killed deer laid out for her like a gift.
Now the only challenge is having the players get back to me with what they expect they will take next level...